MF 165 1975 hydraulic problems

[powellj5]

I own a 1975 MF 165 tractor that I have owned since 2009. When I first bought it I noticed a few problems in using the PTO (bush hogging), but it was not severe enough to do anything about it. These problems are getting worse and I am at the point where I need to do something about it. Here's what it's doing:
1. PTO won't stop turning after I move the lever to stop it and it is slow to start when I move the lever to start it.
2. The PTO shaft stops turning when going downhill (overfilling the hydraulic fluid fixes it)
3. In heavy grass the PTO shaft slips - I hear gear noise. It's not a traditional grinding noise, but more like a knocking. I have PTO clutch on my bush hog drive shaft to protect PTO.

I would like to do the work myself. This will be a first for me. Are the service manuals that I can download good enough to guide me through the process? Will this involve split the tractor?

 

[namyessam]

I own a 1975 MF 165 tractor that I have owned since 2009. When I first bought it I noticed a few problems in using the PTO (bush hogging), but it was not severe enough to do anything about it. These problems are getting worse and I am at the point where I need to do something about it. Here's what it's doing:
1. PTO won't stop turning after I move the lever to stop it and it is slow to start when I move the lever to start it.
2. The PTO shaft stops turning when going downhill (overfilling the hydraulic fluid fixes it)
3. In heavy grass the PTO shaft slips - I hear gear noise. It's not a traditional grinding noise, but more like a knocking. I have PTO clutch on my bush hog drive shaft to protect PTO.

I would like to do the work myself. This will be a first for me. Are the service manuals that I can download good enough to guide me through the process? Will this involve split the tractor?

I am not real familiar with your tractor but I do own a 135 and the 165 is covered in my repair manual. I did some reading and have some questions for you. Does your tractor have independent PTO. According to the manual, with this PTO you should pull the lever to the rear to engage the PTO and forward to disengage. On a standard PTO, the lever should have 3 positions possibly, ground speed, neutral, and engine speed. Do you have Multi-power on the tractor and does it work?

From what I read with the independent PTO when you stop the PTO it engages a brake to keep the PTO from turning. You say the PTO does not stop turning when you stop it. Thats clue number one. If you have Multi-power and it doesn't work, thats clue number 2. You also state that in heavy grass the PTO stops turning. From what I hear you describe and from what I have read, I suspect you have independent PTO. The books says the independent PTO is a hydraulicly operated brake and clutch. Both the multi-power (if you have it) and the independent PTO are run by an auxiliary pump in the differential. If the pump pressure is weak it would not engage the brake for the PTO enough to keep the PTO from turning and would stop turning in heavy grass. I am not sure but you may be able to have independent PTO and not have multi-power. I found that if you have to rebuild the independent PTO clutch it would require splitting the tractor. If the auxiliary pump is bad I believe you would also need to split the tractor.

It may be that you have a standard PTO and there is something wrong with the PTO part of your 2 stage clutch. Do you have to press the clutch all the way down to engage the PTO? If this is the problem, You would have to split the tractor at the clutch housing.

Have you ever changed the transmission-hydraulic fluid since you have owned it and is it the correct oil and correct level on the dipstick?

The fact the PTO stops going downhill has me baffled.

Hope this give you something to check out untill someone with more knowledge chimes in.

Happy New Year

namyessam

 

[namyessam]

I have a thought about the going down hill and the PTO stops. If you have independent PTO the auxiliary pump has a screen to filter incoming oil to the pump. This screen could be partially plugged and when going down hill the oil in the transmission flows to the front of the tractor. If the lower part of the filter is plugged the reduced oil level could prevent succifient amount of oil getting to the auxiliary pump, thus loosing pressure. Just a thought.

namyessam

 

[powellj5]

Thanks for your response.

I don't have multipower. From what you describe I must have an independent PTO. I have changed the hydraulic oil, but in order to keep the PTO running going downhill I had to overfill it. Overfilling fixed it for almost 2 years, but now it's not working so well.

I see the repair manuals for sale. I have repaired a lot of my own equipment in the past and I don't want to pay the MF dealer if I don't have to. I have never worked on this tractor at this level before.

With a good repair manual is this something that can be feasibly done by a "jack-of-all-trades" mechanic?

 

[namyessam]

Thanks for your response.

I don't have multipower. From what you describe I must have an independent PTO. I have changed the hydraulic oil, but in order to keep the PTO running going downhill I had to overfill it. Overfilling fixed it for almost 2 years, but now it's not working so well.

I see the repair manuals for sale. I have repaired a lot of my own equipment in the past and I don't want to pay the MF dealer if I don't have to. I have never worked on this tractor at this level before.

With a good repair manual is this something that can be feasibly done by a "jack-of-all-trades" mechanic?

Further reading in the I & T manual I have says that the tractors were available with Multipower only, Multipower and independent PTO, Multipower, independent PTO and auxiliary hydraulics or Multipower and auxiliary hydraulics. Based on this info, you cannot have independent PTO if you don't have Multipower.

If in some case the Multipower has been disconnected, How do you engage the PTO does the lever have Ground and Engine and center neutral position. If not, it could be somehow independent PTO. Is there a hydraulic port on the cover for the PTO lever. If there is, this is where a hydraulic gage can be hooked to test pump pressure for the auxiliary pump.

The overfilling baffles me if you don't have independent PTO.

I could not afford to pay someone to work on my tractor either. I guess I'm pretty handy with my hands and have split the tractor and replaced the clutch and rebuilt the engine completely. The big thing is to have the necessary flat concrete floor with plenty of jacks and blocking to move the tractor halfs away from each other safely enough to prevent an accident while working on it.

namyessam

 

[powellj5]

What you say makes sense. I have never used multi-power feature on my tractor. There is an open slot on my dash for it, but there is no lever. I figured that my model didn't come equipped with this option, but sounds like it was disconnected.

Thanks for your input. I think the first step for me is to get a shop manual.

 

[namyessam]

I think all tractors came with the slot. It seems I have read that some had cover plates over them. Like the book says you should not have independent PTO if you don not have multipower.

The real key to determine the type of PTO is the cover. You have not answered that question and I would like to know to see if my suspicions are correct. Does it have three positions Engine neutral and Ground or does it have an on and off position with some hydraulic lines coming out of it. Like I said in earlier posts, it doesn't make sense that it works with the hydraulic fluid level high if it is a standard PTO.

If you are going to attempt any kind of repair, a manual is a must. Most people recommend the official Massey Ferguson manual, I have an I & T manual, and it states its for the experienced mechanic. I would agree with that. It is vague at times and hard to understand. Keep us posted with what you find.

namyessam

P.S. Where are you located?

 

[powellj5]

The PTO has 2 positions only - no third position. I was looking on my tractor last night and I don't see any linkages,rods or actuators for multipower.

 

[powellj5]

Also, there are hydraulic lines coming out of the circular plate where the lever is located and I see the port that you were talking about for a pressure gauge.

We are in central North Carolina.

 

[namyessam]

Also, there are hydraulic lines coming out of the circular plate where the lever is located and I see the port that you were talking about for a pressure gauge.

We are in central North Carolina.

Then it looks like you have independent PTO for sure. You could drain the eight gallons of trans oil and rinse the rear end with diesel fuel. some say add two gallons and let soak. I took a hand garden tank sprayer and filled it with diesel and sprayed down the inside real good and washed the filter for the auxiliary pump hoping that would solve my problem but it didn't. There is also another filter screen for the main hydraulics that could be removed and cleaned while you have it drained. The top cap is retained by a wire to keep it from unscrewing. be sure to replace it. There was one poster that bought a tractor that it came unscrewed and prevented the engagement of his PTO.

namyessam