Mig welder versus stick welder

[Deerlope]

Both types have their place in the shop, but I prefer the stick for maint work due to the varity of different rods that can bought. I never had any luck welding cast with a mig. Nichol stick rod always worked the best for me on cast.

 

[mygoatboy]

Thank you for all your help. But now I need to decide whether it is worth it to get an AC/DC stick welder or just an AC. Any thoughts?

 

[Spiffy]

DC is often the better tool for the job, so if you can find a good deal on the AC/DC that would be perfect.

Else, if you can pick up a good old AC dirt cheap you can't go wrong. Just be sure to sock away the savings for you're next toy [pronounced: tool], be that an AC/DC, a small mig to complement the stick, or a big mig as your "primary" machine, then I think you'll be happy with your choice. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[SnowRidge]

AC/DC. I bought a Hobart Stickmate LX 225 and am very pleased with it.

 

[Highbeam]

I own the AC 225 buzz box. AC welding is great for flat work but the puddle runs too much for off angle stuff. Maybe it is operator error, but I have a hard time making a pretty weld with good penetration unless it is flat or cloase to flat.

Also power requirements. I can throw 225 amps at thick tractor stuff in the field with my buzzbox powered by a costco 5500 watt continuous rated generator. That's right, max output with a cheap Coleman contractor's generator. DC takes more input power for the same output amperage.

I would much rather have the versatility of an ac/dc welder. MIG is great for in the shop, makes pretty welds and is as easy as a hot glue gun.

 

[bobodu]

Buy the AC and add a rectifier for a few more bucks.
Here's a link on how it's done.
Machine Builders Network AC to DC

 

[Deerlope]

Its pretty hard to go wrong with a DC unit. Once you have learn to weld really good with a DC then you can start learning what reversing polarity with further do fo you.

 

[johnday]

DeerLope; The only thing I've done with my Lincoln Idealarc 250 is REP. One of these days for grins, I might try AC just to see how big a mess I can make! With what I weld, REP seems to be the best way.

Mig, I'd like to have one, especially a machine like a Miller 304XMT. Just might have to sell the Lincoln then. But stick is my preferred method for heavy duty welding. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Deerlope]

I have been retired about 3 years now but when I worked I was a maintenance welder, you know old bent, dirty stuff. I had a Linclon 250 Idealarc with a high freq converter for ss and alu. At home now I just have an AC buzz box and I use MG500 rod which is and excellent for flat work and not too bad for vertical and it is real tricky to do overhead but it can be done ,just don't be in a hurry.

 

[hobbyfarm]

Just my $0.02:

When I used to work in the oilfield with a company that built their own trailers; ALL the welding was with stick. Some fender/toolbox material as thin as 12ga and thicknesses up to 1" steel all accomplished with stick. Wide range of positions and material.
I used to have a Lincoln AC225 (until it was stolen) that I bought used and it served me well. Sorry, I don't do auto body work ( I leave that up to the serious pros). Eventually when I replace my welder, it may be another stick, first, then a MIG.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Mig is the easiest to learn )</font>

I'd have to say that was 100% -opinion-.

I tried mig first.. couldn't get the hang of the tip to the work.. kept having long wire.. didn't get the feed control right.. ended up welding so far out the shield gas was disipating.. etc, etc..

I grabbed the electrodes to a big ol lincoln 225 and some 1/8 rod and welded up a trailer ramp that out of 3/8 and 1/2 steel that I still use today, to load my JD-B trike tractor.

Everybody is going to have to simply try, then decide what works best for them.

After welding stick for a few years, I went back and learned mig.. I pretty much only use mig for thin metal, and pipe/conduit.. etc. I still use stick for sheet metal. I can do better sheet metal welding with a 1/16 or 5/64 rod using 30a-70a than i can with mig.

As others pointed out, each has it's uses. Real easy to weld dc stick out in the woods using car batteries... might not be easy to get a huge genny and mig out there.. or a gas powered mig.. etc.

As most know.. sometimes we make repairs on the 'fast and cheap' Nothing like high current and good penetration on bad materials with an old buzz box to glue together 2 pieces of rusty 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch metal faster than you can get your gas bottles turned on and grind the spots clean for the mig.

Soundguy

 

[tractorwheel]

I have never learned to stick weld, however I do my welding with my lincoln electric mig 255. I do not weld for a living, but I do make and fix my own things. This particular welder is not really on the cheap side but it will handle large things as well as the small things. Hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[tractorwheel]

I do agree soundguy. When I first learned to use mig I experienced the 'long wire' scenario. Then of course, quickly learned to always have my small wirecutters on me. I found that if I wasn't careful I would have a long wire lead and sometimes may weld so close that the wire would affix itself to the nozzle. Then I would have to spend the next few minutes scraping and cleaning. I do use a non splatter spray when I can. It helps.


/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

"the less I know the better off I am"

 

[Dargo]

Personally, I think that MIG is only easier on thinner stuff and, if you go to real thin, TIG is easier then. I can actually get the best looking beads with a TIG (looks like stacked dimes), but that takes a bit of practice. On 1/8" through about 1/2" stuff, the only advantage I personally see with a MIG is that I have no slag to hammer off and I have no spatter. Over 1/2", I use my dad's submerged arc machine. It dims all the lights in the neighborhood, but it is relatively easy to get a super smooth, deep penetrating, weld.

All take time to learn. Maybe MIG is more forgiving if you have a big crack you are filling, but it still takes some practice time to get proficient enough for a sound weld. Oh yeah, I did first learn on a stick (arc) machine. It really is pretty easy to learn except for vertical and overhead stuff. Learning overhead is the worst; especially with hot slag dropping in your boots and on your shoulders. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[tractorwheel]

Not to sould ignorant, but exactly what is the tig for? I think it is for welding aluminum? Also, I want to tell ya'll to check out the welding helmet at www.accustrike.com

My husband bought me one of these about 5 years ago and I will never use anything else. I will be doing some repair and add-ons to my little tractor this winter so I will post photo's as I go.

Also, I want to add that the hubby also gave me a mig welding course 101 which lasted about 45 minutes several years ago. The rest has been self taught (trial and error makes good) I want to give him alot of credit for having the patience with me.

Now he is mentioning that ever since he showed me this TBN he never has his turn with the computer anymore. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (i think i am in serious need of TBN annonymous)

 

[bobodu]

If you think TBN is addictive...try this... Machine Builders Network

 

[RedRocker]

TIG stands for tungsten inert gas, you can weld aluminum, stainless, steel and other metals with it.

 

[keeney]

One of the reasons MIG gets a bad rap because everybody thinks its so easy that they don't take the time or effort to set it up correctly. MIG can achieve penetration in thick materials - with the correct size wire, current, and feed rate. How many people bother to change out the wire, rollers, and tip to switch wire sizes when switching base metal thicknesses? You are not going to get very deep into 1/2" steel with 0.025 wire, no matter how high you turn up the voltage! Those who try end up propagating the story that "MIG is for pretty ... ".

Another issue is confusing "pretty" with "strong". Just because the bead is shiny and smooth doesn't mean anything underneath was melted. Beginners can get fooled into thinking they have quickly learned MIG when in fact they have only learned how to lay down a bead, not make a weld. One thing that was told to me that has made a big difference in my weld quality by a more experienced guy was "You have to melt it to weld it". While you are welding, you should literally see the base material actually be melted or even somewhat undercut by the arc and _then_ filled in by metal from the weld puddle. The weld puddle itself isn't good at melting the base metal. The arc needs to hit the base metal, not just the puddle. This is true of all welding techniques. Just melting a bunch of wire on the surface is exactly why detracters call it the "squirt gun".

Outdoors, with any kind of wind, you have to turn up the gas flow rate. A lot. Makes MIG expensive to use outdoors, but still possible. Even indoors, many welding orientations or configurations require higher than normal gas flow. Many don't bother to turn up the gas high enough.

Gasless flux-cored wire is another good option in many circulmstances. Just load up with the gasless wire, close the gas valve, and maybe swap the polarity (as appropriate for the welding situation). The hot flux is much more agressive about cleaning and penetrating poorly-prepped surfaces. Also, the shielding action is much more resistant to wind (exactly like a stick welder). Almost all MIG machines can be used with gasless wire as well. This gives you some of the advantages of DC stick welding and the economy of purchasing only one machine.

You can also buy wire feed setups that are initially setup only for gas-less wire that you can later add the tank and regulator to so as to also have MIG capability.

- Rick

 

[drizler]

You can pick up a nice new Lincoln Tombstone or similar for well under $500 and they are all around for way less on Craigs list. You can pick up a nice 120 v mig that will do (on a good day) up to 1/4" for say $550. With the 110v you can pretty much use it everyplace there is any sort of power and it is great for all the tin and thin stuff where you have to use backer plates with the arc. The tombstone or any arc machine running 220v will do just about anything except for thin tin and sheet. It will do everything else though and is easy to switch back and forth to change needs. You can't do that with the mig. Well, yea you can but it is going to cost you (last I looked) say 3500 bucks and you get to plunk all the cash down at once.
My first weapon of choice is always the tombstone. What I weld is often dirty or rusty and can't be fully cleaned which is the bane of migs. 6011 will blast right through the crud and do the deed. As long as you keep it out of the rain that arc welder will last as long as you do while there is a lot more to go wrong with the much more electronic and mechanical mig. I think between the Tombstone, my Hobart 135 and set of Victor Journeyman torches I don't even have a grand invested .
The only thing I would stay away from is the 220 AC only arc welders. DC gives you so many options when the going gets tough and you just don't get that fine arc on AC current which is probably whey they are so cheap all over Craigs list.

 

[Jesse masterson]

Someone said you'll get better welds with gas compared to flux core wire , I don't exactly agree with that, you get prettier welds yes but better I don't think so! Just my opinion.