Need advice quickly one trailer purchase

[Gary Fowler]

I have a deal going on a 20 foot car hauler with hydraulic surge brakes that will be used in Texas, Louisiana and Arkansas on the pickup of my Kubota B26 TLB (4000 pounds)
While trying to access trailer regs for Ark, which so far has been unsuccessful on actual state internet site, I came across an eHow statement that surge brakes arent legal in some states and that on trailers over 3000 separate braking system is required. Before I buy this trailer with intention to immediately hook to it and travel thru Ark, La and back thru Texas with the B26 on top, I was hoping that someone with towing knowledge can fill me in. I dont know that the trailer will weigh 3000 but I am sure it is going to be close at that length.
Any info is greatly appreciated and need to know for sure before Monday night as that is when the deal is going down.

From what I understand the weight requirement is calculated based on design and not on actual weight of the trailer on scales

 

[Gary Fowler]

I finally found a trailer towing site (not state gov. site) that said that every state required 4 wheel brakes on all trailers over 1500 lbs Tare weight. In looking at trailer sales sites, I have not seen any of them selling trailers with 4wheel brakes regardless of length of trailers and some not even 2 wheel brakes so I guess anyone buying them is illegal. Maybe their trailers are so light that they are exempt from brakes under most states laws, except California which said 500kg and over needed brakes on all wheels. I still have the question on hydraulic surge brakes if they are legal. I guess I will go ahead with the purchase and if I find it needs brakes, I will put them on. I think Diamond Pilot indicated in a post that they can be retrofit to almost any trailer axle easily and in just a few hours.

 

[rambler]

The surge brakes are frownd upon but more or less allowed for outfits like U-Haul which sorta need to use that type.

I have an older but good car trailer, only 1 axle with electric brakes, like you say supposed to be on both axles, but most I see only have one... I don't have the trailer licenced, don't need to n a farm use trailer in my state, so suppose I'm all right.

Not a good answer to your questions....


--->Paul

 

[Skyco]

I finally found a trailer towing site (not state gov. site) that said that every state required 4 wheel brakes on all trailers over 1500 lbs Tare weight. In looking at trailer sales sites, I have not seen any of them selling trailers with 4wheel brakes regardless of length of trailers and some not even 2 wheel brakes so I guess anyone buying them is illegal.

I wouldn't trust the site saying EVERY state requires brakes on 4 wheels over 1500 lbs. That is incorrect information. Heck SC doesn't even require ANY brakes until over something like 3000 lbs or over 40% of tow vehicle weight. There is also no law here requiring brakes on all 4 until over 3000 lbs. Personally I would not own a trailer that didn't have brakes on all 4. If it is heavy enough to need 4 wheels then it needs 4 brakes too IMO.

There have been some legal issues with surge brakes IIRC, I've had them on boat trailers and they worked ok and I tolerated them because of the complications of running electric brakes on boat trailers due to water immersion.
For a land only trailer I don't want them, electric are MUCH better, fully adjustable (via the controller) on the fly for one thing. Personally I would not buy a surge brake trailer unless it was at least $500 less than the same trailer with 4 wheel electric brakes, but that is just me.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I was just following a link about putting electric brakes on and Diamond Pilot posted a link to R&P trailer that has parts for adding electric brakes. Looks like I can add brakes to the second axle for about an hours labor and $140 or so in green backs.
The trailer is 20 foot car hauler with advertised 3500 # axles but they are 6 hole rims so that tells me that they are 5200# rated with new 6 ply tires, new brakes and new hydraulic master cylinder and the negotiated price is $1300 so I think I can put the brakes on the other axle if it doesnt have 4 wheel brakes (dont know yet on that but suspect only has one axle) and still have a nice 20 ft. trailer for around 1500. I dont plan to haul a bunch of weight, in fact my 1500 crew cab chevy will be about maxed out with the little B26 and the trailer. Mainly bought the trailer for the one trip to go get the tractor in Louisiana and transport back to Ark. but it will be handy to have in case I have to take it or my brother in laws NH 2030 in for repairs. Dealers want $200 to pick them up and I guess another 200 to deliver. For the one time required, my BIL got a neighbor to to it for gas money but I dont like to impose too much on a neighbor.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have seen 3500# units with 6lug. Also 6 ply tires are not up to the task for 5200# axles, you need 8 ply.

Are you sure the brakes are hydro?

Chris

 

[s219]

Only some states require brakes on all axles. But a lot of trailer manufacturers make them that way in order to have a "50 state" trailer. The same trailers will also have lights laid out to be legal in all states (for example, some states require tail lights at the very back, others allow them to be set forward a bit).

 

[Gary Fowler]

Yes it is surge brakes see photo.
While 8 ply tires may be the preferred tire for 5200 # axle, I do believe it would be the load rating that would decide the loading and not just the plys by them selves. I bow to your rather extensive trailering knowledge, but requiring 8 ply tires for 5200# when some 3500# have 4 ply sounds a bit like overkill for a tire that only needs to support 2600 max load. Granted car tires are not the best for trailers but many of them work just fine with them on.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I just finished doing some quick down and dirty net searching regarding ply rating and most of the tires now dont have a ply rating just a load rating. I did find one that said Load range D is old 6 ply and Load range E is old 8 ply but nothing that now states how many plys are in these tire in the spec or description. Much depends on the size as to how much weight they can safely carry as larger sizes can support upward of 3000# in D rating while some E ratings wont carry what the D rating will in the same diameter. Not really knowing at this point what the size or rating on the tires are, is pretty much futile in looking for info.
Owner says it is 3500# axles with 6 ply tires but didnt specify the rating so I will have to wait and see what I get, but all the info on trailers I have seen says the 6 hole rims are 5200# even though Diamond Pilot says that he has seen 6 hole in 3500#. I dont know is there is a standard for this or is perhaps only the newer trailers use the 5,6 & 8 holes patterns so as to relate to axle capacity of 3500, 5200 and 7000 rating. Then again, maybe it is like the definition of SCUT vs CUT so as everyone has their own perception.
Regardless of the axle rating whether 3500 or 5200 and tire size or rating, as long as it is 6 ply tire in at least a 235 70 15 it will carry that little Kubota B26 4000# TLB

 

[Diamondpilot]

In my experience of buying 100's of trailer tires 4 ply is LR B. 6 is C, 8 is D, E is 10.

6 lug are most always 5,200 or 6,000 but there are some odd ball 6 lug 3,500.

8 lug are always 7,000 or 8,000.

Most 6 ply C rated tires I have seen are 1,750# max load each.

Chris

 

[rasimmo]

Tire Tech Information - Load Range/Ply Rating Identification

This is the load range and ply information. The actual rating depends on the manufacturer. There is a specific range for each different letter, but I can't find that real easily.

 

[bcp]

Load rating according to code number on tire sidewall:

Tire Tech Information - How to Read Speed Rating, Load Index & Service Descriptions

Bruce

 

[Gary Fowler]

From my brief internet search, I believe you are most certainly correct. If the owner put 6 ply tires on it then even if the axles are 5200#, he limited the weight to 3500# axle rating. He does advertise it as 3500 which is likely why he put load range D tire on it thinking that it was lower rating than it is.
Is there any other way to tell what the load rating is on an axle other than the bolt circle?
Also we kinda go away from the original question, is the hydraulic surge brake legal for a braking system in Ark, Texas and Louisiana? OTHER STATES?

 

[jeffsw6]

Is this a DIY trailer or one made by a trailer company? If a company, it will most likely have a VIN and a weight rating on the trailer itself, but if not, you should be able to contact that company and have them look up what it was originally rated for.

If it is a DIY it is possible the axle is 5200# but the person does not know if the frame and brakes are up to a heavy load?

I understand why you are real interested in a 20' tandem trailer for $1500 but why hasn't the guy already found a local buyer, maybe it is junk? You won't really know until you spend time and fuel going there.

 

[Gary Fowler]

You guys have convinced me that I should really look at more options on this. After reviewing the photos, I noted that the wrap tongue doesnt go all the way to the fenders like all the trailers I have seen but stops about 2-3 feet from them which looks a little cheapo cost saving to me and weakens the frame considerably. Also with the 6 ply tires it is limited to their capacity regardless of the axle rating. A few other things make me a little nervous in that he couldnt find the title and there is no current license on it (Ark has a permanent plate) so maybe it was never registered or might be some other problem. And then the surge brake issue, just too many issues with it to feel comfortable with. I will just bit the bullet and look for a new one or at least one with all the paperwork and better info on it.

 

[yandeereguy]

surge brakes are hard on transmissions IMHO. the back and forth, 2 or 3 inches to take up the slack is brutal on the powertrain.
I ruined my f150 trans because of this and it cost me ALOT to fix I will never own another trailer with surge brakes, electric all the way.. My 20' haulmark had electrics and pulled behind a cummins/ram like she was'nt even there smooth going and smooth stopping

 

[Gary Fowler]

I never thought about that aspect of it. Really glad I passed on it now. Likely PO'ed the owner but if he hadnt dilly dallied around on delivery I would likely be stuck with it now. Sometimes you get lucky when waiting but I cant say the same for the seller. At least maybe he got the load of trash out of it that was holding him up on the sale.

 

[WM75Guy]

Rear axle brakes only and surge brakes are allowed per the Texas Transportation Code.

Sec. 541.401. MISCELLANEOUS TERMS. (4) "Gross vehicle weight" means the weight of a vehicle and the weight of its load.

Sec. 547.401. BRAKES REQUIRED. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, or combination of those vehicles shall be equipped with brakes that comply with this chapter. (b) A trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer is not required to have brakes if: (1) its gross weight is 4,500 pounds or less; or (2) its gross weight is heavier than 4,500 pounds but not heavier than 15,000 pounds, and it is drawn at a speed of not more than 30 miles per hour.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 547.402. OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE OF BRAKES. (a) Required brakes shall operate on each wheel of a vehicle except: (1) special mobile equipment; (2) a vehicle that is towed as a commodity when at least one set of the towed vehicle's wheels is on the roadway, if the combination of vehicles complies with the performance requirements of this chapter; and (3) a trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer with a gross weight heavier than 4,500 pounds but not heavier than 15,000 pounds drawn at a speed of more than 30 miles per hour, if the brakes operate on both wheels of the rear axle. (b) A truck or truck-tractor that has at least three axles is not required to have brakes on the front wheels, but must have brakes that: (1) operate on the wheels of one steerable axle if the vehicle is equipped with at least two steerable axles; and (2) comply with the performance requirements of this chapter. (c) A trailer or semitrailer that has a gross weight of 15,000 pounds or less may use surge or inertia brake systems to satisfy the requirements of Subsection (a). (d) Brakes shall be maintained in good working order and adjusted to operate on wheels on each side of the vehicle as equally as practicable.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have moved on from that and am now looking at new stuff. NOW the other issue is do I want to by a lower priced 3500# GVW trailer that will haul anything but my LS or go ahead and spend an extra $1500 and get this car hauler one that will haul anything I can legally pull with my truck and then some.

20ft Heavy Duty 20ft Car Hauler 12,000 GVW - $2995 (Porter)
83in x 20ft - 6000lb EZ Lube axles with 1 brake axle - dove tail - 16in tires 10ply rated - comes with spare

Does this look like a good price, it is the only one I have found with 6000# axles anywhere in Texas or Ark.

 

[dynasim]

If you wait and watch on craigslist, you can find a 7k car hauler for 1500-2000. Many times, I have seen them for ~1000$, but was never able to get to them in time.

The key is having the cash ready, because resellers hunt for them, then mark them up to 2200$ around here. You only have hours to snag them.

Best Regards
Chris