Motorcycle, ATV or Go Kart for a 9 year old. Your thoughts?

[Dmace]

4 wheeler crash
YouTube - 4Wheeler Crash

Dirtbike crash
YouTube - Dirtbike crash

What's your point...? At least my video is relevant to the thread and a kid that can not control the lack of stability that a dirt bike offers as opposed to your video of a couple of women from a middle eastern country that are riding dual on a single rider ATV.
They are all dangerous if your kid is not taught to respect it for what it is.

 

[txdon]

The point was, that as stated in a previous post, The injuries come from the weight of the 4 wheeler landing on the driver.

Eddie here is a mini bike similar to mine.

YouTube - Insane Mini Bike Crash

The point here is the mini bike is lighter and crashes usually end in just laying it down.

Of course there are exceptions........

 

[Steve C]

I would chose a dirt bike over any of the other toys you have listed. For the simple reason that it requires the rider to develop the skills needed to operate it safely. ATV's and go carts require virtually no skill or judgment. You can hit the gas and hang on, steer and hope for the best. Nothing is learned. The dirt bike will throw you to the ground almost emediately when you are riding beyond your skill level, ATV's and go carts will let you get away with it and when you do crash the results can be catastrophic because they will let you ride much faster than your skill level allows because of their inherent stability, but when you lose it you loose it big time and won't even see it coming and most times solid objects or hills are involved and the machine drives you into the ground. That can result in some serious damage. I have seen it first hand on the ORV trails in our area.

 

[emmy71]

Those buggies are TOO COOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did you see the videos on them?


A little update. I found out that the Honda motorcycle dealer is out of business. I've seen that the building was empty, but had hoped that they had moved to another location. So then I went to the Yamaha dealer. They have two 50cc bikes in their showroom that cost $1,600 They look tiny, so I asked what the next size up was. He said the 110 is five inches taller at the seat and that it sells for $1,900 Unfortunately, they sold two of them last week and they don't have any in stock right now.

Then another salesguy joined in and told me that they are not allowed by law to sell any motor vehicle that a child under 13 will ride. If they are told that a child younger then 13 will ride it, then they are not allowed to sell it. This is also why they don't have any small four wheelers and will not be selling any of the small bikes any longer. I asked about buying the little 50cc bike for cheap, but they said they couldn't sell it to me. Not even for full price.

After that, I went to Tractor Supply and saw a 70cc dirt bike by Baja Motorsports for $600. It's a pretty basic looking bike, but ideal for what I'm wanting. They sales guy wasn't very helpful, and really didn't seem to want to talk to me. I asked about parts, and he said they could order them. I asked about doing that myself online and how long it takes to get the parts, but he sort of just walked away, saying that he had to finish something.

I like the look of that bike and this weekend, they are having a 15% off sale.

Anybody know anything about Baja Motorsports? I haven't done a google search yet, but will be doing that next.

Thanks
Eddie

This is why they won't sell you a bike to a child under 13. Here's a tip to all parents: if you see your child sucking on his motorcycle he probably shouldn't have one. Lead law throttles youth powersports - USATODAY.com

 

[Mark_in_NH]

Those buggies are TOO COOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie,
My thoughts exactly !!
I suspect your son would be the envy of all his friends with normal 4 wheelers if he showed up in one of these.
I can't find the dune buggy website that showed some videos of their buggys in action. The one video I had in mind showed a buggy doing the rock climbing stuff you might see on one of those off road jeep expeditions. I was impressed. Granted it was one of the 800cc models I believe.
Here is a link to a bunch of youtube videos of these type off road buggys in action.

YouTube - Carter 250cc Interceptor

I wish I could come up with a valid use or excuse to go buy one.

 

[Mark_in_NH]

The particular video I posted to is certainly not the best one for advertising. It doesn't appear as though the operator is wearing Any safety gear. But it does show some of the capabilities of the little machins .
Scan through the other videos listed and you can see a variety of differant buggys doing a multitude of things. One of the videos i saw of a Carter buggy clearly had a tow ball on it and as I recall from some of the websites, soem of the buggys can and do come factory equipped with tow hitchs and front mounted winch's.
This video happens to be in China, but it sure shows these buggys being put to the test.
YouTube - BLADE 250 TOURTURE TEST

Her is a good one from the operators perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZkX4HKLc88&feature=related

 

[Mark_in_NH]

This short video clip actually catchs a roll over at a pretty good speed. Not something any parent would want to see their child involved in but it does show the safety factor of a roll cage and seat harness. The operator never leaves his seat, he lands on his wheels and drives off, you wouldn't have done that with a conventinal 4 wheeler.
YouTube - Dazon Raider 250-S Roll-Over

This video shows a good size adult in a 2 seater 150 (make unknown) unfortunatly he is not even wearing the seat harness never mind a helmet but it is a good comparison of size, man vs. machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JjkOPTh1tI&feature=related

 

[archerm3]

We can all see you are slanting this as the ATV is the worst of the 2. But all the ATV injuries can happen on a motorcycle. It seems you have the bike rider in full gear and the ATV rider in flip-flops, shorts and a tank top.

Speed has always been a problem, especially with the ATV, you can't control it at speeds and when people hit trees bad things happen. Same thing can happen with a bike but you do have more control IMO...i use to race motocross and now ride ATV's. As with most motocross riders, I have had 2 knee operations from a single minor crash. Feet get caught on the pegs, under the bike, there goes the ACL.

If you can control the speed of the ATV, I think it's safer. But the big wheeled go-cart is the safest of them all IMO.

Well, sure there is a slant as that is my observation and subsequent opinion.

Yes, it seems to me that bike riders generally wear safety gear, and ATV riders generally don't. I believe I mentioned that directly.

As far as speed, one thing I maybe didn't convey enough about the ATV injuries is the low speed ones. Where the ATV is crawling along, and the rider guns the throttle either because of terrain bounce, slippery thumb, whatever, usually on an uphill or cross slope, and the ATV rotates into a snap wheelie all the way around, trapping the rider underneath the handlebar or front rack before the rider can escape. That's a lot of rotation momentum built up when that 3/4" piece of bar hits you square in the chest with your back on the ground. One a motorcycle, at slow speed, if you give it too much gas to go into a wheelie, either your feet are near the ground, or on the pegs, your reflexes immediately bring your legs behind you and you let the motorcycle fly out in front of you as you stand there. On the ATV, your reflexes try to do the same thing, only to find out that the rear fenders are blocking your feet, so now you have to think about jumping straight off the footpads, only by this time the ATV is already on top of you, or it's rotated to the point that when you jump straight off the ATV, you're jumping straight into the dirt above you and the ATV is shortly to follow.

As far as ACL type injuries, that was kinda my point, is that offroad motorcycle injuries are generally to the extremeties, and generally not lifethreatening and hence I don't see them hardly ever, they're not worth a $15000 helicopter ride, whereas the ATV injuries are internal and head traumas, in which we can't get there fast enough.

IMO, a person could go as slow as he wants and the minibike would still be safer than an ATV. I also recognize that even riding a bicycle at high speed leaves you vulnerable to high speed injuries.

This is the way I look at it. How big a person would someone let hit their kid in the chest or face with a handlebar that weighs a couple hundred pounds? You know, someone that has the muscles equivalent to 10 horsepower, swinging a couple hundred pound handlebar. Cause that's what the ATV can do if you can't get away from it.

They make ROPS for tractors, why not ATV's methinks.

 

[Mark_in_NH]

I have Never ridden a motorized bike of any kind so I can't and won't express any opinion on them. I have however crashed a 4 wheeler twice. Both accidents were years ago, I was late teens / early 20's, They were both the original Honda 4trax, I was not wearing any protective gear.
1st accident was me trying to climb to steep of an embankment and the machine rolled over backwards with me underneath it. Yes, it hurts like He!! and it took quite awhile for me to be able to catch a breath properly.
2nd accident was caused be me taking a corner, to fast, at night, on a dirt road. crashed into a stone wall just missing a large tree.
Both accidents were clearly my fault for using the machine in a hazerdous fashion. I feel very lucky to have walked away both times with nothing more then some bruises, mostly to my ego.
A large percentage ( not all ) of the accidents I see or hear about, it doesn't matter whether it is a 4 wheeler, dirt bike, or off road buggy, youtube has alot of them to watch, are usually caused by the operator screwing around in some type of an unsafe manor.
They had nothing to do with one type of machine being any less safe than another. Thats just one persons (mine) observations and opinion.
Even if a rider, irrelevent of age or experience, operates in a responsible safe manor, We all know "Poop Can Happen" !!!
You can have the most mature, responsible child in the world, you can educate them on the safe proper operation of any machine. You can equip them with the best safety gear and "Poop Can still Happen"
If I had a child that I wanted to get some type of a "first" all terrain toy for. I would have to go with the off road buggy. They seem to me, to provide the necessary additional protections to help my child stay safer ie. "less risk of serious injury", for when that "Poop Happens". Again, only my opinion.
I think that we, as a group of mature adults and in the name of the TBN, should apply for a government stimulas package so that we can go buy a bunch of all the toys and do some proper testing.

 

[RobJ]

one other thing to note on atv vs gocart

we had go-carts as kid... they were always fun because they sat so low, went fast and with the low CG and wide base it they could blast around corners at amazeing sped and with a little left foot driving could get them to spin out and drift (way before drifting in cars was cool)

in contrast an ATV is tall, has a high CG and is very narrow/small wheel base making it the perfect storm for tossing the rider. = injury

if you look at the sport atv's (not the hunter/woodsman/woker ones) they generally sit much lower, have MUCH wider stances (many people specifically put on wide arm fronts and rears) this makes them MUCH more stable than normal non-sport atv's

in other words

this does not equal this
would i put my kid on a full size utility atv (which most of us are likely to have) no... would i put my kid on a sport atv with tuned down motor, shure

You are missing the whole speed factor to. My Honda rancher tops out at 45-50mph, and takes a while to get there. Actually an RPM limiter kicks in. The Sport atvs in the picture can get up to 80mph+++! Off the showroom floor! And they do have a little lower COG, not much. If you watch the races the riders are leaning hard each way to keep it from rolling over. I doubt is a 9yo(uhhh the proper weight of a 9yo ) has enough weight to counter act a 400# atv(maybe they weigh more, my Rancher is 525#).

 

[RobJ]

Rox's post on supervision reminded me of the tragedy that happened down the road this summer. A Grandpa was cleaning the pool while his grandchildren were swimming and he looked over and saw one child floating face down. The child died. He was right there but take your eyes off a second....

I used to drive all over my grandfather's farm on the 5hp mini bike "unsupervised". (I did not want to wreck the mini bike I bought with my paper route money.) Sooner or later you will not have you eyes on him 100% of the time (probably sooner). Train him to drive unsupervised. If you think he is too young, or physically, or mentally unable to handle the responsibility, wait a couple of years.

Don, I agree those mini bikes were tons of fun, I've been on the look out for one myself. But good thing they didn't go that fast, most of the ones we rode only had 3-4hp engines. Those FLAT bottom tires made it hard to lean into a turn. But if I could find one cheap, I think I'd buy it...just have to figure out a place to hide it!!

Rob

 

[RobJ]

As far as speed, one thing I maybe didn't convey enough about the ATV injuries is the low speed ones. Where the ATV is crawling along, and the rider guns the throttle either because of terrain bounce, slippery thumb, whatever, usually on an uphill or cross slope, and the ATV rotates into a snap wheelie all the way around, trapping the rider underneath the handlebar or front rack before the rider can escape. That's a lot of rotation momentum built up when that 3/4" piece of bar hits you square in the chest with your back on the ground. One a motorcycle, at slow speed, if you give it too much gas to go into a wheelie, either your feet are near the ground, or on the pegs, your reflexes immediately bring your legs behind you and you let the motorcycle fly out in front of you as you stand there. On the ATV, your reflexes try to do the same thing, only to find out that the rear fenders are blocking your feet, so now you have to think about jumping straight off the footpads, only by this time the ATV is already on top of you, or it's rotated to the point that when you jump straight off the ATV, you're jumping straight into the dirt above you and the ATV is shortly to follow.

This actually a very good example. But have you ever been in this exact situation? I have on several occasions. Eddie might remember a near "close call" at his place a couple years back, but going down is easier than going up!

First it is a little hard to yank a wheelie on a hunting type ATV.. Believe me I've tried! Youtube it and you will see guys standing on the rear bar or using a sport bike, much lighter and more powerful. I believe the utility versions are pretty balanced. So it is just a little harder to get up and over. All of my cases were trying to climb a hill that was to steep and the ATV either came over OR I applied the brake which locked the rear wheel and it tumbled backwards. I stay away from steep hills now!

But you are right it is harder to get your feet back. But your description of the motorcycle wheelie is a little forgiving to. I have done that as well in my time. If you are going SLOW enough, you might catch yourself. If you hang on to long and try to save it, you slide off, butt hit the ground, that can hurt. Or if you hit something that stops the butt it'll toss you over on your face. DAMHIKT....either!

But back to the ATV wheelie, so you start to slide off, your legs go up over the fenders, and here we are. My first thought was not to roll out of the way. What do I do when something is about to hit my face, I grimace, look down, but I put my hands up. Same here, legs are up, on the seat, push the 600# atv off to the side. Not that hard to do move that much MOVING weight. They teach that in Kung Fu to!!

So thats what I did and now I stay off hills!! On if I was on a motorcycle on the same steep hill...hmmm, legs would be downhill, have to rely on arms to push the bike aside or it could fall on me to. DAMHIKT....either. YEah I had a rough childhood. But I have never broken a bone in my life,,,so far!

Oh and you are correct about the 15k ride, most people don't realize that. It pricey and no fun if you are asleep!

Rob

 

[archerm3]

I have never experienced it, never want to, felt like I was close several times on some slopes...But, I seen many the result of people that had experienced it. It's generally bad taste to ask patients how the effed up riding while flying..esp when they're getting cpr, or a parent is riding along crying hysterically. But word does get around eventually.

 

[rox]

I would chose a dirt bike over any of the other toys you have listed. For the simple reason that it requires the rider to develop the skills needed to operate it safely. ATV's and go carts require virtually no skill or judgment. You can hit the gas and hang on, steer and hope for the best. Nothing is learned. The dirt bike will throw you to the ground almost emediately when you are riding beyond your skill level, ATV's and go carts will let you get away with it and when you do crash the results can be catastrophic because they will let you ride much faster than your skill level allows because of their inherent stability, but when you lose it you loose it big time and won't even see it coming and most times solid objects or hills are involved and the machine drives you into the ground. That can result in some serious damage. I have seen it first hand on the ORV trails in our area.

I totally agree with you and you stated it better than I did. On a small bike they have to learn. Okay he will probably wipe out and hurt himself but he is probably not going to die on a mini bike. And every time he wipes out he is learning. It is the first step and then progress to bigger more fun equipment after he has learned the skills. He'l have tons and tons of fun on a mini bike, a friend of our had one and I still remember how much fun it was to ride. Do you think you even really need a helmet with a mini bike? How far dwn is the ground after all and it can't go all that fast.

 

[Steve C]

Yes a helmet is a very good idea, the ground isn't very far away but there are a lot of other hard things you can run your head into when you least expect it. A full face dirt bike helmet can save your face when it hits a tree. My son actually split his chin open on the handle bars when he tried to climb a tree with his little honda 70. (he had an old fashioned open face helmet back then, now that I think of it, that is all there was available at the time.) If he had a full coverage helmet on it would have saved a trip to the emergency room, and we could have spent the rest of the day riding in the woods instead of driving to town.

Farm Pro 2425
Honda 1800 Goldwing
Honda 1800 VTX
Harley Davidson 1450 Nightrain
KTM 525 EXC
GasGas 250 Enduro
Kawasaki 300 4 wheeler

 

[jinman]

Hey Eddie! Don't you love it when everybody agrees and you have one single good answer?

BTW: Like most other things, the dune buggy/offroad carts have a complete price range from around $2k up to $5k. I don't think anyone expects you to spend that kind of money on a birthday present for a 9 year-old. What the heck would you do to top that next year? I think you know what you want to spend and finding a suitable gift within your price range is the biggest challenge. Any of these could cost you a bundle by the time you get all the gear to go along with the vehicle. Maybe you should buy him a nice set of golf clubs and get him started driving balls in your pasture. He may be the next Tiger Woods and then he can buy YOU a dune buggy.

 

[Mark_in_NH]

My last post on the subject. All of our reasons and personal preferance's aside. Who on earth wouldn't want one of these, just look at this baby ! Definatly not a model for little children. At 1000cc, 51.6 HP and $7300.00 this one is built for us big kids.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I have a 2 seat gokart, that an adult can ride in. I wished I had gotten one with the shocks, mine is rather bumpy riding, but the kids have fun in it. I make them wear helmets and seat belt is a must.
My wife is dead set against a 4 wheeler, we know kids that have gotten brain damage for life because of 4 wheeler accidents.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

This actually a very good example. But have you ever been in this exact situation? I have on several occasions. Eddie might remember a near "close call" at his place a couple years back, but going down is easier than going up!

First it is a little hard to yank a wheelie on a hunting type ATV.. Believe me I've tried! Youtube it and you will see guys standing on the rear bar or using a sport bike, much lighter and more powerful. I believe the utility versions are pretty balanced. So it is just a little harder to get up and over. All of my cases were trying to climb a hill that was to steep and the ATV either came over OR I applied the brake which locked the rear wheel and it tumbled backwards. I stay away from steep hills now!

But you are right it is harder to get your feet back. But your description of the motorcycle wheelie is a little forgiving to. I have done that as well in my time. If you are going SLOW enough, you might catch yourself. If you hang on to long and try to save it, you slide off, butt hit the ground, that can hurt. Or if you hit something that stops the butt it'll toss you over on your face. DAMHIKT....either!

But back to the ATV wheelie, so you start to slide off, your legs go up over the fenders, and here we are. My first thought was not to roll out of the way. What do I do when something is about to hit my face, I grimace, look down, but I put my hands up. Same here, legs are up, on the seat, push the 600# atv off to the side. Not that hard to do move that much MOVING weight. They teach that in Kung Fu to!!

So thats what I did and now I stay off hills!! On if I was on a motorcycle on the same steep hill...hmmm, legs would be downhill, have to rely on arms to push the bike aside or it could fall on me to. DAMHIKT....either. YEah I had a rough childhood. But I have never broken a bone in my life,,,so far!

Oh and you are correct about the 15k ride, most people don't realize that. It pricey and no fun if you are asleep!

Rob

I don't know what type they are riding, but I see kids riding by my house quite often standing up on ATV's while doing wheelies, as they ride down a state road they aren't supposed to be on. And without helmets. One of these days there will be one less of them. I just say "there goes the idiots". they are older than 9, but still...
On a similar topic,
Just tonight I saw 2 guys on motorcycles going down the left lane of a 4 lane road, standing up and doing wheelies probably doing at least 50 MPH, in the middle of pretty heavy traffic. A couple yrs ago one was killed doing a stunt like this, just a few miles down the same road, he was riding naked. unbelievable.

 

[MNBobcat]

I used to own an ATV Magazine and was an editor for 13 years. Dateline NBC contacted me a few years ago about a story they wanted to do about kids getting hurt on ATVs. They wanted to interview me. But they lost interest in the story after I set the record straight and explained some things to them.

First, if it has an engine a kid can get hurt on it. The injury usually happens after the kid (or adult) starts getting really comfortable with the machine (ATV, motorcycle, gokart, etc) and starts pushing him/herself to go faster to the point where they exceed their abilities. Usually its by going into a corner too hot and the machine slides or gets away from them. Its not the machine that is the problem nor is the machine itself dangerous. Its all about being properly educated about safety and riding within your limits.

ATVs are not any more or less safe than any other motorized vehicle. The parents are often to blame because they put kids on ATVs that are way too big for them and don't require the kid to wear safety gear. So as a result, ATVs are suddenly deemed "dangerous".

I have a nephew who started riding ATVs when he was 5. He is 11 now. Never had an accident. But then his parents took the time to teach him how to ride. When I was 12 I had a friend put his motorcycle footpeg through his ankle when he fell. He didn't have riding boots on. His dad bought him a pair AFTER the accident.

My suggestion -- buy him whatever you want. But be sure to get him a pair of motocross riding boots, gloves and a full face helmet with goggles and chin guard. If he does fall, wearing the proper gear I doubt he will get hurt. I took a lot of falls growing up and never got hurt. I also didn't have the proper riding gear at the time either. Whatever you buy him, make sure its not too big for him. He will be fine.

Also, you're doing the right thing. He will learn to love that form of recreation and it will be something he will likely enjoy his entire life. His fondest memories of growing up will be the hours he spends out riding. He will develop skills and coordination that will help him achieve other goals in life, too. My daughter grew up riding ATVs and she took to driving a car when she turned 16 as if she had been driving all of her life. She still has her ATV and rides it every time she comes home from college.

Good luck and best wishes to your son.