Looking at B7800 or B2910

bobintexas · Nov 18, 2004

I am a new member, after a couple of months of visiting the site. I am considering the B7800, or possibly the B2910 and want to explore a few questions.

This first time post, I want to take some time introducing myself and what I have learned in my search so far. Sorry if this gets long.

First, I have 7.5 acres that transitions from open field to some tight areas between tree/brush islands to wooded - about 2.5 acres of each. I rotary cut all of it now, but want to move to a finish mower for maybe 1.5 acres. Besides mowing, the tasks include general landscaping and property maintenance clearing brush and trimming trees. Likely future tasks include tilling a modest garden and post holes.

I have an older B7100, 16hp, 1600hrs, 6x3, no PS, turf tires, with FEL and 4ft rotary cutter. It has been a good first tractor and a lot of fun. But it struggles in high grass and doesn't cut well. As I was considering buying a RFM, I realized I really needed a bigger tractor. And began the research to the age old question "how big a tractor do I need." I want to be able to mow with a 5' rotary cutter and 6' RFM, a good FEL, strong 3 pt, box blade, and someday tiller and phd. Looking to keep the new tractor 15 years.

Research to date has been limited to looking and touching, pouring over brochures, websites, and TBN, and has included all the major brands. I had not tried any until just recently, see later. What I think I have learned is that I need around 30 hp with at least 20 PTO hp for the implements I plan to use. I have been up and down the B and L series, settling in on the B7800/2910 size I think.

With Fall work to do, I rented a B2710 to help decide. It had a FEL and Ind tires. I had a blast. I loved the power, HST, power steering and continuous PTO. It was a joy to maneuver, mowed the field easily with my cutter with a much better cut, and was the right size in the tighter areas I have to mow. I am satisfied I don't need the L series, and probably not smaller than the B2710. The loader was very quick and responsive. In fact I had some trouble with it when I intended small, fine control motions. Probably just my lack of experience with a joy stick. I figured out I may want foldable ROPS to mow closer under trees, a 54" bucket was fine, and speed hold on this model was just enough cruise control for the field mowing.

Ok, my first questions.

1. Most brands have larger frames at 30hp, except the MF 1428/1431 which is very similar to the 7800/2910 it seems. As I mentioned above, I really like the physical size of this tractor. Are there any issues with the power/weight ratio since most other tractors go heavier at this hp?

2. These are the only tractors with 4 cyl engines at 30hp. What is the advantage of 4 cyl? The rental yard at the dealership said it had more torque and that the B2710 (HST with 20hp PTO) can drive a 5' cutter (except they won't rent that).

3. The industrial tires on a heavier tractor than mine, made more marks than I am used to, even in 2wd and fairly slow, modest turns. I thought I was sold on ind tires, now I have some doubt. Any comments?

4. Anyone else have sensitivity problems with the loader, or is it just newbie issue?

I am having a lot of fun in the hunt for a new tractor. I would appreciate your comments and insights.

aloha · Nov 19, 2004

( Are there any issues with the power/weight ratio )
Yes. I chose the B7800 over an L series to keep the weight down to something my current pickup could tow on a trailer, but the tradeoff is some loss of traction. I think the L3130 is a tremendous value and often wish for its weight, but I like what I have.

( industrial tires on a heavier tractor than mine, made more marks than I am used to )
You could reduce the tire marks with turf tires, but would sacrifice a lot of traction. This is part of the reason I think finish mowing is generally better done with a garden tractor. Can you keep the B7100 with its turf tires for the turf work?

( Anyone else have sensitivity problems )
Now, there are some things we just don't discuss in public. Seriously, with experience your skills will increase.

ronjhall · Nov 19, 2004

Welcome to TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I stared out with a B7100HST in the 80's and purchased a B2910 in 2000.

 OK, my first questions. 

 1. Most brands have larger frames at 30hp, except the MF 1428/1431 which is very similar to the 7800/2910 it seems. As I mentioned above, I really like the physical size of this tractor. Are there any issues with the power/weight ratio since most other tractors go heavier at this hp? 

Most of the weight concerns can be addressed by adding ballast. My Kubota weight box weighs over 500 lbs. It works very well with my FEL. It is easy to remove for lawn cutting.

2. These are the only tractors with 4 cyl engines at 30hp. What is the advantage of 4 cyl? The rental yard at the dealership said it had more torque and that the B2710 (HST with 20hp PTO) can drive a 5' cutter (except they won't rent that). 

Smoother. I have a 6' Rotary Cutter. In real heavy grass it will bog down. Just let up on HST pedal and keep moving at a slower speed. I have a 72"MMM that has never bogged down while cutting grass.

 3. The industrial tires on a heavier tractor than mine, made more marks than I am used to, even in 2wd and fairly slow, modest turns. I thought I was sold on ind tires, now I have some doubt. Any comments?

 I have turf tires. It depends on the surface you run on. On grass the turfs are better. On sand the turfs would be better. For snow I feel the turfs are better. I wore out a set of front tires using the loader on blacktop. Rears still look like new. Unless you have other task than stayed you should be OK with either tire. I believe the black marks are from the ability of the B2910 to turn a lot sharper than the B7100.

 4. Anyone else have sensitivity problems with the loader, or is it just newbie issue? 
It is a newbie and a sensitivity issue. I have 4 different attachments for my FEL. Each one has special needs to get smooth operation for the task being done. I run the engine about 2000 RPMs for FEL work. But when setting attachment with the pallet forks on the shelfs I have built for my attachments. I drop the RPMs down to idle for better control.

 I am having a lot of fun in the hunt for a new tractor. I would appreciate your comments and insights. 

Unless you have found a dealer that has a B2910 in stock you may want to look at a B3030 which is the replacement for the B2910. Looks like some of the upgrades will make it a better tractor. It's price is going to be lower than the B2910. You may not find a B3030 at a dealer yet. My dealer says he expects to have one soon.
The B7800 has the same spec's as the B2910 but does not have the same deluxe features, hydraulics outlets, and 3PH control.
Enjoy your search. I'm sure you will get a lot of advice from other TBN'ers.

KubotaSteve · Nov 19, 2004

I have the B7800 with loaded R-4's. I was also looking at the 2710, 2910 and the L3130 but chose the 7800 for the price and size. I went from a B7200. My R-4's don't really mark up the yard that much but I leave my grass higher too. I like the heavier R-4's as they seem to give more stability when using the loader plus I have a lot of trees with rather large thorns and they haven't punctured the R-4's yet.
I am glad I went with the 7800 instead of the L3130 because of size. The L3130 would have been too big for me only have 6.5 acres and trying to mow around things would leave a lot to push mow. I have been very impressed with the FEL power and with the rear PTO power while bushhogging weeds that were over 4 foot high with my 5 foot cutter. With the HST it works great easing up in the heavy stuff and mashing the pedal down in the light stuff. I also have a 60" MMM and it works great and when doing moderate FEL work, it pins up high out of the way and is very simple to remove. I have used my 60" boxblade and dropped the rippers all the way down and pulled it with no problem on a slick clay surface.
As far as the FEL control, when I first got it I bounced myself around with it quite a bit and made a few messes, but after a year of use I've gotten much better with it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
As far as choosing the 7800 or the 2910, I decided on the 7800 as I could use the extra $$$ saved to get a couple of implements and decided I could due without the creature comforts of the 2910. If you got the extra money go with the 2910 or 3030 but I think the B series frame would be perfect for what you described, although it would be nice to have the bigger machine in the L3130 it just may be counter productive in a smaller area.

Bird · Nov 19, 2004

I, too, am one of those who went from a '95 B7100 to a '99 B2710, although I stayed with R1 (Ag) tires. So, naturally I think you're looking at the right tractors for your use. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I've always felt that Kubota is a bit conservative in their implement recommendations. I had a 4' brush hog (Bush Hog Squealer) with the B7100, but moved up to a 5' one (Howse 500) for the B2710, was happy with it, and would not have wanted anything smaller. I had no finish mower with the B7100, but used a 5' RFM (Bush Hog) with the B2710. I've no doubt it could have pulled a 6' one just fine, but the 5' one was my preference and I never experienced any engine loading with the 5' mower.

As for the sensitivity with the FEL, I never had a problem with that. I think practice with the joystick will take care of any problem, although lower RPM can also slow it, if necessary.

fishman · Nov 21, 2004

Bobintexas,

You've gotten some really good advice here, and I can't add too much. I really think you are on the right track for the correct tractor. I purchased my 2910 a little over three years ago and am very happy with it. Every time I wish I had gone with a bigger tractor, I find myself squeezing into a small spot to do something and knowing a bigger tractor would not have worked. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I don't use my 5' rotary cutter much, but I can tell you that the 2910 can run it very handily. As you point out, competitors in this frame size usually run a 25 hp engine or there-abouts and the extra horsepower is welcome when running pto driven attachments.

You mention a post hole digger. The 2910 is rated for a 12" auger and will run that easily in rocky soil at 1300 rpms on the tach. My biggest problem is shearing the 5/16" bolts that are spec for the TSC digger I have. Put a 9" auger on it and no sheared bolts and of course, plenty of power. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I really like my R-4 industrial tires. I do a lot of loader/clearing work on my 10 acres, so they are subjected to a lot of stobs and rocks. So far I have had one flat on each of my front tires. One was a sharp stob through the tread which had to be patched and the other was a stick popping the bead. I don't think turfs would be that good for property clearing as you mention.

Someone mentioned converting your 7100 to a finish mower for the 1.5 acres you are planning for yard. That makes a lot of sense to me. Lots of people have two tractors. If it's a good one you can be sure you will regret selling it. Use the big tractor for all your big tractor tasks and retire the 7100 to lawn mowing and other light duty tasks which it will do better, perhaps.

Oh, a couple of other points that you mention. The foldable rops is quite a bit higher on the 2910 than the fixed rops. If you have a 7' garage door, I think you will have to fold it to put your tractor away. My 2910 with fixed rops and r-4's is several inches short of 7'. My experience with foldable rops is not very favorable. It's a pain to keep putting them up and down. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I also have the 54" bucket. After adding a toothbar (you are adding a toothbar, aren't you /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif), it has plenty of capacity and at least theoretically more digging force than the 60" bucket.

Someone mentioned looking for the 3030. It's the replacement for the 2910 and looks to be an improvement in many areas, although nothing earthshattering (unless you want a cooled cab and/or a frame mounted backhoe). It's possible you might get a bit better deal on a leftover 2910 because of the new model, though.

Have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

snmhanson · Nov 22, 2004

I bought my first tractor, a B7800, last April for our five acres and I am extremely happy with it. The size for me is perfect. Sure, every now and then I wish I had a bigger tractor but then I realize how much I would loose in terms of small tractor funtionality if I had bought a bigger tractor. For the work you mentioned I think the B7800 would be plenty. Like others have said you can always add weight in the tires or with balast if you need it.

As far as your first question, I think the power to weight ratio issue is really dependent on what you want to do with the tractor. If you need to leave a light footprint in areas but still need (or simply want) the power I think this is where the B7800 really shines. Actually, if you are not routinely doing heavy work I think the B7800 is perfect. However, if you're only going to do grunt work with it where you need the traction and aren't worried about leaving some tracks then I don't think it would hurt to have a heavier tractor such as the L series as long the larger size wouldn't be an issue. I personally don't have any significant issues with the weight/power ratio of my tractor.

I don't know much about the engines so I can't give a definitive answer to your second question. I was told by a farmer though that the four cylinder engine will be smoother than the three cyliner engines and I found that to be true when comparing a B7510 to the B7800. However, I can't say for sure whether that was due to the engine, the tractor or some other factor.

I initially had industrials on mine but switched to turfs and turfs are the only thing I've ever driven on my grass. With the turfs as long as I don't turn too sharply they do fine considering it is a large tractor compared to a rider mower or BX tractor. As others have said though, if possible I would recommend using a smaller machine to mow with. The B7800 with mmm does a nice job but there are several factors that would make me rethink my decision to mow with the B7800. Size, weight and convenience are a few of them. The main factor is price though. The mmm is pretty darn expensive and if you want to bag your grass a bagger to fit it the mower deck costs almost as much as the deck costs. You pay over $2000 for the deck (over $4000 if you need a grass catcher) and end up with results that are less than that of a $2500 rider mower. I do have to say that is is very quick mowing with the B7800 and pretty fun as well but I'm not sure it is the best way to go. Back to tires though. I would only recommend turfs if it is going to be your main mowing machine and you want to minimize tire marks in your grass.

You'll get used to using the loader. I was a little clumsy with it at first and although I am still no pro I am much better at operating it and can always get it to do what I want.

Finally, between the B7800 and B2910 I don't know what to tell you. From what I gather one of the primary advantages to the 2910 is it has position control for the 3 point hitch and the 7800 has the quarter inching valve. I guess position control would be nice but I get along fine with my quarter inching valve. I think you just need to decide if the extra features of the 2910 are worth the extra $$ to you. They will both take the same implements and do the same jobs.

Hope this helped. I think I basically restated what others have said but I know when I was looking the more posts I got the better.

Matt

snmhanson · Nov 22, 2004

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I measured my foldable ROPS and from the floor to the top of the ROPS is about 7'4". I agree that folding them is kind of a pain but it is really nice for mowing under trees and stuff. If I was doing it again I would still go with foldable ROPS.

Matt

KubotaSteve · Nov 22, 2004

The foldable ROPS on my 7800 with R4's when up is right at 8 feet tall. I can't leave it up and go into my shed which is the 12 X 16 barnstyle from 84 Lumber. The door opening is just under 8 feet tall (95" or so). When folded, it is probably about 5.5 feet tall, but then again mine is a 2003. Myabe they increased the height.

ronjhall · Nov 22, 2004

There are 2 reasons to want the Foldable ROPS.
1. It allows for clearance to get under trees.
2. It is a requirement when purchasing a Kubota Backhoe.

I am not sure that putting the ROPs down for mowing lawn will help much with pine trees.
Even with the fold ROPs there was a issue with lowering it when the backhoe is on. Cross bar will hit the backhoe levers.

bobintexas · Nov 26, 2004

Thanks all for the comments, ideas, and of course the support for my poor FEL skills. What a wealth of experiece. And, yes, I will get a toothbar. Learned that trick from TBN posts.

First let me add some info on my mowing chore. The 1.5 acres I want to finish mow is still field, prairie grass. It is not a sodded or seeded yard. I may have over stated my concerns about marks and mislead that I have nice grass. The house sits back among trees with just a small amount of nice grass for a yard. A push mower works well. I want to cut some of the close in field and frontage a bit nicer than the rotary cutter can do. The tractor can get to these areas just fine. I just don't want to get this area all rutted up over time. From your comments, I am leaning back to R4's for the traction they offer for all jobs and I feel I can drive with better technique.

I have been mulling over and over the suggestions to keep the 7100 for the finish mowing task and small jobs. Very interesting. My older 7100, though, has no mid pto for MMM, has a manual tranny and the pto is transmission driven (ie not continuous). Those features make it some work to mow. I think the right size new tractor (7800) will be so much easier (read fun) that I am afraid the 7100 would just sit there. Regarding other suggestions, if (when) the hand mowing becomes a chore, I can see a riding mower becoming the in-between tool.

Thanks for the positive comments on power/weight. They bring out a few new questions regarding balance. With an easy on/off FEL, I will probably run the mowing operation without the FEL. Tight areas will be that much easier and I won't damage trees. Will I need front weights? How much? For FEL work, can you get by with just one of these - filled rear tires, weight box, or box blade only? Or do you need the combination filled tires plus something? I researched a few TBN posts but I am still not that clear on this issue. My 7100 has filled tires, and I forgot to check the 2710 rental.

The Foldable ROPS comments are very interesting. I have not dealt with ROPS yet, except the rented 2710 kept me much further out from under the trees than I was accustomed to with the 7100 no ROPS. I still think I want foldable ROPS. Didn't realize they were hard to deal with. The extra height won't be a problem, I have 10ft doors. I will need to go to the dealer and operate one.

I appreciate how loyal the 7800 owners are as I am likely to be one. Regarding the 2910 extras, I don't know if they are worth it. It will be interesting to see if the 3030 really is priced lower than a 2910 and how close to the 7800 it gets. The features I value the most are the 3ph attachment and position control. I like the idea of the rear hydraulics but honestly don't know what implement I would want that needs it. I noticed the position control immediately on the 2710 rental compared to my 7100 crude up/down control. I have not tried the QIV but I expect it to be closer to how my 7100 operates than position control. I have to go test it out at the dealer too. Don't know if that can be an individual option to the 7800.

The biggie for me is easy implement hook up. I leave my cutter on (my only implement right now) nearly 100%, whether it makes the FEL job awkward or not, because I think it is so difficult to attach and remove. That will be a problem as the years go by for the length of time I intend to own and operate the new tractor. Plus, I intend to own more implements and swap between them with some frequency in the future. The 2710 rental had telescopic stabilizers which helped some, but I still had to push the cutter around to get it hooked up. I would think the extendable arms, telescopic stabilizers, and ratchet lift rod would be much better. Any experiences? I guess I can add those to the 7800 rather than go all the way to a 2910 (or 3030).

Going down a different path, I have recently been researching TBN for an alternative to those 3ph features - the quick hitch, quick coupler type systems. An example is the Speeco rig. These look and sound pretty slick. One issue seems to be that they all aren't perfectly univerasal, all usually needing some 'adjustment' to your implements, which concerns me some. I am interested in your experiences between the adjustable link system (good enough?) and these quick hitch systems (better?).

Hope you are having a great Thanksgiving holiday.

Bob

Henro · Nov 26, 2004

I would think the extendable arms, telescopic stabilizers, and ratchet lift rod would be much better. Any experiences? I guess I can add those to the 7800 rather than go all the way to a 2910 (or 3030).


Bob, a year ago I priced these items as I was thinking I might like to adapt them to my BX2200. My recollection is that they were quite expensive to buy as replacement parts. Something on the order of $500 to $600 to get what you listed.

You could verify this by going to tractorsmart.com and down loading the parts manual for the B2910, then plugging all the parts numbers into their on-line pricing tool.

I might even be low in what I think the price would be. I remember emailing Tractorsmart to verify the price of one piece, thinking it might be a pair of which ever part that was, and the reply was, that the price was for one, not two...

IF the extendable lower links and ratcheting side adjuster is important to you, and if the price difference between the B7800 and the B2910/3030 is only a $1,000 or so, it probably would make more sense to buy the deluxe tractor. The suspension seat is also a nice feature, by the way.

All depends on the cost difference, which I am not up to date on. I just guessed on that $1,000...seemed to remember someone throwing out that number in the past...

riptides · Nov 26, 2004

Telescopic Links ( I guess I can add those to the 7800 rather than go all the way to a 2910 (or 3030).
) Yep. But as Henro said if your looking at 1k difference, you might as well get the 2910 or 3030. I like my 7800, but when the Links go, I may move up to the telescopic stuff just to save my knuckles and back.

It is a tough choice, but remember money over pain. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bobintexas · Nov 26, 2004

Henro,
Thanks for the info on the links. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but wow. The sum of the parts is greater than the whole I guess. How do you like these links on your 2910? Do they help? You must like them since you were looking to modify your BX2200. What do you know about the quick hitch devices?

aloha · Nov 27, 2004

( The biggie for me is easy implement hook up. )
I struggled with attachments until I discovered that a 5' long 2x4 used as a lever will easily shift a 500+ lb box scraper or brush hog onto the 3PH.

I am considering replacing my turnbuckle "check chains" with the pinned stabilizers the 2910 uses to adjust the width of the lower links.

Henro · Nov 27, 2004

How do you like these links on your 2910? Do they help? 

Yes, they help more than you can imagine. ESPECIALLY if you have a 3PH backhoe! I can't imagine putting my backhoe on without them. It is just so obvious how much they help each time I put the backhoe on.

You get close to whatever you want to hook up, then you have several inches of extension to play with. So if the heavy implement is not exactly square to the tractor, you can usually get both lower arms hooked up without having to move the implement. Not always maybe, but almost always.

Once the top link is hooked up, you lift the 3 PH and the lower extensions generally click back in place on their own. If they don't you back up with the implement on the ground and they will push back in.

I would not buy a tractor without them if the option was available. But I might buy a tractor without them if I really liked the tractor and was willing to struggle a little more just to have it... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don't have any experience with quick hitches...

rswyan · Nov 27, 2004

Like Henro says, they are very, very handy <another satisfied B2910 owner>

( Once the top link is hooked up, you lift the 3 PH and the lower extensions generally click back in place on their own. )

Of course you don't want to do this with a Kubota 3PT backhoe - unless you have the lift limiter on the 'hoe unbolted - otherwise you might hose the 3PT.

rswyan · Nov 27, 2004

Come to think of it, you wouldn't even want to do it even with the lift limiter unbolted - due to the design (double pin) of the top mast assembly.

bobintexas · Dec 2, 2004

Henro, I went to tractorsmart.com and found the parts area but could't get the parts list or a download. Is there a trick?

Henro · Dec 2, 2004

I went to tractorsmart.com and found the parts area but could't get the parts list or a download. Is there a trick?


I think if you email them they will send you a link to the parts manual you want.

I remember that once I saw the way they set up their data base that it was easy to figure out how to download other manuals you might want to look at too.

Unfortunately, I don't remember what the link was...

But if you send them an email, the will likely be back to you promptly with the link you need to download the manual.

Well worth the effort of sending an email to them...

Best I can tell you...try it, you'll like having the PDF manual I think. If you don't already have Adobe reader (or whatever they call it) on your computer, you will need it, but it is also available free on the net.

Hope this helps....