I own a Jinma 220, I am going to service it for the first time. I was told by my dealer to use 15w-40 in the crankcase and 303 hyd oil in the hydralics and the trans. Also 15w-40 in the Injection pump. I also talked with a dealer/service man out of state and he said the samething. I know a guy that is a service man with Case-IC and he said to use 303 or 80w-90 in the trans, he also said he would not flush the systems for you can't remove it all out and you would have kerosene to mix. So what should be used. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Lubricants
- Thread starter DONMAC
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Well,that has always been my thoughts on flushing with kerosine or diesal fuel to,,,,I would think a little of the old oil,,would be better than a little,[or maybe more than a little],kerosine,,,,,use aw 32 in hydro,,its just plain old hydrolic oil,,,,,, use 15w40 desal motor oil,,I've been using that chevron delo oil,,,rotilla is another,,,,,,use the same in fuel pump,,,,,,,now as far as front end and trans,,,,,,,alot of opinions on that one,,,I have 40 weight non detergent in my trans and in front,,,just drained out a gal in trans and added a gal. of that lucas oil additive,,,think I'll drain out a qt. of front end and add a qt. of lucas to it soon,,,,many use gear oil in trans and in front end to no ill affects,,,up to you there,,,,,got about 400 hrs on mine now,,,,don't use any oil,,,fuel pump still works,,,ain't had any trouble with front end or trans....hydrolicics still work just fine,,,,,,while your at it check your anti freeze and make sure its good down to where it needs to be where you live,,,I got about a 60 -40 mix in mine,[something like that],,60% being antifreeze,,A 50 -50 mix would have been just fine though,,its good for 30 below...Think about that hydro screen,,in tank under seat,,they get holes in them, also,,,,thingy
greg_g
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So what should be used? )</font>
We've learned not to put much stock in the fluid recommendations in the Chinese owner's manuals. Whereas the manufacturers have performed physical modifications to satisfy American buyers, few mods have actually made it into the documentation. What we get through most dealers is a verbatim translation of the domestic manuals. Plus multi-viscosity lubricants (and antifreeze) are apparently not commonly used in China, which probably explains why they're missing from the books.
In case you want to follow my lead, here's what I use
Crankcase - Shell Rotella T 15W40
Front Diff - Shell Spirax HD 80W90 (non-foaming)
Tranny - Shell Spirax HD 80W90 (non-foaming)
Hydralics -Shell AW32 (non-foaming)
Injection Pump - Campbell-Hausfield compressor oil (ISO 100)
Cooling System - 50/50 low silicate/water (yours may have no anti-freeze)
I don't recommend 303 - or any UTF for that matter - in a Jinma. Unless the hydraulics will never be used in temps under 50F, 303 is too thick. For the straight cut gears in the tranny and diffs - it's too thin.
Assuming you're still running OE fluids, flushing is highly recommended (once you drain the original fluids, you'll clearly see why) and residual kerosene is not a problem. I strongly advise flushing the entire system; to include pumps/hoses/cylinders. Personal choice, but I prefer kerosene to diesel fuel. You simply drain the old crud, top up to the dipstick mark with kerosene, close up the system, start the tractor. Drive a few figure 8s to clean the steering, raise and lower the TPH and FEL respectively. Stop engine/drain, being careful to have a LARGE container. More comes out that you will have put in. Watch closely what comes out. I use a strainer to help determine if a 2nd flush is required, plus that way you can re-use the original kerosene. Richard made another good point about the suction filter. As a general rule, a kerosene flush will do the job without having to take off the seat - but to be extra sure, there's nothing better than the Mark1 eyeball.
Residual kerosene is volatile enough to evaporate over time, so I personally don't bother with this next step. Since the specific gravity of kerosene (~0.82) is different than AW32 (~0.86), there is a way to get more kerosene back out. This is another argument to use kerosene rather than diesel (SG ~0.84); it separates better. After your final fill let the TPH and any other hydraulic accessories down so that all hydraulic fluid gets forced back toward the reservior. Give the kerosene and AW32 time to separate, the kerosene will go to the bottom of the reservior.
But if you go the evaporation route - like me - just remember to top up the fluid levels periodically. Took only a few weeks, and awhat little residual kerosene I had - was history.
Flush the tranny/rear diff and front axle as well, drive the tractor over some rough ground. The extra agitation helps clean. Pay particular attention to achieving good flow between the transmission housing and the creeper housing (if so equipped). You'll need to flush till kerosene is freely out the creeper drain. When doing the front end, don't miss the little drains under each drive housing.
Don't forget the injection pump either. Mine had terrible looking milky something in it.
And I found horrible amounts of rust - and no antifreeze - in the cooling system. I flushed IT as well (but not with kerosene, obviously).
//greg//
We've learned not to put much stock in the fluid recommendations in the Chinese owner's manuals. Whereas the manufacturers have performed physical modifications to satisfy American buyers, few mods have actually made it into the documentation. What we get through most dealers is a verbatim translation of the domestic manuals. Plus multi-viscosity lubricants (and antifreeze) are apparently not commonly used in China, which probably explains why they're missing from the books.
In case you want to follow my lead, here's what I use
Crankcase - Shell Rotella T 15W40
Front Diff - Shell Spirax HD 80W90 (non-foaming)
Tranny - Shell Spirax HD 80W90 (non-foaming)
Hydralics -Shell AW32 (non-foaming)
Injection Pump - Campbell-Hausfield compressor oil (ISO 100)
Cooling System - 50/50 low silicate/water (yours may have no anti-freeze)
I don't recommend 303 - or any UTF for that matter - in a Jinma. Unless the hydraulics will never be used in temps under 50F, 303 is too thick. For the straight cut gears in the tranny and diffs - it's too thin.
Assuming you're still running OE fluids, flushing is highly recommended (once you drain the original fluids, you'll clearly see why) and residual kerosene is not a problem. I strongly advise flushing the entire system; to include pumps/hoses/cylinders. Personal choice, but I prefer kerosene to diesel fuel. You simply drain the old crud, top up to the dipstick mark with kerosene, close up the system, start the tractor. Drive a few figure 8s to clean the steering, raise and lower the TPH and FEL respectively. Stop engine/drain, being careful to have a LARGE container. More comes out that you will have put in. Watch closely what comes out. I use a strainer to help determine if a 2nd flush is required, plus that way you can re-use the original kerosene. Richard made another good point about the suction filter. As a general rule, a kerosene flush will do the job without having to take off the seat - but to be extra sure, there's nothing better than the Mark1 eyeball.
Residual kerosene is volatile enough to evaporate over time, so I personally don't bother with this next step. Since the specific gravity of kerosene (~0.82) is different than AW32 (~0.86), there is a way to get more kerosene back out. This is another argument to use kerosene rather than diesel (SG ~0.84); it separates better. After your final fill let the TPH and any other hydraulic accessories down so that all hydraulic fluid gets forced back toward the reservior. Give the kerosene and AW32 time to separate, the kerosene will go to the bottom of the reservior.
But if you go the evaporation route - like me - just remember to top up the fluid levels periodically. Took only a few weeks, and awhat little residual kerosene I had - was history.
Flush the tranny/rear diff and front axle as well, drive the tractor over some rough ground. The extra agitation helps clean. Pay particular attention to achieving good flow between the transmission housing and the creeper housing (if so equipped). You'll need to flush till kerosene is freely out the creeper drain. When doing the front end, don't miss the little drains under each drive housing.
Don't forget the injection pump either. Mine had terrible looking milky something in it.
And I found horrible amounts of rust - and no antifreeze - in the cooling system. I flushed IT as well (but not with kerosene, obviously).
//greg//
Paddy
Veteran Member
My KAMA instructions reccomended clean creak water or rain water!
Chip filled with the right mix.
Patrick
Chip filled with the right mix.
Patrick
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't recommend 303 - or any UTF for that matter - in a Jinma. Unless the hydraulics will never be used in temps under 50F, 303 is too thick. For the straight cut gears in the tranny and diffs - it's too thin.
)</font>
Greg.. I've got a question for you. You do realize that UTF is specced as a gear lubricant.. and that many large hp tractors use utf in final drives , diffies, and trannies.. And some tractors that it is specced for do have straight cut and spur gears...
Not disagreeing with you about the jinma specifically.. just bringing it up as a point of discussion. I realize that you have a great deal of experience with them, etc.
It's also apparent that these chineese machines, in some ways, are more related to the older technology like found in antique tractors, than some of the more modern designs.. general statement there, as I'm well aware that there are plenty of 'new' bells and whistles on them as well..
Looking forward to your answer.
thanks
Soundguy
)</font>
Greg.. I've got a question for you. You do realize that UTF is specced as a gear lubricant.. and that many large hp tractors use utf in final drives , diffies, and trannies.. And some tractors that it is specced for do have straight cut and spur gears...
Not disagreeing with you about the jinma specifically.. just bringing it up as a point of discussion. I realize that you have a great deal of experience with them, etc.
It's also apparent that these chineese machines, in some ways, are more related to the older technology like found in antique tractors, than some of the more modern designs.. general statement there, as I'm well aware that there are plenty of 'new' bells and whistles on them as well..
Looking forward to your answer.
thanks
Soundguy
Well,I'll be ******,,,you woulda thought whoever translated that into english woulda had one of those hummm,,,moments???? I'd go with fresh rain water every time though,,,course in winter would have to keep my tractor in my hut,,,but,,that shouldn't be a problem,,got a very big hut,,,keep it right besides the cow chip stove,,its to dangerous there for my babies to play anyways when the old stove is glowing red........thingy
bluechip
Veteran Member
Actually, there is a nifty handle on the block drain valve, you simply drain it at night and refill the next day, no antifreeze needed! Rain water (acid rain need not apply) is soft and does not rust up the block as much as hard water or high iron well water might. still we upgrade ours to anti freeze upon assembly, afraid someone might forget to drain or not realize a freeze is evident. We did get a jinma with a freeze plug out and a cracked block, seems someone at the factory must have forgot...
greg_g
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Looking forward to your answer. )</font>
Actually, I'm still waiting for the question
//greg//
Actually, I'm still waiting for the question
//greg//
Soundguy
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<font color="blue"> Looking forward to your answer. )
Actually, I'm still waiting for the question
</font>
I'm disapointed. I value your posts.. and was honestly interested in your answer.. Not answering a question but instead picking apart the wording is best left for politicians and lawyers..... and yes.. I know.. I messed up the wording of the question... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Never mind. it's clear that if you are going to split hairs over a grammer problem with my post.. that I don't need to bother with a post clarifying my previous post. After re-reading my post.. I obviously made a grammer error.. don't phrase a question out correctly.. however .. that said.. I don't think it's a stretch that it should be very clear contextually to determine what I was asking.. ( why you think UTF is not suitable for straight cut gears since some other tractor manufacturers think UTF is fine for straight cut gears ).
I'll bow out now for a while now... More and more.. i see the chinese sub is getting a bit more elite every day.. I think I'll stick to old fords.. nicer crowd.. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
later
Soundguy
Actually, I'm still waiting for the question
</font>
I'm disapointed. I value your posts.. and was honestly interested in your answer.. Not answering a question but instead picking apart the wording is best left for politicians and lawyers..... and yes.. I know.. I messed up the wording of the question... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Never mind. it's clear that if you are going to split hairs over a grammer problem with my post.. that I don't need to bother with a post clarifying my previous post. After re-reading my post.. I obviously made a grammer error.. don't phrase a question out correctly.. however .. that said.. I don't think it's a stretch that it should be very clear contextually to determine what I was asking.. ( why you think UTF is not suitable for straight cut gears since some other tractor manufacturers think UTF is fine for straight cut gears ).
I'll bow out now for a while now... More and more.. i see the chinese sub is getting a bit more elite every day.. I think I'll stick to old fords.. nicer crowd.. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
later
Soundguy
greg_g
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- Western Kentucky
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'll bow out now for a while now... More and more.. i see the chinese sub is getting a bit more elite every day.. I think I'll stick to old fords.. nicer crowd.. )</font>
If by "elite" you mean getting populated by members that actually own a Chinese tractor, then I agree.
But the statement you challenged (again) is quite self-explanatory as written;
"I don't recommend 303 - or any UTF for that matter - in a Jinma. Unless the hydraulics will never be used in temps under 50F, 303 is too thick. For the straight cut gears in the tranny and diffs - it's too thin."
My position on UTF has always been clearly limited to these small Chinese tractors, in this case DonMac's JM220. Your "big tractor" folks can use absolutely anything they want.
//greg//
If by "elite" you mean getting populated by members that actually own a Chinese tractor, then I agree.
But the statement you challenged (again) is quite self-explanatory as written;
"I don't recommend 303 - or any UTF for that matter - in a Jinma. Unless the hydraulics will never be used in temps under 50F, 303 is too thick. For the straight cut gears in the tranny and diffs - it's too thin."
My position on UTF has always been clearly limited to these small Chinese tractors, in this case DonMac's JM220. Your "big tractor" folks can use absolutely anything they want.
//greg//
Outbackfarm
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The loss of Greg or Soundguy would be a loss for all of us in this forum. Any time you get a group of people together you are going to have some minor conflicts. What I would ask for some to consider before leaving the forum is to remember the countless numbers of us who do not have the tractor experience that you bring to the table, The expertise of the members of this forum was a determining factor in my decision to buy a Jinma. And I value all of the opinions expressed, it is true I do not always agree with everything some of the members say but at least it made me think about what I was doing before I did it. When I changed the fluids on my tractor I read all of the posts I could on the subject then I came up with my own plan on how I was going to do the Job, The way I did the task was a combination of many of the members ideas. The most important thing was that I was well informed and could make my own decisions based on the experience of others. I got a great tip off of these pages on how to hook up a tractor to a load such as a plow minimizing the risk of flipping the tractor over. Who knows; if I had never read the posts on this subject I might have made a mistake that cost me my life as I know it. I had no idea how important roll over protection on a tractor is, After reading it I decided never to run my tractor with the ROP folded in the storage configuration, some day that may pay off big !!! I hope that in my life experiences I will be able to contribute something that makes a difference to some one reading these pages some day , Just as you experiences have enriched mine.
Scott /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Scott /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
JINMA224XR
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<font color="blue"> I'll bow out now for a while now... More and more.. i see the chinese sub is getting a bit more elite every day.. I think I'll stick to old fords.. nicer crowd..
later
Soundguy
</font>
SoundGuy,
Greg, is a very precise and meticulous person, IMHO, as I have read a lot of his posts. I am not defending Greg, but I have not came across anything that he has posted, that led me to believe that he is giving out anything less, than his best advice.
SoundGuy, you have a lot of Tractor Experience, but looking at your profile, you do not personally own a Chinese Tractor. And getting mad a Greg and then giving a Blanket statement as you did, is definitely offensive to others here in the Chinese Section.
I appreciate your useful, helpful information, but we Chinese Tractor owners need people Like Greg to help us out with all of the useful information that we can get, to try and keep our tractors running for as long as we can.
I disagree with Greg as well on the Universal Tractor Lubricants, as I get all of my Tractor Lubricants as Walmarts to save a much money as I can, and so far, I have came out ok. But we all do not have to think alike to be able to share useful information here, and try to help each other.
IMHO, Agree to disagree,
Get Your Tractors Running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
later
Soundguy
</font>
SoundGuy,
Greg, is a very precise and meticulous person, IMHO, as I have read a lot of his posts. I am not defending Greg, but I have not came across anything that he has posted, that led me to believe that he is giving out anything less, than his best advice.
SoundGuy, you have a lot of Tractor Experience, but looking at your profile, you do not personally own a Chinese Tractor. And getting mad a Greg and then giving a Blanket statement as you did, is definitely offensive to others here in the Chinese Section.
I appreciate your useful, helpful information, but we Chinese Tractor owners need people Like Greg to help us out with all of the useful information that we can get, to try and keep our tractors running for as long as we can.
I disagree with Greg as well on the Universal Tractor Lubricants, as I get all of my Tractor Lubricants as Walmarts to save a much money as I can, and so far, I have came out ok. But we all do not have to think alike to be able to share useful information here, and try to help each other.
IMHO, Agree to disagree,
Get Your Tractors Running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
bluechip
Veteran Member
One thing all of us need to keep in mind is that the written words here do not reflect the tone of the "speaker" so sometimes an attitude or inflection can be picked up that is not necessarily the intention of the poster.
Anyway, most (all?) Universal type oils are designed as a compromise, a hydraulic oil with sufficient lubricating qualities to double as gear oil. (others may say it is gear oil thinned out enought to be hydaulic oil). In any event, in tractors that do not use the trans oil for hydraulics, like the jinma and KAMA, there is little reason to use a compromise product. Heavier gear oil will keep gears quieter and will tend to ride up the gears for better lubrication above the oil level and not run off so fast. I would venture a guess that the clearances are greater on Chinese tractors with straight cut gears than more precise helical gear boxes found in more modern/expensive machines. In those, the lighter oil may be better.
So I recommend Gear oil in transmission/front axles and plain ole hydraulic oil in the hydraulic tank. (Kama actually specifies this).
But the bottom line is that universal will work fine, will probably not really harm anything. Heck the Jinma factory specs straight 30 wt for everything on the tractor. With most of the users only running 100-150 hours per year, it will take many many years before we see results of different maintenance habits...
Anyway, most (all?) Universal type oils are designed as a compromise, a hydraulic oil with sufficient lubricating qualities to double as gear oil. (others may say it is gear oil thinned out enought to be hydaulic oil). In any event, in tractors that do not use the trans oil for hydraulics, like the jinma and KAMA, there is little reason to use a compromise product. Heavier gear oil will keep gears quieter and will tend to ride up the gears for better lubrication above the oil level and not run off so fast. I would venture a guess that the clearances are greater on Chinese tractors with straight cut gears than more precise helical gear boxes found in more modern/expensive machines. In those, the lighter oil may be better.
So I recommend Gear oil in transmission/front axles and plain ole hydraulic oil in the hydraulic tank. (Kama actually specifies this).
But the bottom line is that universal will work fine, will probably not really harm anything. Heck the Jinma factory specs straight 30 wt for everything on the tractor. With most of the users only running 100-150 hours per year, it will take many many years before we see results of different maintenance habits...
SPIKER
Elite Member
i'd be afraid of cooking a minow or two catching creek water /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif lol
as for the other stuff, I use the 303 spec in trans & in hydraulice, start & run mine below 0 degrees F sure it takes a bit of time to warm up to working when its 10 degrees or so, but it does work fine for me in ohio. I've got about 100 hrs/ys, 3rd year starting now. anyhow when it is HOT the 303 seems to leak past seals faster as she gets to temps. I'm afraid the actuall hyd fluid would leak by faster.
I never flused out mine with anything some seals can be swelled by K1 or diesel fuel.... so I didn't think flusing the hyd fluid was worth it...
anyhow just my 2 cents worth, and maybe not even that /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Makrm
as for the other stuff, I use the 303 spec in trans & in hydraulice, start & run mine below 0 degrees F sure it takes a bit of time to warm up to working when its 10 degrees or so, but it does work fine for me in ohio. I've got about 100 hrs/ys, 3rd year starting now. anyhow when it is HOT the 303 seems to leak past seals faster as she gets to temps. I'm afraid the actuall hyd fluid would leak by faster.
I never flused out mine with anything some seals can be swelled by K1 or diesel fuel.... so I didn't think flusing the hyd fluid was worth it...
anyhow just my 2 cents worth, and maybe not even that /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Makrm
Well,,,when using clean creek water,,,you are right about those little minnows,,,wonder if tommy or one of the other parts dealers has heard of a chinese clean creek water strainer,,should be an easy enough modification to make,,,,,,,let me go to johns site and look,,,maybe somebody has already came up with the design,,,,,thingy
yugo
Bronze Member
Donmac - I'd like to add my two cents worth in to all the good advice. I think that GregG covered all the important lubricants, though I'm not familiar with the Campbell-Hauser compressor oil. Right or wrong we use the 15-40 in the injector pump. Oil subjects often turn up a big turmoil on these forums! We'll add to the subject that we change oil and filter every 50 hours, and every 100 hours we change injector pump oil. I'm a firm believer in changing transmission, differential and hydraulic oils every 300-500 hours - especially if the tractor sits out in the weather. Further comment on the 303 oil - The gentleman that mentioned that oil didn't state that these tractors that use that oil, have extremely big oil radiators - about the size of our jimna's water radiator, to keep that oil in proper temperature range. Jimna's don't have that capability.
Here we go with some off the wall figures - may not mean anything to anyone. The other day we were mowing the back acre hillside. The grass had gotten a little overgrown, and we were using a 6' finish mower. This hillside varies between 20 and 25 degrees in slope. We got out the "ray" gun - hand held infrared thermometer - outside temp was 88 degrees, radiator was running 156 degrees, block was running 170 degrees, oil 197 degrees, hydraulic filter was 132 degrees, oil pan was 188 degrees, hydraulic reservoir was 132 degrees, back differential was 116 degrees, transfer case was 120 degrees (in 4 wheel drive), and the front differential was running 109 degrees. The out final drives on the front was running 92 degrees. We shot various components on the tractor, and didn't find any hot bearings, or any other hot spots. But, the driver and the cup holder holding his adult beverage was running extremely hot!! If interested, look at the attachment for a scenic picture of "flatlands of Kansas"-my back yard. Yugo
Here we go with some off the wall figures - may not mean anything to anyone. The other day we were mowing the back acre hillside. The grass had gotten a little overgrown, and we were using a 6' finish mower. This hillside varies between 20 and 25 degrees in slope. We got out the "ray" gun - hand held infrared thermometer - outside temp was 88 degrees, radiator was running 156 degrees, block was running 170 degrees, oil 197 degrees, hydraulic filter was 132 degrees, oil pan was 188 degrees, hydraulic reservoir was 132 degrees, back differential was 116 degrees, transfer case was 120 degrees (in 4 wheel drive), and the front differential was running 109 degrees. The out final drives on the front was running 92 degrees. We shot various components on the tractor, and didn't find any hot bearings, or any other hot spots. But, the driver and the cup holder holding his adult beverage was running extremely hot!! If interested, look at the attachment for a scenic picture of "flatlands of Kansas"-my back yard. Yugo
