Mapp gas

[milt27]

Have a large galvanized animal watering trough that has a couple of leaks along the seam on the bottom. Was wondering if I could repair using Mapp gas to silver solder or braze. Any suggestions?

Milt

 

[sweettractors]

Probably, but wear a respirator. Those fumes from galvanized are toxic. Ken Sweet

 

[ray66v]

You will have to clean all the galvanizing off the area, to weld, solder, or braze it.

Of those, my preference would be to braze it.

There are some really good new sealers.

I fixed a cracked toilet tank with this product:

Geocel Corporation - Manufacturer of Quality Sealants, Caulks, and Adhesives Designed for Tough Construction and Repair Applications.

It worked so well, years later, when I busted the tank with a sledge, it still held were the crack was.

 

[Willl]

Is the seam starting to rot out ?, if so, flame/high heat will just make more of it disappear.

If it is rot/rust, maybe a sealer ?, or liner ?

 

[yomax4]

Tough Gig trying to Braze with anything but acetylene. There are some lower temp solders out there like JW Harris Gal-Vis. Its a heat to 400 degrees rub on galvanising rod. It goes on fairly thick and can be used for what you are doing but JB Weld sounds like ticket on this application.

 

[Soundguy]

You will have to clean all the galvanizing off the area, to weld, solder, or braze it. .

sorry.. that's pure proccessed male cow food.

I ROUTINELY solder galzinized animal troughs using a regular plumbers propane torch, silver solder and paste flux.. all from those lil 15$ walmart kits.

find the hole, lightly sand around it with some fine emory paper to clean any grime from it. Use a tin tab ( roofing ). flux up the tab with it laying on the ground.. heat it.. tin it with the silver solder. do the same with the area around the hole. flux is your friend.. the more the better.. tin that area up. the silver solder EASILLY wets to galvanized metal.. in fact I find it way easier to tin galvanized metal than plain steel or cast iron.

once both parts are tinned, use needle nose to hold the tab up and work it like sweating a pipe...

3x easier than brazing..

propane torch ain't atomizing the zin like a welder is.. plus zinc would be a contaminate in a weld..

strips of galvanized roofing tin work as good patches to get around those seams.

I always have horses or cows kicking or goring a tank.. have hit a couple with the batwing too



soundguy

 

[ray66v]

sorry.. that's pure proccessed male cow food.

I ROUTINELY solder galzinized animal troughs using a regular plumbers propane torch, silver solder and paste flux.. all from those lil 15$ walmart kits.

find the hole, lightly sand around it with some fine emory paper to clean any grime from it. Use a tin tab ( roofing ). flux up the tab with it laying on the ground.. heat it.. tin it with the silver solder. do the same with the area around the hole. flux is your friend.. the more the better.. tin that area up. the silver solder EASILLY wets to galvanized metal.. in fact I find it way easier to tin galvanized metal than plain steel or cast iron.

once both parts are tinned, use needle nose to hold the tab up and work it like sweating a pipe...

3x easier than brazing..

propane torch ain't atomizing the zin like a welder is.. plus zinc would be a contaminate in a weld..

strips of galvanized roofing tin work as good patches to get around those seams.

I always have horses or cows kicking or goring a tank.. have hit a couple with the batwing too



soundguy

:laughing: Your sorry?

I swear, I could post that the sky is blue on here, and someone will disagree.

Because you have been able to avoid removing it, does not mean it will work in all cases.

Obviously, the flux your using is able to etch your galvanizing enough to get adhesion.

Many times when you solder galvanized, you often have to use very strong acids, to get enough etching.

Since I have the proper tools, it's easier to remove it.

Tell you what, you do it your way, & I'll do it mine. :thumbsup:

 

[Soundguy]

water based paste flux like most plumbers use does the trick just fine.. common.. easy to get.. and works. I've yet to have a cold solder or a joint fail on a solder to galvanized metal patch.. including galvanized roof tin. Have had plenty of luck even on aluminum.. though that one is tricky..went to a different alloy type of solder on that..

I merely posted that because you stated:

[quote[You will have to clean all the galvanizing off the area, to weld, solder, or braze it[/quote]
the way the statement was made lead one to believe there would be no 'possibility' of doing it any other way.

For the record.. I WOULD clean all of it off to braze it.. and for sure double clean it before wedling it.. solder though? naaa.. extra uneeded work...

soundguy

 

[ray66v]

water based paste flux like most plumbers use does the trick just fine.. common.. easy to get.. and works. I've yet to have a cold solder or a joint fail on a solder to galvanized metal patch.. including galvanized roof tin. Have had plenty of luck even on aluminum.. though that one is tricky..went to a different alloy type of solder on that..

undguy

If your concerned about extra work, it's interesting your making repairs to galvanized metal with solder, in the first place.

My point was directed to those who were concerned about the fumes generated using a torch on galvanized steel. And was that they are not an issue, if the galvanize is removed. Which in my opinion, is the proper way to do the job. Unless you like trial and error.

Here's a disclaimer for you:

REMOVING THE GALVANIZE IS JUST ONE WAY TO REPAIR THIS, THERE ARE SHORT CUTS AROUND DOING SO, THAT MAY WORK.

This is not needed to keep anyone from getting confused, (no one ever listen's to me anyway), just an attempt to eliminate debate.

I now know all those who use hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, sulfuric acid, muratic acid, etc, to eat the galvanize up, (read the thousands of hits you will get in a google search of this topic), are all wrong, (my self included), and it is all unnecessary, if we just use Wal Mart flux.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Soundguy]

If your concerned about extra work, it's interesting your making repairs to galvanized metal with solder, in the first place. .

since I'm not made of money and can't go out and buy a new set of water tanks every time a hole opens up.. then.. well.. that means I have to repair them. so far.. the BEST repair I have used has been solder.

I've tried rtv on the inside.. that lasts 1-2 seasons, then lifts.

I've tried epoxy.. that lasts 1 season exactly, till winter happens and the metal slightly deforms betwqeen the 30' swings between night and day, and the epoxy cracks or pops loose.

as of yet.. I've -never- had to re-repair a solder patch I've done..

here's my own disclaimer... I've been soldering for decades.. and I'm good at it..I solder alot.. and get lots of 'practice'.. results may vary based upon the solder's skills.. that's a given.

I've also not tried multiple types of epoxy's and sealants. I used a couple rtv types.. and a couple epoxy types.. liquid mix in set type and a putty type.. since I had poor results I decided to stop expirementing and do something I knew would work, and would be cheap ( cheapest epoxy set I know of is at least 5$ ).. vs a few inches of solder and a few swipes of a brush with some flux.. IE.. pennies or maybee nickles considering the amount of repairs I can get out of a tin of paste flux, a roll of solder and a tank of hot dog gas.

With a well and float valves on water tanks at a remote property I can't afford to be gone a week and come back to a swamp because some jb water weld putty failed when the tank got cold, then constantly leaked and ran my pump for a week .. wetting everything down and running my electric bill thru the roof. I have to fix em and trust the fix.

I'm sure there is some wonder flexible glue-goo out there I'm not aware of...

I now know all those who use hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, sulfuric acid, muratic acid, etc, to eat the galvanize up, (read the thousands of hits you will get in a google search of this topic), are all wrong, (my self included), and it is all unnecessary, if we just use Wal Mart flux.

Thanks for the help.

that little pout added nothing positive to this thread...

soundguy

 

[/pine]

FWIW...I have used regular (old) lead/tin plumbers solider to make skylight curb flashings with galvanized angle flashing...with just plumbers flux and propane torch...works great...

I have also fabricated chimney caps with galvanized eaves drip and galvanized sheet metal using plumbers solider...

excess flux should be removed...

 

[Soundguy]

back in the day when radiator tanks were actually metal and you could fix them.. vs the composite ones.. my favorite patch for a pinhole was a penny.. flux it and solder.. I would usually grind one side down flat to make it fit better.. even worked when they went to the hi zinc content pennies. never had a lick of trouble wetting zinc.

soundguy

 

[Mike476]

Surprised to hear that regular solder would work, good to know. Back in the day when there was a living in it a good friend operated a rad repair shop, was amazed what he did with propane / compressed air and a 50 pound spool of silver solder. Would watch him pop the tanks off the old rad, clean them up, install them on a new core and pressure test it in under 5 minutes, was something to watch.

I too questioned the strength of silver solder, given the stresses a rad endures installed in a vehicle. He silver soldered two pieces of brass together and offered me the opportunity to pull them apart, with a hammer and a chisel. Needless to say I became a believer pretty quick.:laughing:

 

[Skyco]

Yep- 35 years ago I was on a maintenance crew at a college. We routinely soldered end caps and downspouts on galvanized gutters. Old school technique..we had big 5 lb copper slug soldering irons that were heated on a burner then applied to the gutter with regular old paste plumbers flux and a big ole bar of solder. In fact you didn't want the galvanizing off...plain steel is a lot harder to solder:thumbsup:

 

[Soundguy]

I too questioned the strength of silver solder, given the stresses a rad endures installed in a vehicle. He silver soldered two pieces of brass together and offered me the opportunity to pull them apart, with a hammer and a chisel. Needless to say I became a believer pretty quick.:laughing:

ever see a double bbl shotgun? see the bottom and top ridge covers.. now look at the bbl end.. the grey metal between the bbl's and ridge covers is silver solder

the oil pump pickup tube on an old fors is silver soldered into the pump whish is on the crank bearing cap...

solder is good stuff for those that know how to work with it and given you have an appropriate application.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Yep- 35 years ago I was on a maintenance crew at a college. We routinely soldered end caps and downspouts on galvanized gutters. Old school technique..we had big 5 lb copper slug soldering irons that were heated on a burner then applied to the gutter with regular old paste plumbers flux and a big ole bar of solder. In fact you didn't want the galvanizing off...plain steel is a lot harder to solder:thumbsup:

ditto that too... also.. when soldering.. I'd prefer to solder cast iron vs steel.. easier to wet. perhaps the specific allow adds? ( copper, nickle.. etc.. ) ??

soundguy

 

[chuckgreen]

My point was directed to those who were concerned about the fumes generated using a torch on galvanized steel.

I now know all those who use hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, sulfuric acid, muratic acid, etc, to eat the galvanize up, (read the thousands of hits you will get in a google search of this topic), are all wrong, (my self included), and it is all unnecessary, if we just use Wal Mart flux.

I've welded on galvanized steel with never any problems from the fumes. I'm either outside or if I'm inside, I've got the shop exhaust fan going and I position myself to stay out of the smoke. The big problem welding galvanized steel is getting zinc into the weld, zinc will weaken the weld, make it porous, etc. Using any powerful acids on steel will introduce more cleaning issues, because rusting will be accelerated on steel that's had contact with acid.

 

[cowski]

soundguy i might try that soldering with map gas on a tank .i usually would just braze it.mapp would be a lot more portable.i think brazing would be stronger,but since i have never soldered on a stock tank what do you think?

 

[crash325]

Depending on how much strength you need. Brass Brazing rod works real well on Zinc. If all you need is a seal lead solder works well.

I have stick welded it using 6011 by using a stop & start method. Weld about 1" , stop give it a little time to cool and go again.

Should you get too much fumes in your lungs, drink a lot of milk and it will flush your system.