Mile Marker winch done

[wkpoor]

I'm curious about using the same exact winch powered from my remotes. The specs say 1500lbs. Is that a minimum or maximum. My Deere is 2850lbs.

 

[patrick_g]

wkpoor, Winches are listed by their maximum line tension (pulling force.) Specsmanship gets involved and they will rate the winch with all the line spooled out so the effective "gear ratio" or lever arm of the drum radius gives more pulling power than when the drum is full of cable.

Remember you probably aren't lifting your vehicle vertically in the air ("The Gods Must Be Crazy II") so you don't have to have a rating larger than your gross weight. The force required to roll or drag something is typically less than its weight (often much less.)

That said... I have a 12,000 lb Warn winch on my 1 ton truck and it is N O T too much winch. I could use MORE PULL! Luckily it came with a good snatch block so if I am not too far from what I am hooking up to I can double the pulling power to 24,000 lbs.

Even with only 12,000 lbs I can winch the truck (in park with brakes set) to the load rather than vice versa. YOu may want to have enough chain or rope or ... to tie the vehicle with winch to a tree or something. I am going to make a Danforth style boat anchor (greatest straight line pull for pound of anchor weight) so us to hold the truck from going to the load rather than vice versa. Similar are used by serious off roaders. What good is a winch for self rescue is there isn't anything to hook to????

Pat

 

[DraftHorse]

Great job on the winch. There is only one thing that bothers me with what I see in the pictures and that is a lack of a backlash guard. In the event (heaven forbid) that while you are winching out something under tension and the cable should come loose or break, the cable would shoot back like a bullet.

I have looked at the commercial winches and all have some sort of operator guard with it.

I think if you added a frame with expanded metal to your winch that is high enough to protect you while you are seated would go along way from having a really bad day.

 

[patrick_g]

My winch (electric) came with a control socket with weather cover and a long remote cable so you can stand way off to the side to winch in or out. This gets you of to the side away from the path of the hook should something let go. A shield is a good idea but there can be tremendous forces involved so it needs to be substantial. I like to be out of the way. I can buy a new grill, radiator, or windshield or whatever except a new me. With a hydraulic winch with manual controls you ARE LIKELY to be in harms way so think about self defense.

Pat

 

[MJPetersen]

I was thinking along the line of some protection for the operator too in the event that a cable let go--even if it does not break but just slips there is a tremendous force and speed. I saw a 1 1/4 inch cable on a D8 winch Cat that broke while skidding logs and that operator learned why they put that heavy mesh on the back side!! It sounds like a whip crack.

Mike

 

[wkpoor]

What I was referring to was can a winch rated for 1500lbs. pressure input handle the extra pressure or will it risk failure. My tractor puts out 2850lbs. hydraulic pressure. Sometimes those ratings are mins and just means more work done. I notice the Ramsey has a built in pressure relief and is rated at 2500lbs.

 

[patrick_g]

aw a 1 1/4 inch cable on a D8 winch Cat that broke while skidding logs and that operator learned why they put that heavy mesh on the back side!! It sounds like a whip crack.

Mike

There was an interesting episode of "Myth Busters" on the infamous breaking cable. You want excitement? Be on the flight deck when a landing A/C breaks an arresting cable!

Pat

 

[MJPetersen]

So I have heard, but have never seen. I did see this and that impressed me and makes me think when I am in that kind of situation.

Mike

 

[mainiac]

Well, believe it or not, my little tractor was able to hold the load enough for me to break my 1/2" cable 2 days ago. I was trying to winch a 18" red maple leaner and had to double up the line to get enough pull to pull the butt out from under it. Fetched up on a stump under the snow I didn't see. Snap and the cable had about a 3' recoil then went dead on the ground.

I am sure there are other applications the would create more snap back, but I don't think it is mine. I spent 5 years in the Navy all on a surface ship and we had to have snap back training every year. Most training was for nylon rope and not on wire rope(some, but the concern wasn't as great). Catch cables on carriers are way over abused and has special training just for them.

I have been able to hook up 2 18"x20' red maples to skid out. Wouldn't want more than that. I could only do 1 beech tree 18" at a time though. That beech is heavy.

Now its rainy

 

[patrick_g]

maniac, I did 10 years of SAR in San Diego area with USCG and we used nylon tow ropes for towing in distressed vessels. Nylon stretches and stores a lot of energy which can be released in a hurry. Requires disciplined use. When you first hook up to a disabled vessel and take a strain in the line we would back off and let the line dip in the water and then have another go at it. When the line hit the water it was so hot it made steam!

Woe unto the bozo who let the distressed vessel crew attach the tow line to anything not up to the task; like light deck hardware, cleats and such. They made great incoming rounds when they came off and were shot toward the towing vessel.

Pat

 

[mainiac]

I never saw a line part except on videos, but have seen 3" mooring line slim down to what looked like 1.5". No one was brave(stupid) enough to get close enough to measure it. I can just imagine the energy stored up in line at that moment.

That Myth Busters show should have looked at the snap back reports from the maritime industry.

Mainiac.

 

[patrick_g]

That Myth Busters show should have looked at the snap back reports from the maritime industry. Mainiac.

They did show footage on an aircraft carrier where an arresting cable broke and whipped across the deck. A couple white hats with quick reflexes jumped up into the air and the cable whipped by just below them. Quick reflexes do help.

There is a technique that "advanced" off-roaders use to get a vehicle unstuck. You attach a nylon rope or strap, with plenty of slack, between the stuck vehicle and the rescue vehicle. The rescue vehicle sprints forward, tensioning the nylon and putting on the brakes when forward motion is lost. The terrific line tension gives quite an assist to the stuck vehicle, much more than simply having the rescue vehicle take an even strain till it spins its wheels.

This method is not limited to the rescue vehicle's traction in a static pulling situation. It can work very well indeed but there is a down side. If the line parts it can be dangerous and if a tow hook comes loose from its attachment point, at either end, you have a lethal missile traveling at something like Mach I. One report I read told of a hook going through the back window of a pickup, through the back seat, and through the windshield, narrowly missing the driver's head.

The safest way to employ this technique is to "TIE" the line and not use metal hooks or carry a line with good eye splices. The line should be attached as low as possible to each vehicle. NEVER secure a line to the roll bar as that will "loft" a parted line and increase the probability of collateral damage.

About that chafed mooring line... What about anti-chafing gear? Where mooring lines come over the gunn'ls (gun whales) or cross each other and might touch they should be protected by anti-chafing gear. Someone was not doing a good job and should have been reprimanded and given some proper training.

I used to use lengths of hose split in a slight spiral on small craft. Ship chandlers sell leather kits to be laced in place for small craft. Much neater looking than hose but expensive and not as long lasting.

Pat

 

[Ken S.in Ky.]

Mainiac:
That is one great job on the winch. Hope you don't mind me getting some ideas from it. Had been thinking of making one similar to it on a little bigger scale sence my tractor is 55 hp.
Keep up the great fabrication work guy.

Ken S.

 

[mainiac]

Thanks Ken,

You can use any of the ideas that you find on this BB. That is what it is for. Sharing ideas so that we can learn something new every day.

That said, with a bigger(much) tractor than mine, it opens up alot as to how much room you have to work with. I crammed my winch in behind my lift arms to minimize the weight impact on how much I can lift.

A couple of things to keep in mind if you can work it into your design is that if you can get your fairlead 10"-12" away from the winch,it will help when winching in to keep your cable layered the way it should be. To get more pulling power from your winch, you want the rig to dig into the ground somehow. Your tractor can hold alot more than mine on its own as mine only weighs about 2700lbs the way it sits now, but to give you an idea the of the difference, I put my plow truck weighing about 12k lbs (900lb plow-sander with 3500 lbs of sand) into a ditch and a F-350 could not pull me out so we block and tackled my cable and set the brakes with that back blade digging and was able to winch it out.

Deerlope's design sure is nice for a bigger tractor too. I would check it out.
Also, do a search for K7147 and see how he mounted his. If it had not been such a weight impact onto my FEL (about 100lbs out of 600 is a big impact to me) I would have thought more about putting it out there like his.

I still get amazed as to what my 21hp Kubota will do. I do want a bigger tractor more because I find myself needing bigger equipment and am wanting to run a chipper. Not quite enough hp on the PTO(17) for a self feeder and I really do NOT like using the toss and duck types.

Mainiac

 

[ovrszd]

Well, believe it or not, my little tractor was able to hold the load enough for me to break my 1/2" cable 2 days ago. I was trying to winch a 18" red maple leaner and had to double up the line to get enough pull to pull the butt out from under it. Fetched up on a stump under the snow I didn't see. Snap and the cable had about a 3' recoil then went dead on the ground.

I am sure there are other applications the would create more snap back, but I don't think it is mine. I spent 5 years in the Navy all on a surface ship and we had to have snap back training every year. Most training was for nylon rope and not on wire rope(some, but the concern wasn't as great). Catch cables on carriers are way over abused and has special training just for them.

I have been able to hook up 2 18"x20' red maples to skid out. Wouldn't want more than that. I could only do 1 beech tree 18" at a time though. That beech is heavy.

Now its rainy

I extreme 4 wheel with Jeeps almost every weekend. I use the same MM winch on my newest Jeep as you have. I have also broken cable. The pulling power of that winch in low side is astronomical!!! But I digress. To prevent cable snap during an extremely hard pull, throw your coat over the cable out away from the winch about halfway to the hook. The weight of the coat or jacket will stop the cable recoil. I know it sounds silly!!! But it works great.

Good choice on your winch. I challenge you to wear that winch out or break it. Mine is the 75 series with solenoids. It could be used in a Power Beyond situation and not require a valve. The valve would then be on the winch. This would have only required two hoses to hook into the power beyond. Also could be hooked into a control valve and bungee the handle into a power position. But I like your setup a lot!!! Good job!!! Also really like the anchor blade idea, I would trust this setup completely.

 

[montejw]

KentT,

You understood how I am using it. And it does bite into the ground. I am very impressed with the pulling power of this winch. I have tried pulling right from the farelead without the snatch block and it would only pull only what the tractor can hold, which at 22 or 23 hundred pounds isn't much I have found. I have been yarning out beech and red maple with it the last couple of days. I have had my tractor for close to seven years now and I am still getting surprised by what it can do.

This was the way to go for my tractor and if anyone that is thinking of using this winch, I would recommend it highly.

PatrickG

I do need to add a couple of grab hooks right below the farelead when it comes to actually pulling anything big with the tractor and I will be chaining up very soon. Frost is setting in and it will be time to get to the back side of the swamp.

Thanks,
Mainiac

It looks like when you lift the log up to the frame you will hang it from the hooks at the top of the frame. That will work to keep the log up off the ground.

What I would do also is add 2 more hooks to the frame down low, just above the lower 3pt arms. Now when you have the log tight against the frame hook 2 more short sections of chain from those lower grab hooks to the choker chain that you have around the log holding it up. Those lower chains will be the ones doing the actual pulling, so they will be pulling from down low, and actually be pulling through the lower arms. Right now the upper grab hooks will be putting most of the pull through the top link.

The lower pull chains may have to be hooked up to your lifting choker chains with a quick link or something. Or use a grab hook, but hook them up before you have the choker chain(s) tight.

Monte

 

[mainiac]

I have found one complaint to my milemarker winch. It is the way they have attached the cable to the drum. It came with a crimped on battery cable end and I know to leave 3-4 wraps of cable on the drum, but when I get down that close, the cable goes slack and has worked the fitting off the end of the cable. MileMarker needs to come up with a mechanical type of attachment so changing out cable is easier or field repairs are easier. I lost a half a day trying to find a way to attach the cable again. I ended up with a grounding block that electricians use.

Mainiac

 

[ovrszd]

I have found one complaint to my milemarker winch. It is the way they have attached the cable to the drum. It came with a crimped on battery cable end and I know to leave 3-4 wraps of cable on the drum, but when I get down that close, the cable goes slack and has worked the fitting off the end of the cable. MileMarker needs to come up with a mechanical type of attachment so changing out cable is easier or field repairs are easier. I lost a half a day trying to find a way to attach the cable again. I ended up with a grounding block that electricians use.

Mainiac

Yep, I totally understand. The first time I needed to run my cable out all the way I did the same thing. Since then I have painted all of the first wrap and the first couple rounds of the second wrap flourescent pink. When I see pink cable coming off the spool I know to be extra careful. I agree with you that they should have done a better job of fastening the cable. Looks like something I would have cobbled up!!!!