M7060 loader question

[houser52]

I've had my M7060 for a couple months and it only has 30 hours on it. The other day while using the FEL and bucket I noticed that the loader would not lift the tractor's front end off the ground. Example- With the bucket sitting flat on the ground and pushing the joystick to the right, the bucket will not dump. My smaller and older L3600 will raise the front end easily when in the dump mode. I've used it for 25 years without never had this issue with it.

The dealer picked it up a couple days ago to repair a hydraulic leak and I told them to check what I just described. Well, the dealer calls this morning and says that the leak has been repaired. He also checked the loader's dump function and everything was fine. He also said not being able to lift the front end was the way those tractors are made and that he compared other new ones on the lot, they also wouldn't lift the front end. The reason being that the dump cylinders are small and didn't have the capacity to do it.

I for one am a little skeptical of their diagnosis. Is it normal? Something I can personally look for?

I'd like to hear what you guys think.

 

[Tx Jim]

Do you have trans in neutral & no brakes applied when attempting to raise frt wheels with FEL?

 

[mddorange]

What it sounds like he is saying is that it doesn't have enough lift capacity to lift that much weight. It might be the case since that tractor weighs a little over 5,000 lbs. and the weight lift capacity is only around 2,900 lbs.

But I would think that it should be able to since my tractor weighs a little over 2,200 lbs and my FEL lifts only 1,100 lbs and my bucket will lift the front wheels off the ground just like your L3600 does.

 

[houser52]

Do you have trans in neutral & no brakes applied when attempting to raise frt wheels with FEL?

It won't raise it when sitting on level ground, no brakes and in neutral.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Where is the fast dump mode on that tractor? Most tractors have the fast dump mode all the way hard right. I know that some of the Kubotas have fast dump mode just to the right and std dump all the way hard right. Standard Ls and Mx series only have fast dump mode.

The loader typically will not lift the tractor as you describe when using fast dump mode.

Please report back as to the location of fast dump mode on your M7060. :thumbsup:

 

[Fallon]

Where is the fast dump mode on that tractor? Most tractors have the fast dump mode all the way hard right. I know that some of the Kubotas have fast dump mode just to the right and std dump all the way hard right. Standard Ls and Mx series only have fast dump mode.

The loader typically will not lift the tractor as you describe when using fast dump mode.

Please report back as to the location of fast dump mode on your M7060.

My thought as well. My L4060 wont lift the front dumping the bucket. It will just fine if I dump the bucket then lower the boom.

Technically I think I have a 4 stage valve on the bucket circuit. Going all the way over should go from a regen dump to a power dump. Which should lift the front end. But have never been motivated enough to remember to try. The economy Kubotas like my former L3200 only have a 3 stage valve with regen dump, no power dump.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

My thought as well. My L4060 wont lift the front dumping the bucket. It will just fine if I dump the bucket then lower the boom.

Technically I think I have a 4 stage valve on the bucket circuit. Going all the way over should go from a regen dump to a power dump. Which should lift the front end. But have never been motivated enough to remember to try. The economy Kubotas like my former L3200 only have a 3 stage valve with regen dump, no power dump.

This is exactly as I was thinking, you have a 4 position valve as do the M models. I just am not sure which is first, the regen dump (fast dump) or the power dump on the M models. My thinking is that he is going into regen-fast dump position and it will not lift the tractor in that position.

On my Mahindra loaders, the power dump is before the regen-fast dump which is hard right.

 

[majorwager]

MY MX is a little smaller than 7060, but it Effortlessly lifts the front of the tractor w/ the bucket curl cylinders at engine idle. My loader weighs about 1200 lbs and has a rated lift capacity of 2450 lbs.at the pins. I do NOT have a Kubota bucket. I use the 66 inch QA bucket from my IH model 2200 loader on my IH 484 utility tractor. I have an aftermarket Agrital cab on my MX, which weighs 900 lbs. doubt that makes a difference.

I believe ALL tractor loader control valves are proportional style. The meaning of which is simple, the further the lever is pushed, forward or rearward and left to right, the faster the hydraulic circuit will respond. Honestly, I have never heard of a quick dump position? Move the lever to any extreme simply allows the full flow of oil through the circuit. The obvious exception is the float position, if so equipped.

Unrelated, my little ford and IH 484 also easily lift the tractor right of the ground using the curl circuit.

 

[houser52]

Mine has the fast dump all the way to the right. It will dump either fast or slow just fine but will not raise the tractor up either way.

 

[Fallon]

On the kubotas, at least that I've seen that have a 4 stage valve, the first "notch" (no real notch, like float) is regen dump. The all the way over is power dump. It makes the most sense to me as regen dump makes sure it dumps fast & doesnt stuck in air (leading to a floppy bucket). That is where it will help the most with the least training.

 

[houser52]

I used the M7060 loader again this past weekend along with the grapple to move a bunch of sod, weeds and trash from a fence that I'm getting ready to replace. The 3rd function opening and closing of the grapple lid worked fine, raising and lowering of the loader was fine, curl and dumping of material was fine.

That brings me back to point of the dump circuit not having enough power to lift the front end of the tractor. I tried just just tilting the grapple several times to raise the front of the tractor when scooping a load of sod and it would not do it without putting down pressure on the boom.

I have a hydraulic gauge that I bought from Ken's Bolt On Hooks that I used several years ago when I plumbed in a diverter for my L3600 (which is still working great). I'm going to use it to check the pressure of the dump circuit and see if it's the same as the rest. According to what I can find about the LA1154 loader the max pressure is 2873psi. Hopefully the gauge will help me troubleshoot it.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

 

[oosik]

Well - I wonder. I have a M6040 that I bought new in 2009. With the grapple on the FEL - - I can easily lift the tractor by tilting the grapple. I can do the same with the bucket on the FEL - dump the bucket-raise the tractor. Always have been able to do this.

Has the FEL capabilities of the 6040 and 7060 been changed that much??? I have never taken a pressure measurement of the FEL hydraulic pressure.

 

[houser52]

Well - I wonder. I have a M6040 that I bought new in 2009. With the grapple on the FEL - - I can easily lift the tractor by tilting the grapple. I can do the same with the bucket on the FEL - dump the bucket-raise the tractor. Always have been able to do this.

Has the FEL capabilities of the 6040 and 7060 been changed that much??? I have never taken a pressure measurement of the FEL hydraulic pressure.

Thanks a lot for checking on that! I knew my 7060 loader just didn't perform like my much smaller 3600 and with your's easily lifting your tractor, well, something's not just right.

I hope to put the gauge on it either today or tomorrow if I have the right coupler on my gauge.

 

[oosik]

I'll be the first to acknowledge - I don't understand the intricacies of hydraulic systems very much. However - I have read posts here on TBN that indicate the hydraulic pressure can be increased/decreased. I would imagine that the opening/closing of a grapple could work fine without the pressure being at max. However - it is possible that the pressure may have to be at or near max to lift the entire front of a tractor. My M6040 is quite heavy - 10,100# - but a lot of the extra weight is the 1550# of Rim Guard in the rear tires and the Rhino 950 rear blade @ 1050# plus the 820# grapple on the FEL. I drove in to the ADM grain scales here in our small town one time.

 

[houser52]

I just finished checking the dump pressure twice and the curl pressure once with my gauge. All three times the pressure was what it is supposed to be, approx. 2900 psi.
For curiosity I swapped hose location, dump on the curl side and curl on the dump side. With that swapped the bucket would not curl at all, only dump.
Put everything back like it痴 supposed to be and now everything works like it should. It値l now pick up the tractor without a strain.
Don稚 know why. I had disconnected and reconnected the couplers a couple times right after I noticed the problem.
Maybe one of them had something stuck inside and it finally broke loose. Hopefully it値l stay fixed.

 

[oosik]

As I said - the intricacies are lost on me. Perhaps a little BM(black magic). Like you said - something stuck inside or imperfect connection or ???.

All that counts - you fixed it.......Good on you!!!!

 

[Rustyiron]

I think they have backed off the power by geometry or just small cylinders. I've noticed the same as you along with pretty weak "curling" of the bucket like you'd do when your stuck and trying to "bucket" yourself out backwards. The loader cyl's will lift the tractor if the bucker is pointed downward enough but not the curl cylinders. The loader (bucket) has an impressive swing or arc with that linkage compared to other loaders I've had with the dump cylinders attached directly to the bucket, but this weakness may be a result or a built in fail safe.:confused3:

 

[houser52]

Loader hydraulics update- Maybe my experience with help someone else in a similar situation.

Symptom #1- With the bucket sitting flat on the ground, brakes off and at any rpms, the loader would not lift the front of the tractor off the ground. It tried to and did a few times but not all the time. I thought I'd fixed it by unplugging and replugging the couplers but it started doing the same thing again. I had accepted the fact that that was the norm for that model and that was it.

Symptom #2- When opening and closing the grapple with the rpms past idle speed the 3rd function
valve would stay engaged until I bumped the loader's joystick one way or the other then it would disengage. At idle speed it opened, closed and disengaged normally.

All of these issues were explained to the dealer and they picked it up for repair. After bringing it back they said that everything checked out fine when comparing to other tractors on their lot.

I put it to work the next day and as far as I could tell everything was just as it was before, 3rd function valve not disengaging and no power on the dump cycle. I continued to use the tractor and grapple for a few weeks but it was driving me crazy. Something's not right.

I finally called WR Long last week and ask about the valve to see if there might actually be a problem with the valve. I spoke with Josh and he recommended several things to check. Those things all checked out okay. Today, as a last resort, Josh was going to send a replacement valve but wanted me to check one last thing, verify if it was plumbed correctly.

Well, I think Josh found the answer to both my problems. Looks like the "P" and "T" hydraulic lines were crossed! The "P" hose was on the "T" port and the "T" hose was on the "P" port. I swapped the hoses and what do you know, everything works as it should. The loader will now easily raise the front of the tractor and the grapple opens, closes and disengages as it should at any rpm. I ran it for awhile piling brush this evening without any hiccups. Hopefully that was all it was and that everything continues to operate normally.


I also wanted to say thanks to Josh and WR Long for all the help and guidance. Great company and people.

 

[Rustyiron]

Thank's for "closing the loop" on this. :thumbsup:

 

[Merca]

Do you happen to have pictures or a diagram of the ports and hoses you swapped?