Mowing mowing with the bucket on/off

[Sub-Cadet68]

I have a CC 5264D & Sitrex 48" finishing deck.

I'm very confident mowing my slightly sloped backyard side-hill with front weights only.

If the FEL is on.... straight up & down or not at all. lol

 

[coloradotrout]

Are folks taking the entire FEL off -- or just the bucket?

I have a JD4100 w/ 60" 3 point finish mower. I have been mowing for 5 years with the FEL on. Recently a bearing in the MFWD went out. I'm wondering if the extra load is partly the cause. I'm thinking to try mowing without the bucket/FEL. Also, I have to be in 4WD nearly all the time to get enough traction, so much so, that generally I just run in 4WD all the time. Maybe the bucket/FEL off would help.

I like the idea of having the bucket ON when mowing in uncharted territory, but most of the time I'm mowing areas I've mowed before. My other implements are a box blade, a middle buster, and a 60" tiller. The tiller might pose a balance problem, but maybe I can take the FEL off for late spring into early fall when I'm mostly just mowing.

 

[oldnslo]

On smaller SCUT they do not have the quick tach bucket the whole FEL is removed. On larger tractors with quick tach you can remove the bucket easier.

 

[coloradotrout]

My bucket comes off fairly easily it appears. Tip it back, remove two latch pins, lower and pull away. The entire FEL is a bit tricky to put back on -- easy to take off, but if the ground is not level, putting on requires some manual help to line things up.

 

[coloradotrout]

My bucket comes off fairly easily it appears. Tip it back, remove two latch pins, lower and pull away. The entire FEL is a bit tricky to put back on -- easy to take off, but if the ground is not level, putting on requires some manual help to line things up.

I took the bucket off for a bit this eve. Noticeably better traction when in 2WD. Generally I have to be in 4WD when using the finish mower, or it slips on just about any incline. The next full mow, and I'll have a better idea. I'd imagine with the lift arms off, traction would improve another time or so.

 

[bcjmmac]

I take the FEL completely off for mowing (use 5' 3 pt finish mower on my 2520). With the FEL on, the front tires leave marks on the lawn if soil isn't completely dry & I have also had the front wheels sink into the soil when doing meadows (had to reverse in 4WD to get out). Not really an issue with the FEL off & I don't have any inclines steep enough to cause any issues. It's also easier to get closer to trees when doing the meadow/trails with the FEL off.

 

[dragoneggs]

Take it off. I have a BX2230, so close to the same size. Any FEL you have mounted on any tractor will put the weight of the FEL out in front of your tippy front axle. Not only did you add weight to that axle, you transferred almost the same amount of weight from the stable rear wheels to the front wheels. Having it an inch off the ground still transfers the weight. The COG is only one aspect. The COG with respect to a rocking front axle is also important. You can (and should) ballast your tractor to counter this, but it's just a lot easier to remove the FEL. The FEL makes a dandy emergency brake if you are going down a hill and lose traction. But if you didn't have it on, you probably wouldn't have lost traction anyway.

From my personal experience, I drove my BX down on my hillside set to do loader work. That means the FEL on the front, 50 lbs of weight on each rear wheel hub, and a 275lb bar on the 3ph. I had the FEL and weight bar both about 2 inches off the ground. My tires are also loaded, but no spacers. I parked it in a place where I felt it was sort of tippy which turned out to be between 20 and 25 degrees. I got off and pushed on the uphill side rollbar with one hand and fairly easily lifted the rear wheel off the ground. I then drove to the garage and removed the FEL, weight bar, and wheel weights. I drove down and parked in the exact same place. I could NOT lift the wheel off the ground. And that's why I will never again mow with my FEL on.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

That is the kind of data I like... thanks Ray.

 

[Creamer]

That convinces me too! Along with making scientific sense!

 

[coloradotrout]

OK, I'll plan to take the entire FEL off. Taking off is a couple mins -- putting on can be a bit longer.

So for mowing (3 pt), I'm planning to run FEL-free
What about box blading?
Or tilling?
I'm also thinking to get a 5' rear blade for road grading and snow removal. Thoughts?

 

[ajd187]

OK, I'll plan to take the entire FEL off. Taking off is a couple mins -- putting on can be a bit longer.

So for mowing (3 pt), I'm planning to run FEL-free
What about box blading?
Or tilling?
I'm also thinking to get a 5' rear blade for road grading and snow removal. Thoughts?

In those instances, you would probably want it on to balance out the weight that is on the rear end. At least that's what I have been led to believe.

 

[RoyJackson]

OK, I'll plan to take the entire FEL off. Taking off is a couple mins -- putting on can be a bit longer.

So for mowing (3 pt), I'm planning to run FEL-free
What about box blading?
Or tilling?
I'm also thinking to get a 5' rear blade for road grading and snow removal. Thoughts?

For mowing, you are better off removing the FEL rather then just the bucket. Removing the bucket only reduces the overall length of the tractor/mower, but raises the tractor's center of gravity. The weight of the FEL frame is above the centerline of the tractor. That bucket, which is pretty heavy, can offset the frame weight if it (the bucket) is kept low when mowing.
By removing the FEL, you keep the tractor's center of gravity low (very desirable!) as well as keeping the overall length low...a win-win in my book.

Since I don't have a box blade or tiller, I'll refrain from commenting on those.

As far as the rear blade for snow removal...I used to use one and a lot of folks do use them. The rear blade works quite well for snow removal...especially on a long straights. Do keep the FEL on as you'll likely need it too.
As far as grading...you'll likely run out of traction before running out of power. Small bites (not too deep) work better...but you can adjust that "bite" as you learn your tractor's capabilities.

 

[RaydaKub]

That bucket, which is pretty heavy, can offset the frame weight if it (the bucket) is kept low when mowing.

Certainly you'd want to keep it low if you keep it on. But my contention is that since the bucket is fairly heavy, you've moved almost the same amount of weight as the bucket off the rear wheels onto the fronts because of the leverage it causes. That will dramatically affect your stability.

 

[coloradotrout]

Did some more mowing with the entire FEL OFF. What a difference. I had very few traction issues in 2WD. That's 180 from what I used to have with the FEL ON. On a few steep slopes, I did have to engage 4WD, but mostly because there was some uneven ground and both rear wheels were not making good ground contact. (Yes, I was going up/down the slope). So from here on, I plan to mow 90% of what I mow with the FEL OFF. The cut quality also appears to be better. As someone noted, the heavily loaded front wheels dig into the soil/grass. Also, with the FEL on, I generally had to run in 4WD, which tore into the grass some also. Now if we'd just get some good rain, and the grass would start growing again, I could really test 'er out. Thanks for all the comments here.

 

[coloradotrout]

As far as the rear blade for snow removal...I used to use one and a lot of folks do use them. The rear blade works quite well for snow removal...especially on a long straights. Do keep the FEL on as you'll likely need it too.
As far as grading...you'll likely run out of traction before running out of power. Small bites (not too deep) work better...but you can adjust that "bite" as you learn your tractor's capabilities.

The 4100 is about 48" wide. Any thoughts on the size of the rear blade?

 

[RoyJackson]

The 4100 is about 48" wide. Any thoughts on the size of the rear blade?

60" blade, so when you angle it for snowplowing, you'll still be more then the width of the tractor.
BTW, there's differing opinion whether you should drive forward when you plow (tractor goes over the snow before the blade hits it) or drive in reverse to push the snow.. Those 3ph arms aren't really made for pushing and you really don't want to hit anything immovable if driving if reverse in a higher gear.
So, when I had a rear blade, I drove forward using both the loader bucket and blade.

 

[coloradotrout]

60" blade, so when you angle it for snowplowing, you'll still be more then the width of the tractor.
BTW, there's differing opinion whether you should drive forward when you plow (tractor goes over the snow before the blade hits it) or drive in reverse to push the snow.. Those 3ph arms aren't really made for pushing and you really don't want to hit anything immovable if driving if reverse in a higher gear.
So, when I had a rear blade, I drove forward using both the loader bucket and blade.

Certainly a lot easier on the neck if I can drive forward. My gravel driveway is about 1/2 mile long. I've been use the FEL to clear snow, but really need that angled blade to make this what it needs to be. I just don't know if I'll get enough traction driving atop the snow.

 

[RoyJackson]

Certainly a lot easier on the neck if I can drive forward. My gravel driveway is about 1/2 mile long. I've been use the FEL to clear snow, but really need that angled blade to make this what it needs to be. I just don't know if I'll get enough traction driving atop the snow.

Use chains on your rear tires...you'll have plenty of traction...

 

[Creamer]

60" blade, so when you angle it for snowplowing, you'll still be more then the width of the tractor.
BTW, there's differing opinion whether you should drive forward when you plow (tractor goes over the snow before the blade hits it) or drive in reverse to push the snow.. Those 3ph arms aren't really made for pushing and you really don't want to hit anything immovable if driving if reverse in a higher gear.
So, when I had a rear blade, I drove forward using both the loader bucket and blade.

I can attest that it is quite a jolt hitting something with the blade pushing backwards but I still do it because sometimes it just works better. Sometimes it is better to go forward using the blade at an angle. Where you are at in Eastern KS you should not have a traction problem. I only have one when the snow gets to deep and I have turf tires on the rear.

 

[Oaktree]

Did some more mowing with the entire FEL OFF. What a difference. I had very few traction issues in 2WD. That's 180 from what I used to have with the FEL ON. On a few steep slopes, I did have to engage 4WD, but mostly because there was some uneven ground and both rear wheels were not making good ground contact. (Yes, I was going up/down the slope). So from here on, I plan to mow 90% of what I mow with the FEL OFF. The cut quality also appears to be better. As someone noted, the heavily loaded front wheels dig into the soil/grass. Also, with the FEL on, I generally had to run in 4WD, which tore into the grass some also. Now if we'd just get some good rain, and the grass would start growing again, I could really test 'er out.

I guess we've been hogging all the rain up here...I've got muddy areas and a small spring this year that have always been bone dry by mid-July. Still kind of humid, but we've finally had 5 or 6 sunny days in a row now...first time since mid-May or so.

I've also noticed a little better cut quality when I mow with the FEL off too, not sure why. The only downside is that going up a slope the front end feels a bit light, but nothing that feels like I'm gonna do a wheelie or anything. Like others have noted, I have to mow around a lot of trees and it's nice not having to worry about the bucket catching on something when I'm backing up.

 

[coloradotrout]

My theory on the 'cut quality better w/o the FEL' is that the FEL bounced me around more, and the smaller dia. tires mashed the grass down more.

Again this is using a 5' pto driven rear discharge finish mower (an old Arts Way that's been retrofitted with front wheels vs the stock 2 rear only that came with it) The cut quality was good enough for me even with the FEL on..

I need to get a brush hog too -- right now this finish mower does double duty in the fescue yard and for weed control in the pasture (where rocks, limbs, etc really are a hazard).