Massey Ferguson 1740M Hydro: LOSS OF POWER when hot!

[TopSpeed1]

The darkness to me is a bit concerning as unlike your engine oil I don't think there would be any contaminants that would make hydraulic oil dark, other than if it got too hot at some point.

I'm going to be very interested to hear how your first run on this new fluid goes.

Agree, I did have some metal fragments found in the suction filter. Not sure if this is normal or not?

I'll have these images in my upcoming video on Changing the Hyd. Oil in a Massey 1740M (and 1735M, not sure if the 1750 hold true or not).

 

[TopSpeed1]

Glad to hear you can get yours out without removing the subframe member. It's a real pain to remove.....

In my upcoming video (on the Hyd Oil Change), I'll emphasize and show this bar cutout with the filter sliding thru it.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Still waiting to hear if this machine is under warranty or not..??

Mine is yes, the engine and DT are 5 years and I'm on the inside border of it; barely.

So far, my dealer has charged me $0. Including pickup and delivery.

 

[TopSpeed1]

I think I mentioned this before but it is really worth doing to engage a MF regional service rep. They have a lot of horsepower in terms of resolving issues but aside from that they also have access to a lot larger set of info than the typical dealer. The Regional Rep may very well have seen or heard of this "40 minute symptom" before. I think that is worth a try. Dealer should give you the regional reps phone number.

This may be my final resolution if the Hyd oil change & filters doesn't resolve the issue. My dealer says they want it back, I just don't want another 4 weeks without it, especially in mowing season... hence why I'm tryin everything "I" can do first.

You guys have been great BTW! I want to thank everyone involved in this thread!!!!!
VERY grateful to be here w you all! (or would that be Y'all!)

-KJ Miller

 

[TopSpeed1]

I've got some potential bad news... I don't think this Hyd oil change is going to help. So, I also posted this issue on another Forum, and I had this reply...

2019 Massey Ferguson 1740M Hydrostatic Transmission Question

www.tractorforum.com

 

[JWR]

I've got some potential bad news... I don't think this Hyd oil change is going to help. So, I also posted this issue on another Forum, and I had this reply...

2019 Massey Ferguson 1740M Hydrostatic Transmission Question

www.tractorforum.com

You appear to be kj.2944 in the other forum. I see the distant dealer 92 miles away is going to investigate (having been recommended by the regional MF Rep.) They are leaning toward injection and/or "programming" issues which makes sense to me. Replacing transmissions is/was absurd in my opinion. I say do what the higher ups ion MF tell you and STAY IN THE GUARANTEE.

 

[TopSpeed1]

You appear to be kj.2944 in the other forum. I see the distant dealer 92 miles away is going to investigate (having been recommended by the regional MF Rep.) They are leaning toward injection and/or "programming" issues which makes sense to me. Replacing transmissions is/was absurd in my opinion. I say do what the higher ups ion MF tell you and STAY IN THE GUARANTEE.

Yepper, KJ is my first name. I kept the same avatar. That thread became very interesting to me because that 1740M owner had the shuttle gear drive, and it was happening to his model as well. So deflating as this news was, I felt like we got to cross off the HST causing the issue. I'm not disappointed, I was at 246hrs. anyways, and even tho I did this at 100hrs, I still have a fresh load of Hyd-oil and both filters installed.

So programming was the main thing that my dealer did on the near 4 week hospital stay that incurred w my 1740M. All along, I've been kibbitzing my service Mgr. for the injectors, it will be funny (well not so) if it ends up being that. TWT.

 

[Bavarian]

Out of curiosity, did you or the dealer check the fuel flow from the tank forward?
It sounds like something's getting sucked in and blocking the outlet.
It's been reported multiple times across any brand. It could be shavings from the molding process of the plastic tank.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Out of curiosity, did you or the dealer check the fuel flow from the tank forward?
It sounds like something's getting sucked in and blocking the outlet.
It's been reported multiple times across any brand. It could be shavings from the molding process of the plastic tank.

Not sure exactly what they did TBH, other than they updated the ECM software.

It could be something "starving or slowing up" the fuel delivery, it's funny as it happens always about the same time into mowing, ~40mins. And on a cold day without the A/C on, it's more like 50+ mins.

 

[TopSpeed1]

I'd like to add....

My Dealer; American Equipment in Farmington NY has been very good to me!, and, I'm sure if they had the tractor long enough, they'd figure this puzzle out. My conundrum is that it is smack dab in the middle of mowing season right now, and I can't have weeks away without this tractor. So narrowing this down would be beneficial to both me and my dealer.

 

[Joseph0331]

This may be my final resolution if the Hyd oil change & filters doesn't resolve the issue. My dealer says they want it back, I just don't want another 4 weeks without it, especially in mowing season... hence why I'm tryin everything "I" can do first.

You guys have been great BTW! I want to thank everyone involved in this thread!!!!!
VERY grateful to be here w you all! (or would that be Y'all!)

-KJ Miller

Did you ever get this resolved?

 

[TopSpeed1]

Did you ever get this resolved?

No sir, I told my dealer that we should continue this quest maybe in the dead heat of summer, like when my grass isn't growing as fast and needs almost 2 mowings a week!

Still have no hard leads TBH; as to where or what to point the finger at?. We have had a some other 1735M and 1740M owners come forward and say they have the exact same problem. Hopefully maybe we can get a Massey Ferguson / Agco Rep to take notice!?

 

[Southernspeed]

Just a random thought, but have you checked to see if the fuel bowl is full at the time you're losing power? Should be full with no vacuum space in there. Just thinking back to a problem I had with my last MF.

 

[JWR]

No sir, I told my dealer that we should continue this quest maybe in the dead heat of summer, like when my grass isn't growing as fast and needs almost 2 mowings a week!

Still have no hard leads TBH; as to where or what to point the finger at?. We have had a some other 1735M and 1740M owners come forward and say they have the exact same problem. Hopefully maybe we can get a Massey Ferguson / Agco Rep to take notice!?

This is turning out to be a real ball-buster... I went back over every post in this thread & it is baffling. I'll toss in a couple more thoughts:
1. Absolutely stick with your dealer and service rep in trying to get to the bottom of it (and of course retain guarantee coverage.)
2. I would suggest picking about 5 or 6 key spots [to take temperature with a hand held infrared thermometer] on your transmission, including an underbelly spot where trans fluid would pool in the sump, the side of the engine head, etc. You seem like a guy who would readily "take data" so do that at say 3 time points into one of your mowing days -- 5 minutes in, 20 minutes in and then at least once in the 50 minute range (after the disease has arrived.) After multiple mowing days worth of data are they all the same pattern of temperature progression? Any clues emerge?
3. I confess some ignorance here (thinking of older tractors) but doesn't this one have a governor? Maybe after your 40 minute disease hits, the governor has ceased to function correctly and no longer brings on the rpm boost it should to keep things going ?? [This thought sort of relates to the "reprogramming" your dealer was trying in that the electronics most likely calls for more rpm on a programmed basis much like what old governors once did.] But that takes me right back to the question: Does this tractor have a governor and might it be malfunctioning? Seems to me it might be the governor itself rather than the controls for the governor.

Please keep us updated and of course good luck to ya.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Just a random thought, but have you checked to see if the fuel bowl is full at the time you're losing power? Should be full with no vacuum space in there. Just thinking back to a problem I had with my last MF.

Fuel Bowl? I know what that is in a gas/carbureted model, but being this is diesel so I am clueless. Can you detail more?

 

[TopSpeed1]

This is turning out to be a real ball-buster... I went back over every post in this thread & it is baffling. I'll toss in a couple more thoughts:
1. Absolutely stick with your dealer and service rep in trying to get to the bottom of it (and of course retain guarantee coverage.)
2. I would suggest picking about 5 or 6 key spots [to take temperature with a hand held infrared thermometer] on your transmission, including an underbelly spot where trans fluid would pool in the sump, the side of the engine head, etc. You seem like a guy who would readily "take data" so do that at say 3 time points into one of your mowing days -- 5 minutes in, 20 minutes in and then at least once in the 50 minute range (after the disease has arrived.) After multiple mowing days worth of data are they all the same pattern of temperature progression? Any clues emerge?
3. I confess some ignorance here (thinking of older tractors) but doesn't this one have a governor? Maybe after your 40 minute disease hits, the governor has ceased to function correctly and no longer brings on the rpm boost it should to keep things going ?? [This thought sort of relates to the "reprogramming" your dealer was trying in that the electronics most likely calls for more rpm on a programmed basis much like what old governors once did.] But that takes me right back to the question: Does this tractor have a governor and might it be malfunctioning? Seems to me it might be the governor itself rather than the controls for the governor.

Please keep us updated and of course good luck to ya.

Hi JWR

1. Will do, my dealer has been good to me. And, I have a Youtube channel and have made positive plugs for them previously.
2. I own a laser pointed heat gun, so this would be no problem at all. My concern is that nothing seems like wave like heat coming from anywhere on the engine or tranny. But I can do this.
3. No governor that I'm aware of. Once it goes into this power reduction mode, I think of it more as a "limp mode" kicking in. It's so weird, I need to have a direction to start somewhere, and my dealer should know of any thermo protection thing, right?

Thank you kindly!

 

[JWR]

Hi JWR

1. Will do, my dealer has been good to me. And, I have a Youtube channel and have made positive plugs for them previously.
2. I own a laser pointed heat gun, so this would be no problem at all. My concern is that nothing seems like wave like heat coming from anywhere on the engine or tranny. But I can do this.
3. No governor that I'm aware of. Once it goes into this power reduction mode, I think of it more as a "limp mode" kicking in. It's so weird, I need to have a direction to start somewhere, and my dealer should know of any thermo protection thing, right?

Thank you kindly!

For sure your dealer should know of thermal protection if it is there, AND whether there is a "limp mode" like modern cars/trucks have. Yours does not quite act as extreme as "limp mode" (at least the kind I have had happen on my F-150. It doesn't slow down it goes dead and then can barely be moved after restarting.) I have not heard whether tractors have a 'safe mode' or 'limp mode.'

The data gathering with the laser pointed thermometer that I suggested may very well not show anything remarkable. Just wondering if some pattern might emerge in what has to be a rather wild circumstance.

Have you ever had way to try your machine in real heavy, deep grass or with some other tougher load like a bush hog in heavy brush/deep weeds? I'm wondering if that would bring on the disease quickly OR just confirm the "40 minute rule.?"

 

[Dmacleo]

Fuel Bowl? I know what that is in a gas/carbureted model, but being this is diesel so I am clueless. Can you detail more?

fuel filter bowl may be what other poster meant.

 

[TopSpeed1]

For sure your dealer should know of thermal protection if it is there, AND whether there is a "limp mode" like modern cars/trucks have. Yours does not quite act as extreme as "limp mode" (at least the kind I have had happen on my F-150. It doesn't slow down it goes dead and then can barely be moved after restarting.) I have not heard whether tractors have a 'safe mode' or 'limp mode.'

The data gathering with the laser pointed thermometer that I suggested may very well not show anything remarkable. Just wondering if some pattern might emerge in what has to be a rather wild circumstance.

Have you ever had way to try your machine in real heavy, deep grass or with some other tougher load like a bush hog in heavy brush/deep weeds? I'm wondering if that would bring on the disease quickly OR just confirm the "40 minute rule.?"

Agree it's not like any Limp Mode I've experienced on other vehicles. So I drought that honestly, and why I never embarked on this in earlier posts.

It will mow through 1 ft tall grass like no other, no slow ups, no RPM drops well until maybe 30 mins or so then. So loading the workload up more will force this power loss to appear sooner yes, and if you look back you will see me telling that putting on the A/C brings up the power loss a bit sooner.

 

[TopSpeed1]

fuel filter bowl may be what other poster meant.

If that's the case, I did change both fuel filters now twice, thinking originally this was the issue.

Not sure how you could ever tell if there an air pocket in there or not, it's just not a visible aspect I could pursue in any workable to visual inspection.