Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates?

   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #11  
Part of the plan to force solar on us. The larger (not portable) solar generators can be programmed for 'time of day rates' Can power home for the 3pm to 7 pm rates and recharge from the grid when rates are lower. Solar panels not needed but, can lower power bill even more. Solar panel size and location, even feasibility needs to be considered. Best solar power collection is between 10am & 2pm. Can you collect enough in 4 hrs to run 24 hrs? How many extra panels for cloudy days? Gas generator to recharge batteries on rainy days.

Been watching doom & gloom, prepper videos on Bitchute and youtube. Have smaller system to run pellet stove in the winter, window A/C in summer.
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #12  
Our utility notified us that due to EVs they are instituting "Time of Day" rates making the hours of 3pm to 7 pm more expensive for everyone. During the four months of summer the rates go up 35% for that time period. The other eight months of the year it is around 8% more expensive.

What do you guys that already have this billing do to reduce your usage during those times?
We have had them for a long time. It isn't much of an issue for us. We do electrical power intensive activities like running the clothes dryer off peak in the mornings. It spreads laundry out over a few days, but the septic is probably happier for it as well.

The car is programmed for the TOU rates, so we plug it in, and it will charge only on the off peak times unless specifically instructed, which is never.
SE Michigan. There are the basic things, like programming the AC to stay off during those hours. I'm curious about how far most people go to cut usage and what methods there are for turning off dumb devices.
We have solar, and as the hours for TOU peak rates shifted, due in part to more solar being installed and damping some of the TOU demand load, the amount of solar in the "peak" window has dropped. We added batteries a couple of years ago, so we use no peak power year round, and are basically 100% self powered for eight months of the year.

Some folks near us have the ability to charge during off peak and export during peak. We don't at the moment due to the tax implications. Whether it is worth the wear and tear on their battery systems is a TBD. My personal bet is not, as the usage is full throttle in and full throttle out, which aren't kind to batteries.

We go ahead and use the AC (rarely), when needed, as AC use is a tiny fraction of our annual power load. It isn't worth it to us to precool the house, etc. as we are usually running it due to air quality more than temperature. I could add a timer to reprogram the well pump to be off peak only, but it is already 90+% off peak anyway, so the marginal benefit is small. (Laundry in the mornings, irrigation in the early, early mornings, etc.)

TOU affects different people differently. For acquaintances that live in suburbia in central California, where the afternoon temperatures can be well over 100F, in relatively poorly insulated homes, they have very little ability to time shift their electrical usage, and they get hit hard. $500/mo electrical bills are not uncommon. That makes the ROI on solar and batteries very short.

Our local power company has gone as far as running an ad campaign asking customers to routinely have sandwiches for dinner and to turn off TVs and computers in the evening to save energy. To say that they were widely ridiculed is an understatement.

I think a lot of it comes down to a) can you time shift energy intensive activities easily, b) do you have solar, c) what happens to excess solar power (some folks get zero credit for exports to the grid), and d) how much solar do you have (and can you have) relative to the amount you use. Here, we are limited to solar power production no more than 110% of existing use. Adding electric heat pumps or EVs significantly increases the load. My $0.02 is that if you are considering solar, you should go big, even if you think that you won't have an EV. Solar systems have a 20+ year lifespan. I think that batteries are a more complicated question as there seems to be an emerging trend of more EVs supporting vehicle to home power or vehicle to grid power from the vehicle batteries, and that could (will?) dramatically shift the effective cost and relative advantages of home batteries compared to an EV that does home backup.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #13  
I don't have any direct experience, but do know a few things people do broadly from less intrusive to more intrusive:

1. Don't charge your EV during peak times

2. If you have an electric water heater, put it on a 240v timer so it doesn't run during peak times. As long as you don't have any long showers it'll hold out for a few hours of hand washing just fine

3. Use the dishwasher timer to run overnight

4. If using AC, turn the thermostat down a few degrees starting a few hours before peak times. During peak times turn the thermostat up some to coast

5. If heating with resistive electric heat, do the reverse of AC above. Also maybe install an [electric thermal storage heater](https://www.steffes.com/ets/room-unit/)

6. If you aren't using resistive electric heating, don't cook with your oven. If you are using resistive electric heating, prefer cooking with your oven to double-dip on the electricity

7. Try a pressure cooker and/or Instapot

8. Hang dry your clothes instead of using a dryer

9. Learn to like slow cooked food in either a slow cooker or a [haybox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haybox)
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #14  
Ours, NS Power, only allows time of day rates if you have electric thermal storage for heat and controls approved by NSP. Not only that but the monthly charge is $18.82 per month if you're on time of day, conventional is $10.83 per month.
The per kilowatt is $16.215 per KWH on a conventional system.
The time of day rate has 4 tiers, screenshot so I don't have to type it.
I'm sticking with conventional thank you very much.
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   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates?
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Thanks for the replies! I'm surprised there wasn't more about wifi controlled outlets etc, which I'd prefer not to use.

Another concern is if there is any detrimental effect from powering off and on the many electronic devices that constantly draw power, like does that shorten their lifespan?

Solar is out. The solar companies around here are in the news for increasing people's monthly costs after promising a huge reduction. Plus we're not sure if we'll be moving within the next 10 years. After a brief look, I've decided there is too much to learn to go it alone and make wise choices for all the various hardware needed for a solar system.

Battery backup is an idea if it can be done economically. A local guy repurposed a Volt battery for backup power, which is neat, but I hope he has it far away from his dwelling, lol.

No EV for me any time soon. My sons all have hybrids and for fun we looked up the 1.4kwh battery cost. Over $10K from Ford and it is a reman unit at that! Aftermarket, used and reman all cost about half that. No thanks.
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #16  
I'll echo what some others have said.....but at the end of the day, you cannot let it ruin your life. 3-7 is home family time to spend with the wife and kids, eat dinner, etc.

But, without knowing your electric rates vs natural gas or propane.....you could consider switching cooking to gas/propane if its cheaper.

But setting t-stat in anticipation of the higher rates....Like if you want it to be 70 in the winter....maybe set it for 73-74 at 2:00.....then leave it off from 3-7 and hope it dont drop too much. Down to 67-68 would be tolerable.....and if it can holdout til 7 then let it catch back up.

No major hot water usage. And to "control" it, flip the breaker (or even timer) on the water heater during those hours. Wait til after 7 to shower.....or shower in the morning. Same for dishes and laundry.

But when it comes to general living, computer and TV usage, lights, , etc....I wouldnt let it dictate my lifestyle too much.

But this is the cost of the gov't wanting to force people to be "green" and forcing unsustainable residential solar on people.

Solar only makes electric during the day. Most families use the most electric in the evenings and at night when solar is doing little for them. Because we burn lights, cook, shower, watch TV' etc when its night time. And typically colder so more HVAC demand at night.

So residential solar that relies on the grid as a batter is not sustainable. If everyone had solar grid-tie....we would have a surplus of electric we cannot store during the day.....and the grid still needing to run peak demand at night. And by giving such generous net-metering policies to those with solar......its causing electric companies to scramble to meet their bottom line and you have situations just like this.

Around me there are 2 electric companies. AEP and rural coop. AEP does 100% offsetting net metering. Meaning people with solar are able to use the grid as a battery basically free of charge. Great for them......but not for long term sustainability.

The local coop has a more realistic approach (which sadly makes solar not worth investing in at the moment). Rural coop's make no power. They buy power from the big players and use their own (coop's) distribution network. Therefore the bill is basically 3 parts. 1. A flat rate meter charge. This is simply the cost of being hooked to the grid, having a meter, etc. 2. Their distribution charge for their lines and poles for delivering electric from substations, to our homes. 3. The generation and transmission charge. This is what they BUY electric from at wholesale. All things factored.....my total bill is ~$0.15/kwh. However......they are BUYING electric from their wholesale suppliers at ~$0.07/kwh.

If I, or my neighbor installed solar......how is it fair to everyone else to buy power from me at more than $0.07/kwh??? Which is exactly what companies are doing that are 100% offset metering. And its screwing everyone else making their rates go up FASTER than they would otherwise.

So this little trick of changing rates during peak times is no surprise to me at all
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #17  
Managing loads by turning breakers off, then on as needed. Or not running dishwasher, laundry or other appliances that also require cycling of electric hot water heater during TOU (peak times). Adding additional hot water heater, so the thermal storage gets you through the TOU period when rates are higher.
These are things I've seen that work for keeping the power bill down when rates are higher.
I am off grid, but my children live in some high rate utility areas and I have installed solar with battery backup for time of use scenarios for them also. Including the extra hot water heater I mentioned above.
I use a 4000 watt low frequency inverter, so they can start unbalanced loads or motor loads.
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #18  
Southeast Mi mean you are with DTE ? I have a radio controlled meter that DTE can turn off the A/C when demand gets too high. Since this has a separate panel in the basement, I've switched over some circuits to this panel. Dryer, hot tub, etc. This relieves my standby generator if ever needed, too, because it won't see this demand.
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #19  
Had an "off peak" rate in PA many years ago. Two meters, one would shut off During peak hours. Could put hot water heater on it,I put in a double pole double throw switch switch, added AC, pool pump and welder. Paid 1/2 rate and if needed could throw the switch over to keep everything on ( at twice the cost ).
 
   / Managing electric usage for the "Time of Day" rates? #20  
Thanks for the replies! I'm surprised there wasn't more about wifi controlled outlets etc, which I'd prefer not to use.
You aren't seeing much about wifi outlets and the like because outside heating (like furnaces, hot water, dishwashers, space heaters, clothes dryers, stoves, ovens) and cooling (like AC and ice makers) there just isn't much that both uses enough electricity to be worth the effort (NOT TVs, computers, stereos, LED lights) and can be effectively time shifted (NOT welders, compressors, fridges, freezers, blower motors, pumps).
 
 
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