Dargo said:
My point is simple, the statement that a CUT gear tractor will run circles around a similar sized hydro tractor is hogwash. I read this all the time and, plain and simple, it is totally untrue. Also, when you buy a hydro CUT, nowhere does it say that you may not use that tractor for ground engaging work. It will not void your warranty, it is not against the manufacturer's recommendation, and I'm not aware of any premier line of tractors with hydro transmissions that have suffered premature failures of their transmissions due to doing the same work a gear tractor can do. In the 80's, I too was a non-believer in that 'new' technology.
In extremely large ground engaging equipment you will find almost no traditional clutch and gear transmissions. According to a regional manager for Case, the main reason they don't use transmissions similar to what is used in bulldozers, for example, is cost. It is not that they will not hold up, but it is unlikely that farmers will opt for the more expensive drivetrain that will use more fuel. I've been in and around the strip mining industry for many years and, believe me, if some of the yahoos operating some of the largest equipment on earth cannot destroy the stuff, it's pretty tough. Some of the large haul trucks don't run a clutch and gear transmission for that reason; it is far easier for a poor operator to destroy a standard type of transmission.
But, the main point I wanted to make was simply that there is no truth in saying that a small CUT gear tractor is vastly superior to a similar size hydro tractor in it's ability to run ground engaging equipment. Besides, in some of the premium brand tractors, the line between the two type of transmissions is getting rather blurry; if you know what I mean.
What's "getting blurry" is your arguement. First, I CAN'T speak of larger FARM tractors and their lack of a conventional hydro transmission produced by any major equipment manufacturer because it NOT a 30 to 50 HP utility tractor, BUT, you are free to throw in comparisons to bulldozers, heavy earthmoving equipment, ect.
Plain and simple. 1st off, hydros weren't "new technology in the 80's". They've been around long before that. I'm not a "non-believer". (I owned my first hydro tractor in 1975) Hydros have their time and place. But, using them outside that place is compromising their purpose and stretching the limits of their capabilities. There isn't ANY hydro transmission equipped farm tractors OF ANY SIZE, FROM ANY BRAND that are recommended by their manufacturers as "tillage tractors". Simply because you don't see manufacturers telling you that you CAN'T, that doesn't imply that you SHOULD. Granted, you CAN, but do so for any prolonged usage, and expect a short and expensive life for that hydro. For the most part, what hydros are on the market are compacts and general purpose utilities. In the past 40 or so years, there hasn't been any efforts from any brand to market a smaller, lower hp farm tractor that is intended for use as a primary tillage tractor. That's fell into the same catagory as stagecoach drivers and steamboats. They're a thing of the past. In the end, a tractor is a tractor, is a tractor. The distinction between compact, utility, row crop, industrial, or orchard tractors can get a little unclear in many instances. People hang plows on the back of a compact tractor. That in no way makes that a purpose built tillage tractor. It's a compromise at best. Part of YOUR arguement, which I have AGREED with from the get-go, is that a hydro CAN pull a plow and do so with a certain level of operational performance not unlike a geared tractor. Yes they can ON A SHORT TERM BASIS. Where we apparently differ, judging by your reaction, is that I'm aware of the fact the #1 reason why the manufacturers don't suggest you do heavy tillage on a sustained basis with a hydro tranny equipped tractor OF ANY design, classification, or size is they just WON'T hold up over the long haul under usage of that nature.
As you mentioned, the transmissions in that heavy equipment AREN'T conventional clutch and gear trannies. They aren't conventional hydros as you would find them in a typical small tractor EITHER. And the typical transmission in a large earthmover would cost more than an entire 30 hp compact tractor in all likelyhood, not to mention probably weighing more than that complete tractor. What hydro technology that is available and sized accordingly for the small tractor market is not durable enough for constant, day in/day out heavy tillage work.
I've been around farm equipment my entire 61 years. I've farmed for almost 40 of those years. In that time, I've never seen one single attempt by any manufacturer to promote hydro transmission equipped tractors for the purpose of a primary tillage machine. They just simply aren't the best set-up for that sort of work on a sustained basis. Even during the glory years of International Harvester, when they had their HYDRO series of larger rowcrop tractors, they were targeting uses such as planting, cultivating, hay work, pulling spreaders, pto jobs, and in general, utility chores. Not once did they promote these true farm tractors as plowing machines. And even at that, the reason why the HYDRO series disappeared from the IH line-up? Transmission reliability issues that made them unpopular with farmers, and to this day, in the cases of the very few still in existance, holding their resale values MUCH lower than simular tractors with conventional gear transmissions.
