Mulching with Kubota 080

[Robbie Hegwood]

Hey Landwise how is your new super doing? Does it have enough ponies? From seeing them here and there they seem to be built like tanks.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Ok the design is good, 30 inch cut and 1000#, now for the technical questions. What is the actual flow of the 080? at what pressure? i am guessing @ 24gpm at 3000? can it be tuned up? what is the biggest obsticle(sp)?

 

[Landwise]

Best geuss is arond 27.8 gpm from a piston pump at 2980 psi. The only obstcale so far is the weight of the current unit. It throws off the balance, and I am sure the pins would not take this kind of abuse for long. Other than that, it is awesome.

 

[DirtyWorks]

what is the biggest obsticle(sp)?

i was refering to turning up the pressure. how does supertrak get their flow and pressure so high. there has to be parts that can resonably exchanged...besides the engine

what are your thoughts on the auxillary powerplant? costs? expectations? weight? problems besides the extended tailswing? is there anyone that manufactures one for the 080?

i did see a case yesterday on the interstate..a 130 I believe and it did have a powerplant on the rear. i need to go back and watch it mulch and study the aux power.

thanks

 

[DirtyWorks]

Best geuss is arond 27.8 gpm from a piston pump at 2980 psi.

that is about 43.5 HHP. from a 65 HP engine. mabey turning the pressure up to 4500psi would work. then we would be @65HHP!!!!!! Right now i have the asv turned up and the results have been noticeable. from 65 to 99 HHP! with a 5 foot head that weighs 2K plus. this will be a 2.5 foot head with 1K lbs. sounds good on paper...

as far as the pressure, mabey a gauge in the cab plumbed to the #2 hydraulic line and mounted on a pillar. kinda like the one on the magnum head that would be better than a three light system imho

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

I think there are two answers for the 080.
First is use a head that uses available hyd power more efficently. That's in the works. Being built as we speak!!
Second, Fred with Denis Cimaf touch on this subject a little bit. You can install a priority valve that directs most of the hyd flow to the head. I'm not sure how much more flow you would get, it would just depend on the tractor. But I think the 080 has enough power and hyd pump capacity to gain some additional flow. But the only catch here is modifing the excavator and possibly voiding the warranty. Which would make option one a safer route.
Also I'm not sure how much additional weight the 080 frame would handle. I know when I was running my 161 w/head if you were on too much of an incline swinging the turit became slow becuase of the weight. Just a thought.

 

[Terra Firma Scott]

Right now i have the asv turned up and the results have been noticeable.

How do you turn it up Dirty? is it only increasing pressure and flow remaining same?

 

[Mowermoney]

Let me jump in here. I have never used an Excavator mounted mulcher, but I have been to Demos. My thoughts are: 1. Too slow.
2. Too expensive for use on flat lands wher a skid steer can go much faster.
3. Big Investment.
4. More suited for ditches, road, pond, and stream banks.

I am more convinced that the way to go is the skid steer mounted mower(Ambusher, Davco, etc. used ahead of a fixed tooth mulcher. I am getting 5 to 6 acres per 6 hr. day with the Ambusher and the same out of the Mulcher behind the Mower. The stuff I'm in is 30 year old pine thinned to a 60 Basal area with two year sweetgum mixed with burned older growth gum, black cherry and cedar. The dead stuff breaks down with the Ambusher. You just need to go over it once with the mulcher to get a good grind.

The Ambusher brings $85/hr with the mulcher getting $120 for a total of $205/hr. That works out to $ 200-250/ acre. Since I'm charging by the hour, the landowner is getting a great deal. If I had bid the job, I would have bid at least $500/acre.

The tract is 136 acres. We'll end up doing about 40 acres of "criticle" area.

This is a great winter time job. The dust would be horrible in summer.

The land owner told me today he probably will be ok with just the ambusher, but wants to see how the finish looks behind the mulcher in the thicker areas before he decides. The thin hilltops look good with just the Ambusher.

I would post pics if I knew how.

Mowermoney

 

[DirtyWorks]

Mower sounds like you have yourself a sweet job going on. here I get @ $1500 per day for one machine and $2500 per day if I run both but there is no way I could get over 3 acres per day running both. The stuff is just too thick here. about 2000+ stems per acre all in the 4"-6" range 25' high average. Chinese Privet and Chinese Tallow "popcorn" trees. Even the guys with Gyrotrac GT-25's cant get one acre per hour avereage. I guess if I had only 2 year old growth in thinned pines I could though

Prices definately vary from acre to acre all throughout the south. I don't think I could tell someone what it would cost per acre over the phone without looking at the land, but I do get asked alot!

Does anyone in any area price flat rate per acre? Dozer and or excavator?Here I get beat all the time if you are just pricing clearing especially if you burn, but I stay busy doing the custom work and jobs that just want land underbrushed. Especially after they see my sites after a rain and the dirt is still there. I also offer free grassing of all jobs. Rye right now. In a few weeks our jobs look great with no wash of the seeds!

 

[TMTS]

I have only bid on two jobs on a per acre basis- one job I got, the other I didn't. It was a unique job for the Nature Conservancy it a pine barren habitat- flat, no rocks (yes there are a few spots in New Hampshire where there is no granite) and the same type of vegitation throughout..

the rest of the work I do is per hour...and I will not quote over the phone...takes me a little more effort to look at every job before-hand, but I like to look at access, vegitation, etc...I have turned down more than a few jobs because it was too rough for the fecon/ASV...

-tmts

 

[Landwise]

I will try to answer as many as I can remember. The excavator gets a little more per hour, and is less productive than my ASV's--

#1 Some customers just like to watch it work.(It's cooler than an ASV)
#2 Less ground disturbance than a skid steer. I can cut 35 to 40' without moving back and forth or turning my tracks (Great it wetlands.)
#3 If I get stuck, I can pull myself out.
#4 If the ASV gets stuck, and the winch won't do it, I can dig it out.

As far as turning it up, or valving it, the 080 does not need to loose anymore drawbar force with this much weight on the end---REMEMBER this head is a prototype, not made for the 080 so the right head would be better to judge productivity.

I do not know of anyone making a power pack for the 080, but, necesity is the mother of all invention. thinking about a 65 John Deere engine welded into a custom box on the back. It would run it's own Hyd pump and house it's own resivoir. Still in the thinking stages....... Might just buy a JD 120 or 160

Supertracks- I let my dealer sell the only one they had in stock. My ASV deal did not go through, and I can't afford to buy the ST until at least one of the ASV's are sold. I don't think it will be anymore productive than an ASV, just more dependable.

Turning up the ASV-- I have heard that it is awesome, but I have also heard that most of the turned up ASV's end up on fire. I wold like someone to tell me excatly how to do it. I don't think I will turn them up much, but who knows.

Cutting head- I love my Loftness with sharp teeth, but I have been watching the Tomax/Cimaf. I am trying to decide if it is worth the $30,000 + and replacng the teeth every 120 hours (@ $1200). I think it might after seeing the performance, but I just don't know yet.....

 

[DirtyWorks]

Turning up the ASV-- I have heard that it is awesome, but I have also heard that most of the turned up ASV's end up on fire.

That is only because they are working and not in the shop waiting on repairs ever few days

 

[Terra Firma Scott]

Ya know, Unless I missed the reply-I still havent gotten anyone to chime in on HOW TO TURN ONE UP....And dont tell me its just a screw!...lol...

Is it some sort of interchangeable orifice at the main pump that increases hydraulic pressure or something? Does turning one up affect the machines hydraulic lines burst pressure etc..? Or is it a computer chip/Map like what you can do to a turbo diesel truck....???

Some one please enlighten me on the term "turn one up" since we keep hearing of it....

 

[QwikDraw]

No really...it is just a screw. Dirty emailed me some pictures...best way to figure it out. I deleted them. If he doesn't still have them I will be tearing down the RC tomorrow to fix some busted parts and could take some pictures.

 

[Terra Firma Scott]

Appreciate that Quik-

Seriously only a screw adjustment WOW...Figured there was more to it than that...I know somewhere I did see a CHIP for more Engine HP for the ECM/PCM on bigger CATS, KUBOTAS,ETC...just cant rember where...internet...

Dont know if my 60 HP machine needs to be pushed more than I do already but when that fine day comes for a bigger machine, I may have the knowledge to turn it up......

 

[DirtyWorks]

It really is just screw turn. You first adjust pump and then reliefs so that it does not constantly bypass. All of your hoses should be rated at 5000-5500 psi so there is only the o-rings to worry about on the valve body. only had a problem with one and it was a fault of the guy that put it together at the factory. I did honestly loose all my pics along with the ones of the magnum with knives and my old job pics.

Hey Ted start a thread on turning one up and we can keep it in one place as soon as you look under the cab!

 

[DirtyWorks]

to fix some busted parts.

What happened?

 

[QwikDraw]

Well.....

Since I never finished that forestry cage and I replace my rear weight last month ($500) because I cracked it earlier in the year, it was bound to happen.

I cracked the new one backing in to a big ole' rock and then backed in to another tree this week and...managed to shear off all the bolt on my right fuel tank...AGAIN. I did that too earlier in the year and I know that the alternator, the AC compressor, the gaurd on the radiator, the muffler (which the mounted had cracked off last time) all have to come out to get to the tank lines. Then I have to pull the tank, extract the bolts and put it all back together...should be an all day thing.

I guess it is alright since we got more snow last night and it needs a few days to (hopefully) melt off some. AND my Rock Hound 30HD should be here today or tomorrow...

Oh yeah, I might just finish that rear bumper gaurd that is 90% done too...

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

It is always something with mulching tractors. And in your case it sounds like when it breaks it breaks big. This is the point where you start seeing the engineering built into the other machines and especially the larger units like the Rayco's and Fecons. You should like your Brushhound they are pretty neat.

I hope you get humpty dumpty put back together( that's what we called my ASV when it was broke!!!) These tractor need to be built like tanks in the rear.

 

[slomow]

What kind of production are you guys getting with the 30ex's I would be mulching small brush less than 8 tall and under 3 inches.