Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up.

   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up. #11  
May want to look into who made the transmission. Maybe the gasket would be available from the hydro OEM. The two main possible companies would be tuff-torq and samstrung/hydrogear. So if the hydro has a part number or model number tag on it I would try that route.
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up.
  • Thread Starter
#12  
May want to look into who made the transmission. Maybe the gasket would be available from the hydro OEM. The two main possible companies would be tuff-torq and samstrung/hydrogear. So if the hydro has a part number or model number tag on it I would try that route.
No luck on the tag search for a cross reference. Thank you for the suggestion.
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up.
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Yes the #3 product would be fine. Without physically looking at that unit I suspect changing thickness a couple thousands of an inch would not matter a 0.03 thick gasket would affect the pre-load on the rotating group(s) and may cause excessive leakage.
I found 1/64" gasket material which is a 0.006" difference. If you figure the original compressed a bit over 60 years that puts me close enough. I am picking it up today. Apply a little permatex Form-A-Gasket No. 3 and I should be good to go. Crossing my fingers. Thanks for the advise, I will post up the results in a month or so after it has had the test of time.
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up. #14  
Again, my vote is for 3 Bond versus anything else. In fact, that is all I use anymore.
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up.
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Again, my vote is for 3 Bond versus anything else. In fact, that is all I use anymore.

Again, my vote is for 3 Bond versus anything else. In fact, that is all I use anymore.
They have a ton of different gasket maker / sealer products. Specifically which one are you in love with?
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up. #16  
As long as you’re collecting opinions:

I use the Three Bond formulation for aluminum cases whenever sealing up crankcase/transmission/axle sections that don’t use a gasket. They make several different grades/products so some product research is advisable. Some claim that Three Bond is the supplier for OE like Yama/Honda bond. Other caveat is they change formulations often to meet the latest and greatest emission stds.

Generally use Hylomar Blue (high VOC) for items that do have a gasket. Carb float bowls, transmission pans, untreated (non rubber/coated) valve cover gaskets, etc. Doesn’t harden like RTV, keeps gasket located during assembly, doesn’t destroy the gasket if re-assembly is needed (cleaning carb jets), and is highly gas/oil/petro chemical resistant.

Hylomar was developed by Rolls Royce to seal up sections of turbo jet/fan engines when they discovered nothing else stopped highly viscous synthetic oils from leaking. Started using it back in the 80s when Permatex had marketing rights . Someone else bought the rights back around 2005 and the price increased three or four fold. Tube goes a long way, doesn’t dry out.

Have no vested interest in either product, lots of ways to skin this cat.



Good luck
gasket.JPG
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up. #17  
I am sure it would be fine, but I have also heard horror stories about RTV on pumps / motors / hydrostats which is why I thought I would focus on using the Aviation form-a-gasket No.3. When you said stick with form-a-gasket, I assume you meant the Aviation form-a-gasket No.3 like I mentioned in my original post.

In my search for the part, I did come across a guy that focuses just on the the older cubs and he said that thickness does matter. I also suspect the group is right about finding the appropriate material that is made to handle the oil so I will go on a search tomorrow for the correct gasket material and thickness. Better safe than sorry, sometimes I just need somone to keep me on the right path.

Thanks everyone, feel free to keep adding comments. My mind is like a sponge, I am happy to keep absorbing whatever wisdom you want to bestow on me.
Here are my thoughts. Your mileage and decisions may vary, but I think my experience has some value for what you are doing.

I've made a lot of gaskets. My dad made gaskets and taught me. It can be very tedious - especially the holes .... for holes, I use several hollow punches or ball bearings on a hardened steel plate with various holes with sharp edges. i've made a whole lot more scrap than I've made good gaskets. The thin material is especially difficult.

I think that the thickness does matter - in some cases, the gasket thickness is included in the shims that determine the bearing preload. Of course that means the gasket thickness is only important if the preload is important. In old style manual transmissions with ball bearings the preload is not all that important. In front axle assemblies or even rear axles that that have tapered roller bearings it is.

In pumps for hydraulics, and for the hydrostatics transmissions the gasket thickness not only matters but is critical. Their gaskets are often thin metal sheet that are stacked in layers to make a specified thickness. Soft metal is used without a sealant. There the gasket thickness affects the clearance of the pump rotors and directly impacts the output pressure.

Gasket paper is oil resistant. Check to see if your file paper is. Otherwise I would order the thin gasket paper.

As for RTV, I like your idea - especially when you emphasize "very thin". I have used high temperature RTV for gaskets for 50 years now. I've never used the product that 5030 recommends, but he seems at master craftsman. Most people with his level of machine shop knowledge are. So it is worth looking into.

I use a different product now. It is based on my work on instrumentation. Dow 3145 - can be ordered online. Shorty's Pilot shop is where I got mine. A 3oz tube will damage a fifty dollar bill. Treat it right and that will last for years. Lots of uses.
. It is expensive and superior to anything you can buy automotive-wise. FWIW, There are two RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) curing chemistries. Both use water from the atmosphere to initiate curing. One - the common commercial type - outgasses acetic acid as it cures. Smells like strong citrus.
The other - the Dow 3145- does not have an odor or acid interaction. It is also safe on skin.
The complete description is DowSil 3145 Mil-A-46146 Adhesive/Sealant. It is an RTV using the second type of curing which is a moisture-activated platinum cataylst. The cured 3145 is good for high temperatures, flows, may be smoothed with a moistened finger, is more adhesive, and stays flexible for years. You can let it cure more completely or even completley before mounting the gasket IF IT IS ONLY A THIN LAYER. It retains enough flexability to be mounted when cured.

The trick with RTV is you never want to assemble it wet. The perfect assembly would be to wipe the gasket on both sides with a layer of RTV no thicker than a coat of paint. All you want it for is a little strength and a little ability to fill a microscopic defect in the casting. Then let it cure until it it no longer able to moved or sticky to the touch. For 3145, smooth with a moistened finger. With 3145 You can do one side of the gasket or case, let it cure, and then do the other. You want more than a surface cure. You don't want to compress it and have liquid RTV bead out the sides. This amount of takes half an hour to an hour - it is dependent on humidity.
Then I assemble and torque half way. I then give it another few hours and torque all the way. It won't hurt if the RTV is a little too cured, but can be a disaster if not cured enough or too thick.

Just some thoughts... hope they help.
rScotty
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up. #18  
I have made gaskets using a ball peen hammer working on
the outside first then the center
Just make sure that the liquid gasket material is really thin
no lumps

willy
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up.
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Update - Thanks for everyone's comments. I was able to find 1/64" paper gasket material and I was able to recreate a perfect replacement gasket using a retrace of the original, a new razor blade and cut/sharpened firearm casings and a hockey puck for punching out the holes. I cleaned all the surfaces perfectly, applied form-a gasket then attempted to assemble everything. Several internal components needed to be lined up before the two case end would come together.....but only after dumping all the internals on the bench, having to reassemble everything, and getting oil all over the surfaces I had diligently cleaned up. The struggle was real, lol, so I slapped it all together in an annoyed state of mind. I have a feeling I will be doing it again but the second time around I will have a better idea how it comes apart, I will know what to do and what not to do. Plus I will have everyone's product recommendations to guide me. I hope to have everything together by next weekend so I will test it out, let it sit for 30 days and report back the result.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and suggestions!
 
   / Making replacement hydrostatic transmission case gasket to stop oil leak (Cub Cadet 127).... I really don't want to screw this up. #20  
I am attempting to fix all the oil leaks on my Cub Cadet 127 tractor. I have most of them fixed with the exception of a leaking gasket on my hydrostatic transmission case. I thought I could order the part based on various web searches, however, after making several calls nobody seems to have it any more (Part# 394865-r1 or 3102875) so that means I have to make one. My first attempt success rate in fixing oil leaks hasn't been great so I thought I would post my plan and let members tell me if they think it will work or if they have a better idea.

The original gasket measures 0.0095 thick. Although I haven't scoured the earth looking, the thin gasket material isn't easy to find, however, I have heard of others using file folder material. It measures 0.010, which when compressed makes it perfect. So my plan is to use this file folder material with a very thin coat of permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket No.3 on both sides of the paper gasket. I am not using the file folder material to be cheap, I just think it should work.....but again I don't have any real world experience in this and I would love to hear the opinion of others that have more experience than me. This is a huge PITA to take apart so I want to do it right the first time.

Also, I am not replacing the round output shaft seals. I hope I don't regret this. They aren't leaking, and I don't want to open up a can of worms by going deeper than necessary. Again, if this is a bad idea feel free to let me know.

Everyone's help is very much appreciated, thank you!

Best regards,
Ryan
use a quality silicone like the grey, apply a very thin coat to both sides and bolt it together,let it sit over night to cure before adding the Fluid
 
 
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