MF 1250 Coolant Leak

[carolinarider]

1998 MF Tractor Model 1250 -Iseki TK532 3 cylinder 91.5 ci 490 hours on the tractor

Today i was using the tractor to move some items around. When I pulled the tractor back into the "garage" I notice a wet spot where the tractor was parked (when I was warming it up). I stopped the tractor and turned it off and there was warm water dripping down from the engine area. Pulled the side covers and notice nothing unusual.

Checked the hoses and they appeared intact. Started the engine again and looked to see if I could see any leakage. I could not really see any leaks but some "steam" under the water pump area.

Engine coolant temperature was low on the peg before I started it the first time and was in the normal range as I operated it and after I re-started it.

I am assuming the water pump seal is leaking and I should replace the water pump.

From what I have read here it appears I should take the radiator out and have it serviced since it would be easier to replace the water pump with it out and of course new hoses.

Any other suggestions or hints about possible problems other than the water pump?

I took a picture of the area but it does not show much.

 

[carolinarider]

I have been trying to find someone to help me repair my tractor since the end of January. Finally found a local person that said he might be able to do the work. He came around about two weeks ago and we discussed what parts I might need. I ordered the coolant hoses and they came in about a week ago. Notified him that the parts where here and he said he might drop by by the end of last week.

So, its been about a week and a half so I decided to tackle the project myself. If it was just a leaking hose, should be no problem. Today I pulled the hose and found that the water pump was "eroded" away under the hose (see attached picture).

Called a new place near McConnells, SC to see if I could get the parts in faster than the last place (it took over a week to get the parts). After looking up the part (water pump) he told me the price ($!75) and I asked if that was a Massey Ferguson OEM part and he said no, that part would be $375. He told me that they used the non OEM parts for most repairs unless it was something like clutches (I guess the real important parts). I was about to tell him to go ahead and order it. Then he stopped and said, he did have the OEM part on the shelf. (Apparently someone ordered it and did not like the price). So, Thursday I will have the new water pump.

The first part of the repair, I have done myself. It was not hard to pull the top off and get to the hose off the pump and radiator which is when I found the eroded pipe on the water pump.

So, my tractor has been "down" since January 28th and I am a little closer to getting it operating again. But not close enough. This process has been extremely tedious. When I purchased the tractor I noted the there were several MF dealers around, one in town (about 8 miles away) and one about 15 miles away. The one in town closed down about 10 years ago. The one about 15 miles away does not "transport" tractors for work. The original dealer does but...

I hope the tractor will be up and running in a few weeks. At that time it will have been almost two months of not have the use of the tractor.

I asked the dealer (the one in McConnell, SC) about transport to his place and it was quoted a $3.00 per loaded mile. Which would, for me, be about $420. I don't know if that is good or bad.

He is not the person I bought the tractor from. I would have liked to use them but they made the error when I ordered the original parts so it took an additional week to get the parts I did order from them.

 

[carolinarider]

Update:

Picked up the water pump on Thursday and verified it was the correct version for my tractor. But. there were two parts that he did not suggest I order/replace and did not have in stock. One was an "O" ring and the other was a closed end hose that goes over one part of the pump were the return line to the radiator is. I suppose it is for some additional cooling needs I don't have on my tractor.

Over the last two days I have pulled the front grill, the radiator and basically gotten the engine ready for the water pump replacement. I was impressed at the bolts being uniformly the same basic size (socket/wrench size) and, in general, the same length for mounting (based on component) which means you can keep the parts segregated for components and it makes it easier to reassemble.

After pulling the radiator I flushed it with a garden hose (reverse direction of normal flow) and ran the water through it until it was reasonably clear/clean.

Today I pulled the water pump. As I said when I purchased the water pump I made sure it was the same size and shape as the one on my tractor. And I asked about any gasket's or "O" rings when I purchased it and found out there was one and had it ordered.

But what I did not expect is that the water pump is actually a two part attachment/part. As you can see in the attached pictures, there is an add on which is bolted to the water pump which has to be removed from the old pump and reattached to the new one. I will pull it apart today and verify that there is not a gasket or "O" ring between it and the pump. The funny thing is the pump will fit on the mountain locations without the "interface".

 

[carolinarider]

It turns out when you remove the mounting thing there is an "O" ring on the other side of that piece so, two "O" rings are needed to do the job correctly.

 

[carolinarider]

Pictures

 

[def38]

That corrosion looks bad. Do you know what coolant was used and how long was it in the engine? I would flush the system thoroughly once it is back together and leak tight. Then drain and fill with the factory recommended coolant.

 

[carolinarider]

The failure of the water pump inlet is apparently due to corrosion and fluid flow or erosion. The coolant has never been changed so, the might well be the reason for the failure but the only point on the water pump that is heavily eroded is the outlet back to the radiator. The inlet part has some slight corrosion as one wold expect but no general loss of material as seen at the outlet.

However, I will do a flush once I get it back together and tight.

Regarding coolant, the manual calls for 50/50 ethylene glycol. So that is what I will be using.

I have flushed the radiator (reverse flow) using ordinary water but have considered taking it to a shop and have it professional flushed just in case.

It also looks like some posts I have made have repeats. I will fix that today.

 

[def38]

Coolants contain inhibitors that resist corrosion and rust formation. Your photo looks like the part that is so badly damaged is made from low quality cast alloy (pot metal) and has merely eroded away as you suggest. The replacement will bear watching for future corrosion/erosion.

When I bought my used M-F 231S, it had a bullet hole in the radiator core and the cheap plastic drain valve was leaking. For $50.00, my radiator man flushed the rad, repaired the bullet hole and soldered in a new brass drain cock.

I change coolants in my water cooled engines if I suspect the coolant is worn out. The pH buffers and corrosion inhibitors in coolant deteriorate with age and heat cycles. TractrorData lists your cooling system volume as 6.9 quarts meaning your coolant volume is small therefore the coolant gets a workout when the engine is at operating temperature.

Check coolant by draining a small amount into a glass jar and inspecting it for sediment, oil, odor and general appearance (good coolant smells sweet, should have no fuel or oil smell, have good color like the original, worn out coolant smells metallic and looks muddy). If suspect, change it. If OK, pour the coolant back into the radiator.

 

[carolinarider]

Thanks for the information I will put with my manual.

I was considering taking the radiator to a local shop for cleaning, ect. I suspect it will cost more than $50 but I would rather do it when I have it all apart rather than later.

Thanks again.

 

[def38]

rider,

If you forego the rad shop and I would if your M-F was not overheating, once fully back together, use a commercial flush like Prestone or Bar's. If you have alloy components contacted by the coolant, select the flush accordingly.

Don't overlook the thermostat. Make sure it is operational.

I once did a thermostat test on the stove, heating the water, monitoring water temperature with my kitchen thermometer while observing the thermostat operation in the hot water. This was for my 1963 Corvette cooling system...I didn't want any overheating. Worked very well.

 

[carolinarider]

Thanks. I was going to replace the thermostat and O ring because its easy to do and its 20 years old. According to the operating temperature, the unit never over heats (well it does get a little past normal when the screen in front of the radiator gets covered with grass clippings when I see the bush hog). I was heading to the dealer tomorrow and see what the stuff costs.

Will ask his advice on the commercial flush he recommends and let you know just for comparison.

 

[carolinarider]

This is off topic but, as my "handle" implies, I ride a motorcycle and love to travel the country, have been through Alabama several times (hard to put a number on it). Enjoy the northern part, went through Mussel Shoals by accident once and was sort of glad I did (now I always try and include it on my trips just because ), always like the group Alabama. Also tired to find Seven Bridges Road and think I did so I rode it twice.

Thanks for all the information.

Jim

 

[def38]

I thought you might ride. I have had motorcycles since I was 19. My brother and his friends raced...I built and repaired them.

I started on a Triumph 650CC twin, 1959 vintage. I rode that bike from the Chicago suburbs to Tempe, AZ during my 4 years at Arizona State Univ. My current bike is a BMW twin, the ugly one with cylinders hanging off to the side. Bought it from Lyle Lovett when he owned his m/c shop in the Houston, area. Now, at 80, I ride mostly locally here in Alabama. I may take a ride up to No. Illinois to visit my brother one day. Grew up there and used to enjoy Chicago...now, I would avoid Chicago due to the crime. It is sad our major cities have been overrun by gangs and criminals.

I live in a rural area north of Birmingham, AL with about 7 acres of land. I am planting an orchard having recently cleared the land of the wild growth, brush and junk (bricks, pieces from an old still and Buick hubcaps). This spring, I'll till in the clover cover crop and seed it in Bermuda.

The area was once strip mined of coal when Birmingham was a steel manufacturing city . My land was used for grazing the mules used in the nearby coal washer.

 

[carolinarider]

Interesting! I have about 8 acres here in SC. Mostly wooded. Was a pine forest when I purchased the land, Cleared about two acres (one for house, garage, and drain field) and one for my observatory and "workshop".

I think my place was once a farm because parts are flat with a drop off to the next flat shop (I forget what you call it). I have just let the weeds grow and mow as needed. But it is work keeping the forest reasonable. Small creek on the back of the property just feed with run off.

I purchased a used 2001 BMW R1100RT (old police bike) in 2005 or so. Put about 20,000 miles on it before I sold it. We had a Honda Valkyrie at the time and my wife called the Valkyrie the Clydesdale and the BWM the Gazelle (I retrofitted the BMW with the rear seat). So, those cylinders that "stick out" are pretty cool. They stick out on the Valkyrie but not as much.

 

[def38]

Used police BMW models used to be in high demand. I still prefer the single spark oilheads over the more powerful wet heads. Easier to work on and they will cruise all day at 80MPH two up without issue. My list of bikes included an 1100CC Aspencade my wife bought for me. That was a great two up bike.

As for telescopes, I formed a astronomy club at ASU as part of the science curriculum there. We made two reflector telescopes. Somehow I managed an "A" in the class. We used to take the telescopes out into the desert for nighttime viewing. For some reason, we had more coeds in the club than guys....Oh well. Sorry to see Yerkes ceasing operations. I visited there years ago.

 

[carolinarider]

Interesting, very. I built a couple of reflectors, now have a 10", 12.5" and a 24" DOB. Don't get used much these days my fault.

On a non-related topic. Do you know where I can find the engine number on my 1998 1250? I looked and did not see the kind of number I thought I would find.

 

[def38]

My Perkins engine number is located on the RH side of the engine, above the starter motor, just forward of the lift pump. I don't know the location of the engine number on your machine.

 

[carolinarider]

Thanks. I suspect it might be in the same general location will look again tomorrow. I need it to order the "correct" fan belt.

 

[def38]

Fan belts are usually marked with the necessary nomenclature which guides the autoparts counter guy to the correct length and width belt.

Speaking of belts, I need to replace the OE alternator belt on my BMW before I take any long trip. Oh, and the Maytag clothes dryer (circa 1980) belt is OE. I have spares for both. They are both straightforward replacements. Might as well install the new belt on my riding mower as well. Thanks for the reminder....:wave:

 

[carolinarider]

Fan belts are usually marked with the necessary nomenclature which guides the autoparts counter guy to the correct length and width belt.

Speaking of belts, I need to replace the OE alternator belt on my BMW before I take any long trip. Oh, and the Maytag clothes dryer (circa 1980) belt is OE. I have spares for both. They are both straightforward replacements. Might as well install the new belt on my riding mower as well. Thanks for the reminder....:wave:

I am almost finished with my repair (well got the water pump back on) but ran into a problem with the thermostat. Besides the fact that the O Ring will not stay in its grove (its a very narrow in diameter O Ring), the themorstat is not circular. It will fit in almost anyway but there must be a right way.

Here is a picture.

As you can see it has a wide side and a narrow side. Most i have seen (in cars) are round. Any thought son how to put it in?