Mandatory Vacation Payout question...

/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #21  
One question not known is if the income from vacation not taken counts as "income" that is subject to the 401K contribution rules or it is some sort of miscellaneous income that is not subject as 401K income. That would be the only reason I could think why a company would not allow the 401K contribution against that income. That's what accountants figure out.

I retired in 2007 and was paid for my unused vacation time. I contributed the additional income into my 403(b) plan without any problems. I am not aware of any changes to the IRS regulations and I do not see why the rules should differ between 401k and 403(b) plans.

Steve
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question...
  • Thread Starter
#22  
In about 8 weeks it will be 2014... never thought I would make it.

Seems time really does fly when you are older.

I'm going to wait for the company letter and then go from there.

Stopped contributions into the 401k back in 2005 when the company match was eliminated...

Always could look into an IRA...

As always... appreciate the TBN brain trust's advice.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #23  
Stopped contributions into the 401k back in 2005 when the company match was eliminated...Always could look into an IRA...
I don't want to come across as preachy, but your retirement will be here before you know it. Regardless of whether your company has a defined-benefit retirement plan, you won't regret putting aside money now in your 401K, regular IRA and/or a Roth IRA.

Steve
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #24  
Roth IRA for those in the less than 50 percent tax bracket. There is more money to be made with that sharp pencil. Your best interest and the companies may not be the same.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question...
  • Thread Starter
#25  
I welcome preaching/advice realizing there is much I don't know.

From 1982 to 1992 I put all of my money and effort into income property...

I figured early on that I needed to develop an independant financial plan and took the plunge buying my first home at age 22, the year I earned my engineering degree... also a time of record unemployment. Though property values fluctuated... rents have remained constant and I've done well by holding it.

In retrospect, I should have kept with my original plan... because those first 10 years investing gave me a solid footing.

Becoming an employee was also great for the first 10 years... the last ten years not so much.

Back in the 90's... the benefits of working in a Hospital environment were pretty amazing... just about everything I signed on for no longer exists... family medical, stock plan, 401k match, profit sharing, 5-year sabaticals, tuition expenses, incentive programs, etc...

The cashing out vacation pay and losing sick leave is just the latest in a series of changes...

I mentioned to the Boss today... yes, we were both working on Sunday, the suggestions I picked up from TBN and her reply was she is just trying to keep the doors open and if a good offer comes along, I should take it because it is anyone's guess how much longer this business model will survive with all the changes hitting health care.

Small independant hospitals are going the way of the dino... all that will be left are the big players when the affordable health care act is fully implemented.
 
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/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #26  
Must be time for Joint Commission. Since they now show up without warning maybe they will show up before you need off.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #28  
I welcome preaching/advice realizing there is much I don't know.

From 1982 to 1992 I put all of my money and effort into income property...

I figured early on that I needed to develop an independant financial plan and took the plunge buying my first home at age 22, the year I earned my engineering degree... also a time of record unemployment. Though property values fluctuated... rents have remained constant and I've done well by holding it.

In retrospect, I should have kept with my original plan... because those first 10 years investing gave me a solid footing.

Becoming an employee was also great for the first 10 years... the last ten years not so much.

Back in the 90's... the benefits of working in a Hospital environment were pretty amazing... just about everything I signed on for no longer exists... family medical, stock plan, 401k match, profit sharing, 5-year sabaticals, tuition expenses, incentive programs, etc...

The cashing out vacation pay and losing sick leave is just the latest in a series of changes...

I mentioned to the Boss today... yes, we were both working on Sunday, the suggestions I picked up from TBN and her reply was she is just trying to keep the doors open and if a good offer comes along, I should take it because it is anyone's guess how much longer this business model will survive with all the changes hitting health care.

Small independant hospitals are going the way of the dino... all that will be left are the big players when the affordable health care act is fully implemented.

Without question... my original instincts regarding Real Estate and working for myself would have proven much more lucrative...

I know it's not any help, but that is pretty much the way manufacturing has gone. Back in the mid 70's, I was making $8 per hour, as a helper in a non union tool and die shop. 35+ years later, workers are making 8 or 9 per hour? When I started out, my journeymen were making enough to afford second homes, cool cars, and a couple owned airplanes. The new guys can't afford to pay attention. :(
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question...
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Must be time for Joint Commission. Since they now show up without warning maybe they will show up before you need off.

Bingo... all we know is we are due.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question...
  • Thread Starter
#30  
I know it's not any help, but that is pretty much the way manufacturing has gone. Back in the mid 70's, I was making $8 per hour, as a helper in a non union tool and die shop. 35+ years later, workers are making 8 or 9 per hour? When I started out, my journeymen were making enough to afford second homes, cool cars, and a couple owned airplanes. The new guys can't afford to pay attention. :(

I did work almost 2 years in a Union Shop making components for the Space Shuttle and was on the shop floor the day the shuttle exploded... I was earning $12 and hour which was very respectable plus benefits... at that time it was 7 years to become vested... after the shuttle went down, that project faded and I started renovating residential property...
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #31  

Response to Post #17. Healthcare facilities are accredited by the Joint Commission, formerly the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO). Has to be renewed every 3 years by unannounced onsite 3-4 day inspection. Most facilities are inspected in the last few months before accreditation runs out so normal policy is managers and essential personnel cannot take off during that time until after the inspection is complete.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #32  
As far as small hospital's go, they seem to be dissappearing around here, but the population has declined here. We have 4 big groups, Beaumont, St Joes, DOMC, and UM. All run large hospitals, a few smaller hospitals, clinics. Ann Arbor has some specialized hospitals, but I think they are mostly part of larger ones. And the VA. Our local hospital lost it's birthing unit, which means that all births are going out of county. There isn't a full service hospital in the county anymore. The nearest birthing unit is about 50 miles away.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #33  
Best advice any working person will ever get. Pay yourself first and don't assume what is currently occurring with public benefits will continue happening into the future at the same rate. Benefits have been cyclical over the decades and a person in the future (that's us) could wind up depending on whatever they have saved for that rainy day. The advantage of all the 401's, etc and IRA's are they are tax advantaged and basically pay you to save for yourself, which is something we should be doing anyway.

Bottom line is pay yourself first.


I don't want to come across as preachy, but your retirement will be here before you know it. Regardless of whether your company has a defined-benefit retirement plan, you won't regret putting aside money now in your 401K, regular IRA and/or a Roth IRA.

Steve
 
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/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #34  
This was a common thing to do in the 90's. At least for two companies that I worked for. No yearly carry-over for Vacation, personal time and sicktime was capped at a set amount. No Vacation could be taken from September 1st to end of February. The transition from full time associates to temps and part time began about the same time.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #35  
To the OP!

I have felt your pain. I was working in an urgent care owned bya local community hospital that was originally one of 6 hospitals in the county. One closed, and the others were consolidated into 3 major health systems, of which 2 are now merging.

The third and biggest with 2 operating hospitals, including the regional trauma and burn centers, was initially brought in to consult with our little health system because of financial mismanagement and poor billing and documenting practices inside the hospital (as opposed to the two profit-making cost centers consisting of the nursing home and the 2 urgent care centers).

They ended up closing my satellite urgent care (which was profitable), because it wasn't profitable "enough", which was operating in the next county south (and within 15 minutes of home for me). The reason it wasn't as profitable as they had felt necessary was because it was one of two opened within 3 months of each other in the same small town, and opened second, so was less busy than they wanted it to be.

Thing is, the management had to apply in advance to the state for a certificate of need to certify that the area needed the medical services, and as a result, they knew that the other urgent care was going to open there first.

Luckily, the local hospital system that had the other urgent care had lost a PA, so I was able to start there within a few weeks of losing my urgent care job.

Within 9 months of my urgent care having closed, the health system that had shut me out by closing my health center was bought out and closed lock, stock, and barrel by the big system. Further, because the office where I had worked was now unoccupied, and had been built specifically for an urgent care center, we moved from the office we were at, and I'm back to my old digs.

Sometimes, things work out for the better.

Re: 403(b)'s and 401-k's, they are pretty much equivalent and the rules are very similar, but the biggest rule is put in as much as you can afford or as much as is allowed, regardless of the matching funds, but always put in at least as much as they will match.

For example, I still don't qualify for a match because the waiting period for my employer is 2 years.

Nonetheless, I am putting every cent I can spare into my 403(b).

Technically, I'm not contributing at all right now, because I am disabled and out of work, but as soon as I get back, I will be socking away whatever we can afford to, with the knowlege that not only is it the best chance I have of independently funding my "golden years", but every buck I put away gets subtracted from my gross pay, thereby lowering my current tax burden. Plus, depending on the plan, many allow borrowing against at least part of your account balance with most of the low interest charged being paid back into the account.

The loan option from my first 403(b) at my first PA job provided part of our down payment for our house, and because it was for the home purchase, we got 10 years to pay it back.

God bless and best of luck with whatever transition you end up having to deal with. Don't forget that the over-40's age group is a protected place (at least there are some protections in place) and retirement funding is a hot button issue for us. If they continie to try to limit your access to putting whatever money you are entitled to into your 401-K or whatever, the FBI and other feds can fix things pretty quickly.

Another previous employer was delaying payments to our retirement funds until it was convenient for their accounting system, and one pf my co-workers took offense and called the fibbies, who poste-haste came storming in and third-degreeing all the management with a final upshot of fines and some penalties being assessed, and PAID into the delinquent accounts. Not surprisingly, they were never late contributing again.
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question... #36  
I suggested the administrator let people know sooner as opposed to later...

I think a lot of people would go the 401k route if they have the option.

My CPA said I should ask to defer to my first Jan 2014 paycheck and that was denied.

Seems we have two types of employees... those that are always short of vacation time and those that accumulate it... mostly because there is seldom a good time to use it.

You have a CPA and no IRA/Roth IRA and are not contributing to a 401K? I'd look for better financial advice if I were you. I hope your situation works out. :thumbsup:
 
/ Mandatory Vacation Payout question...
  • Thread Starter
#37  
You have a CPA and no IRA/Roth IRA and are not contributing to a 401K? I'd look for better financial advice if I were you. I hope your situation works out. :thumbsup:

Yes... guilty on all counts.

Could be I'm turning into one of those old grumps... problem is I remember things... promises made and stuff like that when a company is courting you.

I had been contributing the max for the match up to the point it stopped even though the plans changed all the time and were very high cost for the 7 funds offered.

Always have had a CPA going back to 1980... the CPA firm has sold several times when owners left California for other States... I felt it was worth the expense because the few times a question came up... one letter from the CPA to the revenue service took care of it...

As a side note... seems to be a lot of 50 and 60 year olds I know are pulling up stakes and leaving after a lifetime of working and making their money in California.

A couple of months back I had my annual review which is always excellent... at the end, the boss asks if we have any questions and I did ask what the future holds going forward for the business and it was a candid conversation.

I brought up all the changes I've seen and how we are really working for a paycheck since 90% of the benefits no longer exist and she agreed.

Fortunately, it would not be the end of the world for me should business close and I'm thankful for that.

The next couple of months should prove interesting... not sure how much I will be tied to the Hospital once PTO is paid out and accrued sick time disappears...
 
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