Looking for a farm truck...

[Fallon]

My 2009 Tacoma with a 6,000lbs tow capacity is maxed out by my 2,000lbs of trailer & 4,000lbs of tractor. Combine that with wanting a beater spare vehicle, something for my father-in-law to drive (he did more work than the twice what I can afford to put into the truck last time he was in town) and what not has me looking at getting something. I have dreams/delusions of possibly doing some tractor work as an occasional part time gig, and if so, probably use that farm truck for hauling over my Tacoma. I'm thinking something in the 3/4 or 1 ton range. It would be nice to load up a few implements in addition to the tractor & trailer, but I don't foresee pulling over 10-12k much if ever. The 16' tilting deck I have now is rated to 14k, but unless I got a mini excavator, I'd need a larger trailer just to fit that much bulk on a trailer.

I've got some decent mechanical skills, but not the most free time & don't wan to do a lot of wrenching on a vehicle. I'd prefer a diesel due to the durability & the fact fuel won't go bad as quickly if/when it sits for a while.

My budget is probably going to be in the $2-5k range. A quick look at Craigslist here in Denver seems to indicate something in the mid maybe late 90's with over 100k miles will line up there.

Any pointers on anything to look for or stay away from such as lemon years or models for engines, trannies, etc? Am I out of line think I can get a reasonably reliable truck for that price range?

 

[Buckgnarly]

Older 7.3 F series. The only thing that sucked on those F250s was the TTB suspension Ford put on them. You can avoid that buy going with an F350 or installing a solid axle Dana 60 from a 350. Great trucks, super easy to work on.

 

[Diamondpilot]

5K is not going to get you much. Getting it road legal may be the issue. Brakes for a 1 ton and tires will be another grand plus.

Bump your budget to 10K and you will be money ahead. Look for a high miles late model 3/4 ton GM with the 6.0L gas motor. Most bang for your buck.

Chris

 

[94BULLITT]

I'd look for an old Ford or Chevy with a big gas engine and a manual trans.

Look for a high miles late model 3/4 ton GM with the 6.0L gas motor. Most bang for your buck.

Chris

Nah, a Ford with a V-10 is:stirthepot:

 

[MinnesotaEric]

As Diamond Pilot said, lean toward GMC 3/4 and 1 tons as they were/are more highly regarded as the Chevy offerings.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'd look for an old Ford or Chevy with a big gas engine and a manual trans.

Nah, a Ford with a V-10 is:stirthepot:

Trust me, I would like to see him in a Ford but his budget is not going to get him a decent one. Around here 2500 series GM trucks with the 6.0 are a dime a dozen.

Guy 2 doors down just bought a 2005, 4x4, headache rack, snow way snow plow, GN hitch, new rubber, 131,000 miles for $8000.

Chris

 

[handirifle]

Except he said it might sit for a while, and wanted a diesel.

If you do get a gasser, you can add Stabil or similar to the gas, to keep it from destroying itself. Not sure how that affects power. Gassers will be cheaper to keep up, in some ways, but just as much in others.

In your stated budget, there won't be a lot to offer. AN older Dodge with the Cummins would be great, but you'd probably have to figure on going through the tranny at some point, that was a real issue on early Dodge diesels.

My Brother in law bought a 95 Ford 1 ton dually, flat bed diesel and has less than 5K in it. His is the older 7.3 turbo, IDI and runs great, BUT it does NOT have a lot of power. IIRC 95 was the transition year that Ford also put in the 7.3 Powerstroke. So if you find a 95 turbo diesel do not assume it's a Powerstroke. I don't know enough to tell you how to look at the engine and tell the difference but am sure someone here does.

He hasn't towed with his, but has hauled over 4K on the flatbed before.

Look for a 96 or so Flat bed Ford 1 ton with the Powerstroke and whatever else you want. Go to craigslist or autotrader and type in diesel and define how far out you want to look.

Deals are out there in your range, but it will probably have over 200K

 

[Fallon]

I want a diesel... But you don't always get what you want, especially with my budget. And it's want not need. Given my use case for the truck & not taking it more than an hour from the house mostly, I can probably get by with less HP as long as it's got good suspension & brakes.

Good:
F250 with a 7.3l diesel engine (great except for the front suspension)
F350 with a 7.3l diesel engine
GM 2500/3500 with a 6.0l gas engine (cheap)

Bad:
Ford 6.0l power stroke diesel engine

Should be a good starting point for more research, thanks for the info.

 

[handirifle]

As I mentioned, personally I'd look past the 7.3 IDI, as (at least based on my BIL's truck) it's under powered. He pulls a 7% grade here locally, EMPTY, and ends up down at 35-40 MPH because his EGT's go through the roof if he puts his foot into it more. Plus he gets only about 10-12 MPG on average. Pretty bad for a empty diesel.

I looked up the power rating for the latest IDI's and it's like 170hp and 420 on torque. Pretty darn low, especially by current levels. The down side is there is VERY LITTLE that can be done to boost power on them. I have read of a number of IDI's throwing rods when boost pressures get in the 15-20 psi range.

I think you should be able to find a Ford Powerstroke with 200K on the clock for your price, with a manual tranny, which is probably stronger than the auto for those years. Current production power levels are getting so high they de rate the engines power for manual transmissions, for those that still offer them.

As for the GM I haven't done any reading on the 6.5L diesel (also an IDI I THINK). I did work with a friend years back that had a 6.5 diesel in his Suburban and he always say it was pretty weak but got good MPG. Then when the internet got big (this was a few years ago mind you) he started finding tons of info on the net and made some minor tweaks and said it was a HUGE power difference, so that might be a thought as well.

Good luck. Let us know what you get.

 

[Diamondpilot]

As I mentioned, personally I'd look past the 7.3 IDI, as (at least based on my BIL's truck) it's under powered. He pulls a 7% grade here locally, EMPTY, and ends up down at 35-40 MPH because his EGT's go through the roof if he puts his foot into it more. Plus he gets only about 10-12 MPG on average. Pretty bad for a empty diesel.

I looked up the power rating for the latest IDI's and it's like 170hp and 420 on torque. Pretty darn low, especially by current levels. The down side is there is VERY LITTLE that can be done to boost power on them. I have read of a number of IDI's throwing rods when boost pressures get in the 15-20 psi range.

I think you should be able to find a Ford Powerstroke with 200K on the clock for your price, with a manual tranny, which is probably stronger than the auto for those years. Current production power levels are getting so high they de rate the engines power for manual transmissions, for those that still offer them.

As for the GM I haven't done any reading on the 6.5L diesel (also an IDI I THINK). I did work with a friend years back that had a 6.5 diesel in his Suburban and he always say it was pretty weak but got good MPG. Then when the internet got big (this was a few years ago mind you) he started finding tons of info on the net and made some minor tweaks and said it was a HUGE power difference, so that might be a thought as well.

Good luck. Let us know what you get.

Skip any GM diesel prior to the LBZ Dmax.

Chris

 

[paulharvey]

I would look at a late 80s early 90 big block chevy or ford. I've seen them as low as $2500 running and ready to tag. The 2WD ones aren't expensive.

 

[terryknight]

OP never said he needed 4x4. 94.5 was the change over to the PSD, they derated the turbo IDI that year because the powerstroke was coming out. All 94.5 had 5 speeds. The IDI can have the power boosted, not that hard to do. Handi I believe your friends trucks has something wrong with it. The TTBs sucked.

The GMs had overheating issues and frying electronics. Cummins are great the dodge part is the weakness there. And they hold heir value.

Any of th older diesels will do it, they will just do it slowly

You'll get better deals with gas.

 

[Clint S]

On the 2500/3500's check the exhaust manifolds, they rot out like a bad apples. If the truck was plowed check he front frame where the axle mounts.

Seen this more than once, most of the time not this bad but cracked none the less.

 

[schmism]

Im very happy with my 2001 E350 van. Its a 12pass that was used by a church. Has a bunch of miles but was clean and well maintained. It has the 5.4 and all disc's just like a one ton pickup. Gets 15 empty, 10-12 towing depending on conditions.

Ive had to do relatively normal stuff, a starter, an alternator. Had the shop do a coil pack and heater core that started leaking.

Most expensive maintenance was a new set of bilstein shocks which I had the shop do because the mounts were all rusted up. Ive also put a set of tires on it which were expensive but its likely an issue you will have with any used truck unless they were just replaced at which point you'll still be paying for it.

Ive probably put $300 in it a year but its nearly a daily driver with over 200K.

I gave 4K for mine in 2010 ish

 

[mo1]

My Brother in law bought a 95 Ford 1 ton dually, flat bed diesel and has less than 5K in it. His is the older 7.3 turbo, IDI and runs great, BUT it does NOT have a lot of power. IIRC 95 was the transition year that Ford also put in the 7.3 Powerstroke. So if you find a 95 turbo diesel do not assume it's a Powerstroke. I don't know enough to tell you how to look at the engine and tell the difference but am sure someone here does.

The easiest way to tell would be to look at the top of the engine. There were three 7.3 L diesel engines offered in 1995- the IDI non-turbo, IDI turbo, and DI turbo (Powerstroke.) The IDIs have a mechanical injection pump with hard lines coming from it like a pre-2014 diesel tractor sitting in the front of the intake valley. They also have exhaust manifold outlets that point down and back like a gas V8. There also is a fuel filter prominently sitting on the passenger side front of the engine. Those features are key to identifying an IDI vs. a DI 7.3. The IDI non-turbo is easy to identify as it has a round metal air cleaner sitting on top of the engine just like a V8 from the 1960s. None of the turbocharged diesels look like that. You will need to look at the exhaust manifolds and look for the injection pump to identify an IDI turbo vs. a DI turbo. The DI turbos have upwards-facing exhaust manifold outlets and no visible injection pump/hard lines. You can also try to look at the certification label on the rocker cover as it will tell you if it's an IDI, IDI turbo, or DI turbo/(DIT.) It will not say Powerstroke on the label anywhere.

As I mentioned, personally I'd look past the 7.3 IDI, as (at least based on my BIL's truck) it's under powered. He pulls a 7% grade here locally, EMPTY, and ends up down at 35-40 MPH because his EGT's go through the roof if he puts his foot into it more. Plus he gets only about 10-12 MPG on average. Pretty bad for a empty diesel.

Sounds like he maybe has an injection pump that needs re-timed as poor power and high EGTs can occur with overly-retarded timing. The pumps do wear out and need replaced about every 100k miles. IDIs are not particularly powerful but shouldn't be a real slug unless the injection pump is grossly mis-timed or worn out.

I looked up the power rating for the latest IDI's and it's like 170hp and 420 on torque. Pretty darn low, especially by current levels. The down side is there is VERY LITTLE that can be done to boost power on them. I have read of a number of IDI's throwing rods when boost pressures get in the 15-20 psi range.

The 7.3 IDIs were 185 hp/338 ft-lb for the naturally aspirated version and 190 hp/388 ft-lb for the turbo version. The reason people are blowing HEADS (not rods) is that the IDI was designed as a naturally-aspirated engine and has a very high compression ratio by today's DI turbodiesel standards at 21.5:1. You generally can put about 10-15 pounds into a studded IDI and it will be fine. You'll also need an upgraded injection pump to put in more fuel, an improved turbo down pipe (stock is squished massively to clear the firewall) and you can generally make 250ish HP and 500ish ft-lb torque.

If it were me I would go for a carbed 460 V8 truck as you can easily exceed those power figures simply by putting in a non-retarded timing set, a decent aftermarket exhaust, and an aftermarket carb that doesn't run ridiculously lean like the stock Holley 4180 did. All that will cost you about what a stock-capacity injection pump on an IDI will set you back. It will pull your load very nicely but 460s love their gas. You can easily swap in a stroker crank, a better cam, higher-compression heads, and/or higher-compression pistons if you want to make ridiculous power out of a big-block Ford.

I think you should be able to find a Ford Powerstroke with 200K on the clock for your price, with a manual tranny, which is probably stronger than the auto for those years. Current production power levels are getting so high they de rate the engines power for manual transmissions, for those that still offer them.

IIRC only Dodge still offers a stick. It's offered only with a Cummins ISB which is derated significantly to 610 ft-lb torque. That derating is apparently done because Dodge isn't willing to put in a transmission with a clutch large enough to hold more torque than that. Ford and GM simply threw in the towel and only offer slushboxes period.

As for the GM I haven't done any reading on the 6.5L diesel (also an IDI I THINK). I did work with a friend years back that had a 6.5 diesel in his Suburban and he always say it was pretty weak but got good MPG. Then when the internet got big (this was a few years ago mind you) he started finding tons of info on the net and made some minor tweaks and said it was a HUGE power difference, so that might be a thought as well.

Good luck. Let us know what you get.

The GM 6.5 is an IDI just like the IH/Ford 6.9 and 7.3 units and many older and smaller diesel tractors. There is somewhat of a performance community around the GM 6.5 as apparently its version of the Stanadyne mechanical injection pump (DS4) is much more amenable to dumping in more fuel than the IH/Ford one (DS2) so you can run a larger turbo with more boost. More fuel + more air = more power.

 

[Mike7.62]

I'm not a diesel mechanic, but have run a couple of the diesels under discussion in my time, and am still running one.

I had an '88 F250 with the TTB front, and can say that it (TTB) was the only downside to that truck. I changed out the front springs to McCoys and had no further problems. I wish that I still had it. It was an IDI NA, with 5 speed manual, 3.55 gearing. I got around 19-20 on the highway, and around 15 when towing my Jeep. I added a Banks turbo in 1990, and it made a heck of a difference, but you had to really watch the EGT. Sold it in 1997 and have regretted doing so ever since.

Went to a '96 1/2 ton F150 because I wasn't towing anything. Comfortable ride, but no guts with the 302.

Sold that and bought a 2003 F250 with the hated 6.0L. Still have that, and probably will for the rest of my life. I have not had any problems with it, and I tow a 26' gooseneck with my L4400 on it. My local mechanic was the lead diesel tech at the Ford dealership before going independent, and he can "bulletproof" the 6.0 by going to studs on the heads, and changing the EGR cooler with a stout aftermarket unit. I'm thinking of doing so, but it is an expensive proposition. $4000. But a new motor is around $18,000, and they have to remove the cab to install one, so maybe not so expensive after all.

From what I understand, the 6.0 was a great, reliable engine and had a good history in delivery vans prior to the torque/HP wars amongst the Big Three. Ford upped the HP/Q electronically, but didn't bother to upgrade the head bolts to studs to handle the increased pressure, causing many problems. Also the EGR was another weak point forced onto diesels by the EPA. Both are fail points for the 6.0.

The advice IRT the 7.3 is valid, and they will work fine if in good shape. The 6.0 not so much, but only because the history of how it was treated can influence its reliability. Being chipped is one indicator of abuse, as Ford detuned their PCM on the 6.0 to avoid problems. Chipping without the enhancements like studs and the EGR cooler fix is a recipe for problems.

If I was looking for a farm truck, I'd go with either the 7.3 IDI or the 460 gas motor in a Ford F250 or F350. GM and Dodge I can't comment on, as I don't have any experience with either brand. Good luck.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I would look for an '80s vintage 1-ton dually, 2wd with a big block, maybe even a cab/chassis with a 10-12' flat bed. I would also stick with Ford or Chevy, but that's just me. You can find some pretty nice ones in your price range if you look hard enough. Get it with a 4spd and 4.10 gears and it will easily tow what you need. The gas mileage will be poor, but for a truck like that it doesn't really matter. The savings over the purchase price vs a newer diesel will buy gas for many years.

 

[Fallon]

Ya, I tend to view plowing, chipping or lifting a truck as abuse. Definitely avoiding any obviously abused or beat up trucks as much as possible given my budget.

 

[handirifle]

If you're driving it little, the difference from gas to diesel might not be as important to you, so probably go with what's the best deal for YOU.

I learned a lot from the comments/responses to my last post on the older IDI's. I must have misread the HP numbers, after looking at Wikopedia I see the 6.9 was 170, and the 7.3 was 190 HP, but only 388 torque. The torque number is still surprising.

Terryknight

He has since had some exhaust issue repaired and has seen some improvement, and can take the same grade now at 45-55 MPH as opposed to 35 before, and EGT's are better. What are TTB's?

mo1
His IS a turbo model (factory), so where would we find out info on the pump timing, and/or upgraded one? Also who would carry an improved down pipe? Would the firewall have to be modified to fit it? Pretty sure he would like the extra power AND lower EGT's since he just added an Angler cab over camper to his truck.

The pump timing might be something he and I could NOT do, but definitely the down pipe is doable. How can you tell when it's a factory one, does it look badly ovaled?

 

[94BULLITT]

When the 7.3IDI is running right is amazing how well they do perform for no more power than they are.