mig welders?

escavader · Aug 12, 2005

Im from the old school where we use cutting torchs and ark welders.I HAVE LEARNED TO WELD SOME PRETTY THIN STUFF WITH MY OLD TOMB STONE over the years,but lets face it it aint easy.
Just bought a sheet of diamond plate,and im going to roll that cab off my old ford plow truck and weld all new floors on it,to make it better than new again.Why not she stays in the yard,and isnt exposed to salt anymore,probably will out last me.
I gotta face the facts i need something that will weld thin stuff easy,what do you think i ought to get?Will a gasless wirefeed do it or not?Saw a clark in NORTERN H that looked pretty sweet,with regulaters,stand and the works..1o yr warrenty.Do i need something that fancy in my garage,probably will only do body work with it,cause i love my old lincoln ark.
ESCAVADER

bobodu · Aug 12, 2005

If folks will see the welds,I'd go with the MIG.
Floor boards don't need to be pretty,and I'd save the money.
"MIG for pretty,stick for strong."

AntrimMan · Aug 13, 2005

I would look for a cheap Camry with a plow attached.
I am going to force my redneck neighbor in NJ to sell his.

Seriously, all you need is good enough to keep the mice out really. Why not get some bronze rod and use the torches to tack it all over the place? Or tack it all over the place with your stick. Even with the mig you will only tack and stitch all over the place anyway. Now if you get a nice tig you will be able to run a continuous bead maybe.
All I have ever used on sheet metal is o/a, bronze rod, some clamps and a belly stick. I hung rear panels just fine that way on my '69 camaro.
The easy solution is to use pop rivets. No fires that way and you can leave the cab in place.

Face it. You want a mig welder for all those other uses like making christmas presents out of rebar.

Stop by a body shop and see what they use and then make up your mind. It'll only take a few minutes.

All the best.
Martin

knucklehead · Aug 13, 2005

Borrowed torches and a coat hanger as rod always kept my 2wd '76 Toyota on the road.

I'm thinking about MIG for thin stuff, too, after I "recover" financially from building a shed. I was in to Maine Oxy this Spring and they are pushing the Millers. They even bad mouthed the Hobarts a little. Funny thing is when I was in there a few years ago they were dumping on the Lincolns and pushing the Hobarts. I think it matters which guy you get when you walk in. I know a body guy who works on bikes and he loves his Hobart Handler. I have friend who swears by his Lincoln wire feeder.

I'd say pick one - there may be deals at the fairs right now, too.

My Ford's an 87 F150 and it just flunked inspection badly. They don't have any sense of humor about frame holes and a little body cancer here and there. Can't stop it in the Winter, as long as I keep about 400# of old chimney block chained just inside the tailgate.

MadReferee · Aug 14, 2005

( "MIG for pretty,stick for strong." )

That statement is so much hogwash that it doesn't even deserve a further response. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

BigDogues · Aug 14, 2005

Well I'll chime in here to say no matter what process you use proper weld prepping is key. With MIG if you don't have a good weld prep and weld without enough heat or the correct wire (which unfortunately a lot of people often do...) you welds can end up basically sitting on top of the material that you are welding and have little to no strength at all. Same can be said for stick. The real goal of welding is to combine the two pieces to be as one, not to just stick them together. And if you grind your welds to make them pretty and you have no penetration... well just forget about it.
My personal favorite is TIG but it requires some practice. And even with TIG proper weld preparation doesn't hurt.
So okay, what do I mean by proper weld preparation? Ideally a chamfer on the parts that you are welding makes all the difference in the world. It allows you to achieve greater penetration and therefore a stronger weld. This really becomes important when making a butt weld. On 1/4" stock for instance, I like to have at least a 3/32" chamfer on the edges being welded. Inside corner fillets have an advantage of greater area where the weld is sticking the two pieces together, but again having some weld prep allows greater penetration. And it's all about penetration. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike_C · Aug 14, 2005

I prefer MIG for thin, although I don't have access to one any more. I took welding in high school, gee that was 23 years ago, and really liked the MIG.

And I agree with Madreferee, you can make some darned strong welds with MIG. I built a street rod years ago, and took the rear end out of a Chevy Caprice, cut off the coil spring pads, and welded on the leaf spring pads with a MIG to mount in a Camaro.
The engine had so much power that I bent a driveshaft, but those welds never broke.

Mike_C · Aug 14, 2005

One more thing, I don't like brazing. Every time I melted a brass rod instead of welding, the brass cracked when subjected to the slightest force because it was not strong enough. I gave up on brazing years ago. If you want it to last, weld it.

txdon · Aug 14, 2005

I made a tooth bar with a MIG. It is strong but not pretty (so much for the reverse theory). I got good penetration on clean thick metal. Did you see the MIG welded (butt) mailbox I set my tractor on? (Strong and pretty, with a bit of grinding /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

theonlybull · Aug 15, 2005

brazing will be as strong as the base metal, if it done correctly.

if this is for a yard truck, just rivet the patches on.....

Farwell · Aug 15, 2005

When I started brazing as a kid I would melt the brass and build a puddle instead of getting the base metal hot enough for the brass to flow on it. I agree if the brazing is done correctly it is very strong. In emergencies I have even used copper electrical wire as rod and it has held up for thirty years or more.
Farwell

Wannafish · Aug 15, 2005

Brazing, when done properly, will only provide a joint as strong as the filler metal. Arc/Mig (again, when done properly) will provide a joint as strong as the base metal.

Mike_C · Aug 15, 2005

I used to try brazing the exhaust pipes onto the header flanges on my Camaro, and the constant flexing of the pipes each time I rev'd up the engine would cause the brass to crack. It just could not take the torquing I was giving it. I'm pretty sure I had the metal hot enough.

uhmgawa · Aug 16, 2005

( If folks will see the welds,I'd go with the MIG.
Floor boards don't need to be pretty,and I'd save the money.
"MIG for pretty,stick for strong." )

I'd hazard where you are drawing this view would
be from commonly available equipment. Inexpensive
240V input stick welders are available which can muster
200+ amps AC output even if at comical duty cycles.

Inexpensive MIG machines are usually 120V input
which limits output current in the 100A DC ballpark.
240V MIG machines certainly exist however they are
less common.

MadReferee · Aug 16, 2005

( 240V MIG machines certainly exist however they are
less common. )

Actually, most MIG units 150-175 amps and all units over 175 amps are 230/240v machines and they are the most popular with those who do serious hobby and professional fabrication. Also to weld more than 1/4" the 230/240v machines are the most efficient.

have_blue · Aug 16, 2005

( And I agree with Madreferee, you can make some darned strong welds with MIG. )

By pre-heat the thick stuff with a torch, and you can penetrate real good. Even a little pre-heating can help, if you are welding on something that is heat sensitive.

GeneD14 · Aug 16, 2005

( ( And I agree with Madreferee, you can make some darned strong welds with MIG. ) )

I was a manager at a large heavy metal fabrication plant and all of the welding on armour plate from 1/2" to 2" was done with MIG because of the speed, weld quality, penetraition. These MIG machines were big Lincoln 3 phase industrial models. In heavy fabrication of equipment MIG is the industry standard. It's not just for looks.

uhmgawa · Aug 16, 2005

( Actually, most MIG units 150-175 amps and all units over 175 amps are 230/240v machines and they are the most popular with those who do serious hobby and professional fabrication. Also to weld more than 1/4" the 230/240v machines are the most efficient.)

Agreed. My point was the proliferation of low-cost 120V
MIG welders seems to have created this misconception of
MIG being a light duty operation.

Or stated a bit differently, if you need to weld thick
sections the cheapest machine to acquire is going to
be a 240V AC buzz box.

uhmgawa · Aug 16, 2005

( In heavy fabrication of equipment MIG is the industry standard. It's not just for looks. )

At the other end of the spectrum is the ability to
dial down the feed/current of a MIG machine in
order to make fairly intricate operations.

I had a sliding mechanism with worn flanges
which needed to be restored to the size of about
1mm^3. I was able to build up a the area via a
MIG-applied bead and afterwards grind it to shape.
As the base metal was about #24 attempting this with
a stick would have likely obliterated the base in the
process.

Soundguy · Aug 16, 2005

( I HAVE LEARNED TO WELD SOME PRETTY THIN STUFF WITH MY OLD TOMB STONE over the years,but lets face it it aint easy.
)

I weld thin metal al the time with either the 30a or 70a setting on mi stick welder.. and either 1/16 or 5/64 sticks.

Soundguy