MF 165 1975 hydraulic problems

[namyessam]

Also, there are hydraulic lines coming out of the circular plate where the lever is located and I see the port that you were talking about for a pressure gauge.

We are in central North Carolina.

I would get a gage and hook it to the test port and see if the pressure is within specs. I think the book said between 240 and 350 lbs. I will check this when I get home tonight. There are many different pressure specs depending on the tractor and options. Do this before tearing anything apart. If the pump pressure is good it could be the plugged filter screen for the auxiliary pump. The screen is not removable without taking off the lift cover, splitting the tractor and removing the main pump. So if you can solve it the easy way, you'll avoid a lot of work. Taking off the lift cover is heavy and there's some special things to remove internally without damaging some real expensive components. splitting the tractor is another challenge. Keep us posted.

namyessam

 

[namyessam]

I would get a gage and hook it to the test port and see if the pressure is within specs. I think the book said between 240 and 350 lbs. I will check this when I get home tonight. There are many different pressure specs depending on the tractor and options. Do this before tearing anything apart. If the pump pressure is good it could be the plugged filter screen for the auxiliary pump. The screen is not removable without taking off the lift cover, splitting the tractor and removing the main pump. So if you can solve it the easy way, you'll avoid a lot of work. Taking off the lift cover is heavy and there's some special things to remove internally without damaging some real expensive components. splitting the tractor is another challenge. Keep us posted.

namyessam

I rechecked the manual and I'm pretty sure those pressure specs are right. I found a u-tube video someone posted titled massey ferguson 165 independent PTO. There are several he posted but I think it was the one he was checking the pressure with the pressure port on the PTO cover, He ran the engine and read the pressure at 20 bar which converts to 290 PSI. so this falls in the spec of 240 to 350 PSI.

namyessam

 

[klancf51]

I have a MF 135 Deluxe with IPTO. I believe the 135 and 165 share some IPTO parts. The IPTO system consists of a hydraulically actuated clutch, the enagament of which is controlled by a 3-position spool valve. The clutch drum is splined on to the rear of the hydraulic pump camshaft and the friction plate hub is splined on to the front end of the PTO shaft. Hydraulic pressure is supplied by one of the low pressure outlet ports of the Multi-power or auxillary pump at 250 psi minimum (to maintain this minimum pressure, a special valve is built-in to the outlet flow pipe in the Multi-power circuit). The clutch valve is operated by the hand lever on the LHS of the center housing. The IPTO clutch pack contains: 7-Friction Discs, 7-Separator Plates, 11-Needle Rollers, 11-Return Springs, 2-Piston Rings, and 2-Sealing Rings.

The IPTO unit also incorporates a friction brake to stop the PTO shaft when the PTO is disenaged. I've attached picture of the IPTO unit. Hope this helps.

 

[namyessam]

I have a MF 135 Deluxe with IPTO. I believe the 135 and 165 share some IPTO parts. The IPTO system consists of a hydraulically actuated clutch, the enagament of which is controlled by a 3-position spool valve. The clutch drum is splined on to the rear of the hydraulic pump camshaft and the friction plate hub is splined on to the front end of the PTO shaft. Hydraulic pressure is supplied by one of the low pressure outlet ports of the Multi-power or auxillary pump at 250 psi minimum (to maintain this minimum pressure, a special valve is built-in to the outlet flow pipe in the Multi-power circuit). The clutch valve is operated by the hand lever on the LHS of the center housing. The IPTO clutch pack contains: 7-Friction Discs, 7-Separator Plates, 11-Needle Rollers, 11-Return Springs, 2-Piston Rings, and 2-Sealing Rings.

The IPTO unit also incorporates a friction brake to stop the PTO shaft when the PTO is disenaged. I've attached picture of the IPTO unit. Hope this helps.

View attachment 353275

Have you had yours apart? If you have, am I correct in saying the repair will require removal of the lift cover and splitting the tractor. I believe I will need to repair or replace my auxiliary pump since my multi-power does not work properly and this will require the same procedure. I think the OP ultimately has low pressure from the pump and as a result damaged the clutch discs. He asked earlier in the thread if the damage could be repaired by a "jack of all trades" mechanic. What do you think?

namyessam

 

[shona13]

G'day powellj5.
The repairs you are considering doing are in my opinion a little bit more than a handyman type task ,you will along the way require a few service tools example to replace the input shaft seals on the front of the gearbox , a bush removing/installing kit used on the pto clutch pack.etc.

The most important thing you will need is a service manual make sure the manual covers your model tractor ,there are two or three diferent types of pumps installed in the 165 , Mark two, Mark three coarse or fine spline drive ??
Also be prepared to either, have made or if you are really lucky ,find second hand parts that are still serviceable, you will find there are a lot of the parts you require are no longer available.
I am not suggesting you do not take the job on I just feel that you should be forewarned ,having been a Massey specialist most of my working life and knowing what you will find.

Before you start anything consider that you are about to meet Big Bill ,this will be an expensive exersize.

The first step would be to check both the pto pump AND the main hydraulic pump, pressures.

To remove the Pumps ,Split the tractor between the REAR of the gearbox and the front of the differential housing ,pushing the two halves well apart say four /five feet give yourself plenty of room Note It is important before you start that you fit wooden wedges between the front axle beam and the axle housing, this will stop the front half tilting and falling of the jack.

That,s all I have at this stage , If you need any information don,t be afraid to shout .
Happy Days.
Hutch.

 

[klancf51]

Shona13 has it right on every count: skills, tools, service literature and cost (the IPTO clutch repair kit alone is close to $300). And it wouldn't hurt to have a helper available. The 165 parts manual will be essential imo: there is no doubt in my mind that there will be seals, gaskets, filters, etc that you should renew on reassembly. I would advise you to read as much service literature as you can get your hands on, inventory your tools and workshop and then decide if you have the skill and resources for this project. Before I start a project like this I make separate, written checklists for: disassembly, repair, and re-assembly. I also prepare a parts list. This takes time, but it prepares me for every step and gives me confidence that I have the correct order of each operation and the required tools, parts, sealants, tightening torque values, etc. I take the checklists to the shop and work off of them, checking off each step as I proceed. If you have questions about a procedure, parts or the order of the steps, you should ask! Break it down so that you know exactly what you are going to do before you loosen a single bolt and you should also have a very good estimate of the project's budget. Last but not least is safety! These castings are heavy. Incorporate safety into every step!


This repair and service will require splitting the tractor between the transmission and center housing. Removing the lift cover will only make the job easier in my opinion. As Shona13 suggests, checking the hydraulic pressure is relatively easy and you should do this before any disassembly just so that you know what's going on. For the IPTO, the outlet port pressure should be: 250 psi @ 550 RPM and 360 @ 2000 RPM. I do not have Multi-power on my 135, so I can't speak to that.

Best of luck!