Mile Marker winch done

[mainiac]

I finally finished my winch mount. Still waiting for winter to set into Maine. There is not much frost in the ground and we have had enough rain to make the ground to soft for the land owner to let me on to start cutting. I did hook it up and pulled my pickup around a little. It is going to work great.

As far as the hydraulic pressures are concerned. I have found that the winch works fine and when it loads up to a stall, the relief valve will open and I definately know when that happens. Engine speed does affect the speed of the winch. The winch is a two speed winch as well.

I feel this is a good alternative for a small tractor compared to a logging winch at $2500plus. I have a B7500 Kubota(21hp@engine,17hp@PTO). I have about $1100 into this project and that does include the new winch. I would have had some more if I had to buy all the steel, but I cleaned out some of my scrap pile for this.

The only thing different I would do is to use square stock instead of the channel iron.

A good sand blasting and paint will happen this coming sommer as I do not have a heated garage and wifey would shoot me if I did it in the cellar and stink up the house.

Can't wait to really try it.

 

[RedRocker]

Looks good, I may end up doing something like that myself. What did the winch cost you and what model is it?

 

[mainiac]

It was $755 with the valve including shipping. I got it from winchesplus.com. The guy I delt with(can't remember his name) was a big help and said that there are many of these mounted on tractors using tractor hydraulics.

I have seen some other winch mounts on tractors on this web site as well as forestryforum.com that I like as well, but I feel I need a bigger tractor to do them. One guy has an electric winch mounted to his FEL which is really cool. Could see that being handy.

It is the 10500lb winch with out the electronics on the winch (70 series if I remember correctly).

 

[schmism]

It is the 10500lb winch with out the electronics on the winch (70 series if I remember correctly).

a 10K winch is HUGE! you could likey find one in the 5-8K range for much cheeper and still work fine. The issue is removing 100' of the 150' of cable. if your on the top 4th or 5th wrap your realy lost a lot of pulling power. Its best (especailly for something like this) to re-swage the end of the 100' cable you cut off and carry it with you if you really need to reach WAY out to grab something.

Remember to keep 3 wraps on the drum as a min.

Im surprised that this project set you back that much... did you have to by the spool for the "rear remote" also? or did you already have it?

 

[mainiac]

I had to buy the valve $120 and then the hoses. 4 total at a cost of $240! I was shocked and P.O.'d. Went in to have the local shop make them up and I figured in the 100-125 dollar range. Shop never indicated that it was going to be over 2 bills. Called around the area after buying these to see if I was being price gouged and the general feeling was no.

If I had used more hard pipe I might have gotten away cheaper, but I used flex hose with swival 90's and the quick couplers to tap into my tractor was $50 alone. The shops I talked with all said that every time they reorder fittings, they are costing more and more. Almost doubled in a year is what they said.

As far as the size of the winch, yes I could have gotten a 9500lb winch for $25 cheaper and as far as I could find, 9500lb MM was the smallest hydrothey made.
There was other makes, but required more gpm's than 4. MM just seemed like the closest specs I could come up with to meet what my tractor works at.

I did have a hydro winch given to me if I could use it. I priced out a hydro system to run off the PTO and I quickly hit $950 using new parts and that was just what I could think (rough list) of when pricing. Told the shop to forget it when they hit $950.

I don't have easy access to a hydro salvage yard to piece meal used parts.

 

[Deerlope]

You have a good idea going there but a few other things to consider are that you will probably hook the choker back a foot or so on the log. Will this allow the log to hit the winch. Also if you can find a way to mount the Fairlead about 10" from the winch it will act almost like a level wind. Also if you bought your winch from winchsplus.com you probably talked to Dave, a very knowledge man.

 

[mainiac]

Deerlope,

I saw that on one of your previous postings and I scratched my head for a long time trying to figure a way to do it. It just gets me back to needing a bigger tractor.

I planned this to put as little weight onto the 3ph as possilbe as to maximize the lift at the log instead of on equipment. I am estimating the weight of what I built at 125lbs and if I remember the spec numbers on my 3ph, that is about 1/7th of the lift.

I do not plan on using the winch cable for skidding, just to pull the logs to the tractor. then I will rehitch the chains to grab hooks on the receiver the I welded there. and use the low part as a butt plate. I am thinking of adding a 'D' ring or something like that so that I can rig a 2 point pull on the bigger logs. I have alot of red maple to haul.

I like everyones input. I helps me think about things that I may have forgotten.

And yes it was Dave I talked with. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Deerlope]

We learn from each other by kicking ideas around.

 

[patrick_g]

I am not all that experienced in dragging logs but you aren't going to actually use the snatch block as mounted are you? I mean it would surely pull the tractor over backwards. I assume it is a convenient way to haul it.

I couldn't be sure from the pix but isn't the entry point for the cable (in the middle of the fairlead rollers) above the center of the rear axle? So if you ran the cable (without the snatch block) to a log and took up a good strain wouldn't it try to pull the front wheels up off the ground and rotate the tractor around its rear axle and dump you upside down if you didn't shut down? I'm sure you would shut down before disaster struck but why not mount the winch lower?

I'd be concerned that I would lose positive steering control while dragging a heavy log.

Pat

 

[K7147]

It was $755 with the valve including shipping. I got it from winchesplus.com. The guy I delt with(can't remember his name) was a big help and said that there are many of these mounted on tractors using tractor hydraulics.

I have seen some other winch mounts on tractors on this web site as well as forestryforum.com that I like as well, but I feel I need a bigger tractor to do them. One guy has an electric winch mounted to his FEL which is really cool. Could see that being handy.

It is the 10500lb winch with out the electronics on the winch (70 series if I remember correctly).

Maniac!

I’m probably the one with the electric winch on the FEL. You did a nice job and I think YOUR winch is COOL!

Ken

 

[mainiac]

Patrick,

The winch is mounted right at the lift arms and the receiver is at the top link. I will run the cable up through the snatch block, out to the log, and then lower my 3ph to the ground so that the sort of blade is ground engaged using the weight of the pull to drive it in. I believe this is one reason why the logging winches like Farmi puts that blade on.

I am not an engineer, so that is why I am posting here to make sure I am not on the wrong path with my thinking. My winch does not move nearly as fast as a clutch type and to actually pull my tractor over, it would have to be in low range which moves even slower, and NO side pulls for me. Just like any manual job. One must constantly be aware of your surroundings as to what is going on and adjust accordingly to remain safe.

I do know things happen so fast that you can not react fast enough. I did flip my tractor once by having to much weight on the bucket. Happened so fast. I was one lucky boy. As the tractor went over I just stepped off and out of the way. Scared the **** out of me.

Ken,

I do think it was your FEL mount I was talking about. I do wish I had enough tractor to that too. I can see my next tractor having the ability to move the winch from the front to the back.

Thanks for thinking mine is cool too.

Mainiac

 

[MikeD74T]

I'm usually on the side opposing the "safety police" but I think you should reconsider towing from that height. I have a 3pt arch pto mechanical winch. It's old & slow & will drag the tractor if the log snags. I posted pictures a while back under "logging arch ??". I put hooks down low for dragging & have never had any trouble. I'd put hooks just above the "blade" to drag with. With a big log you could hold it up just off the ground with the cable while maintaining the load lower & keep the front end on the ground. Overall a very nice job. MikeD74T

 

[pat32rf]

If I had known I could get a MM hydraulic for that price I would have made a cross-border shopping trip...I used a 8000lb electric but had to add a second battery to the assembly. Yours looks a lot more compact and the grab hooks will make a big difference. You might find that you bend the receiver that the pulley mounts on but that can be replaced with a roller fairlead if required (build it yourself, you got the ability). Wouldn't worry about rear flips too much, I've found that traction is the limiting factor while towing( that is a hydrostat isn't it-much easier to lift your foot off the go-pedal than to find the clutch when the front wheels start to climb).
I'd even be proud to paint that unit Green....

 

[patrick_g]

Patrick,

The winch is mounted right at the lift arms and the receiver is at the top link. I will run the cable up through the snatch block, out to the log, and then lower my 3ph to the ground so that the sort of blade is ground engaged using the weight of the pull to drive it in.
Mainiac

Pretty much satisfies my concern. I admire your work but would hate for you to loose steering force because the tires got light in front. You don't have to "do a loop" to have a problem towing too high. You just have to lighten the front wheels enough to lose good traction and effective steering.

As for things happening fast... I was at a glass shop getting the windshield replaced on a 4x4 Dakota (my beater.) Behind the glass shop is Shawnee Tractor, a repair facility not new tractor sales. A guy was CAREFULLY backing a trractor off of a trailer (old tractor, no ROPS.) He was backing carefully but unfortunately had not removed all the tiedown chains and the rear axle was chained to the trailer. He wasn't backing all that fast but when he took tension on the chain the front of the tractor came up and the tractor ended up upside down with the steering wheel pinning the guy to the pavement. HE left on a back board wearing a cervicle brace. I didn't follow the story so I don't know if he was DOA or what. Even if he lived to curse at the SAFETY POLICE yet another day (note, no ROPS) he would likely not forget that incident.

Picture yoiurself scooting right along towing a sort of light log at a fair clip and the log hits the proverbial immovable oject (rock, stump, whatever.) If the point at which the pulling force is generated is higher than the center of the axle the result will be a torque trying to rotate the tractor over on its back. This force may only lighten the front tires, raise them above the ground a little, or flip you over on your back with a tractor on top of you. Which iof these transpires is a function of height of the tow point, your speed, weight on the front of the tractor and a lot of other things.

If you can tow with the cable NOT ABOVE the center of the axle than the above scenario is reduced to just an abrupt stop and no flipping danger.

Pat

 

[whodat90]

I don't see the safety police as far as a backwards flop. It's inherently self-limiting in that direction; the log hits a snag, pulls the tractor backwards. The front pitches up till the blade digs in, and either the additional drag of the blad overcomes the traction of the tires or it continues to rotate on the blade, whereupon the tires come off the ground and all motive force is lost. Think wheelie bar. It does, however, seem a bit high to me for dragging. All you need is a situation where you're pulling, hit a snag and the device lightens the front a bit, AND one rear tire slips. Suddenly you have an angled pull, pulling above the COG of the tractor.
For dragging logs to the tractor, it seems great. For skidding, I can't help but think I'd rather have an arch-style skidder, like this:
Baker All-Terrain Log Skidder

whodat

 

[patrick_g]

Actually, Whodat, traction is not an issue in the situation that concerned me. With a connection above COG and good forward speed if something stops the log the front will go light, or in the air, or put the tractor on its back (more likely partly sideways due to the wheelie bar effect you mentioned.)

It is wishful thinking to expect that the tractor would ballance on the wheelie bar. It would likely try to roll over backward and to one side or the other instead of ballancing on the wheelie bar.

More likely at moderate speeds you would just lose steering. This colid happen at a time when that could be more than just inconvenient (think running into a large tree or such.

Slow and cautious gets to be too boring. Once you get used to doing the work you tend to drive faster and Murphy steps into the picture. On smooth flat terrain there would probably never be a problem. I seem to not find much work on smooth flat terrain so maybe my outlook is distorted.

Pat
Pat

 

[KentT]

I am not all that experienced in dragging logs but you aren't going to actually use the snatch block as mounted are you? I mean it would surely pull the tractor over backwards. I assume it is a convenient way to haul it.

I couldn't be sure from the pix but isn't the entry point for the cable (in the middle of the fairlead rollers) above the center of the rear axle? So if you ran the cable (without the snatch block) to a log and took up a good strain wouldn't it try to pull the front wheels up off the ground and rotate the tractor around its rear axle and dump you upside down if you didn't shut down? I'm sure you would shut down before disaster struck but why not mount the winch lower?

I'd be concerned that I would lose positive steering control while dragging a heavy log.

Pat

I think he means to lower it to the ground when he is operating it. That large plate/blade on the bottom will rest on the ground, and the more down-pressure the snatch-block puts on it, the farther it will bite into the ground acting as an anchor, and making the log come to the tractor instead of pulling the tractor to the log...

Then, he'll reposition and rehitch to actually pull the log with the tractor, if I understand what he's saying...

I've been considering getting one of these MileMarker's and mounting it on my PT, since I already have the hydraulic circuits. I like the way he's using that plate/blade, so I may try reinforcing the top/back of one of my FEL buckets, so I could use it as an "anchor" also. But, I'd just use the fairlead and no snatch block...

 

[mainiac]

KentT,

You understood how I am using it. And it does bite into the ground. I am very impressed with the pulling power of this winch. I have tried pulling right from the farelead without the snatch block and it would only pull only what the tractor can hold, which at 22 or 23 hundred pounds isn't much I have found. I have been yarning out beech and red maple with it the last couple of days. I have had my tractor for close to seven years now and I am still getting surprised by what it can do.

This was the way to go for my tractor and if anyone that is thinking of using this winch, I would recommend it highly.

PatrickG

I do need to add a couple of grab hooks right below the farelead when it comes to actually pulling anything big with the tractor and I will be chaining up very soon. Frost is setting in and it will be time to get to the back side of the swamp.

Thanks,
Mainiac

 

[patrick_g]

maniac, Frost setting in... I hear that! We are under a severe winter storm warning. We are likely to have an ice storm as temps are going to dive big time and freezing rain is forecast. It was pretty waarm today with south winds gusting over 20MPH by my annemometer. The weekend and the next week or two may be just like as if we were in winter.

I don't log as much as you so I just use a chain and drag 'em. Sometimes from the receiver hitch in back and sometimes from the front (backing up). I have tried hooking a short chain to the FEL and elevating it a bit to try to keep from plowing so much but as you can imagine that is not good for large logs.

I have a 12,000 lb winch on the front of my 1 ton Dodge/Cummins 4x4 and have got it hot enough on a big log to get a little smoke out of it. Since I changed sawyers and the new guy is limited to 12' 2", dragging and loading got a bit easier since I cut to size in the woods. No more 20+ footers but that is fine for my purposes as I am looking for finish wood not structural beams.

Pat

 

[erich]

There is a Ferguson winch on ebay that is very similar.

eBay: Ferguson Tractor Winch (item 260069900672 end time Jan-14-07 13:00:00 PST)


Eric