Looking at a LK3054

To20Chris · Feb 28, 2004

Hello - I 'm new on this forum, but I’ve been reading for several weeks - it's a great place to learn! This first post may get a bit long & rambling, so I’ll apologize in advance! I've been shopping for a CUT for a couple of months, and almost bought a B7610 Kubota (very good local dealer), but got cold feet due to the light weight & ladder frame.

Initially I really liked the CK20HST, but it seemed down on power (on paper), and the dealer is ~30mi. I looked at MF 1423 & 1428v & thought they were noticeably poor quality, so I finally went to look at the Kiotis. I am very impressed with the quality & I really liked the CK20HST, I think it has it all over a B Kubota. However, it seemed a little slow, like I could feel the power loss, although the one I drove had something amiss with the pedal, so that may be coloring my opinion. I’ve also never driven a Hydro, and running it at a constant RPM seems slightly strange. I also drove an LK3054 (not an XS), and it seems like a great machine, but I had not researched that model & now I’m trying to get up to speed. I’m used to an old Ferguson TO-20, so frankly the crowded operator station and stick on the gearbox don’t bother me, but I’ve got a couple of questions:

1. Has there been any history of lack of hydraulic pump volume, or clutch problems, or did they just beef this up in the XS to keep up with the Kubota Ls?
2. I’m ignorant about the shuttle gearbox. I liked it a lot, and it had a more direct connected feel that the hydro (gee, what a surprise!), but I’m getting lost in the terminology. What, if any, is the difference between synchro shuttle & what is on the LK3054?

I’ll be getting an FEL and probably a Rhino 65A BH on whichever I buy – the dealer says that Kioti used to use the Rhino anyway, and it sure does look the same. I’ll also get R4 tires. Does $19K seem reasonable for an LK3054 set up like this? I’ll be using it for general hauling of bedding, spreading stone & raking out the ring, but I also have a lot of briar clearing to do, as well as quite a bit of drainage and swale work to do to control the water problems I have. I’m sure it will move its share of snow too! It’s the digging that makes me want the bigger & heavier unit, but I’m still not sure it’s worth it to move up from the CK20HST. I would love to use it to level an area for a riding ring, and while that is probably out of the range of either of these units, I guess I’m still leaning towards the LK3054. I will have to decide soon though, because if I talk about this to my wife much more, she’s gonna shoot me! Thanks again for all the free advice I’ve gotten so far!

lablovers · Feb 28, 2004

To20Chris,
I hope you are ready for the replies. They are going to be all over the board. It is going to make your head swim. But it is great fun unless you are my wife. See told me yesterday to hurry and buy the tractor before she goes crazy.

I have been looking seriously lately at the LK3054XS. No one here has the old version. I agree it is a great tractor. I think the changes make a tried and true unit much better. Talking with the dealer he said about 50% of his sales are the 3054 with all others making up the balance. It seems to be a good all purpose unit. Also, drove the Mahindra 2610 with the HST, another good product but the BH is not available yet. I really like how Kioti has a heavy frame to add to the strength when using the BH. Have to check out the Mahindra web site to see if they have something similar. You might want to go with the 7 1/2 foot BH instead of the 6 1/2. Most of those sold in our area are the 7 1/2.

Your price of 19,000 for TLB is pretty good. The 7 1/2 might kick it up a bit. Out here in California the same set-up is going for around 22,000. But that is the first price quoted. I have found the same in Texas with 7 1/2 hoe for $19,500.

I don't think you can go wrong with most tractors. Just seems to be what fits. I noticed that I did not like the feel from the drivers seat on many so be sure to get something that feels comfortable.

Good luck and post picture of what you purchase.

Richard aka Lablovers

KiotiJohn · Feb 28, 2004

( However, it seemed a little slow, like I could feel the power loss, although the one I drove had something amiss with the pedal, so that may be coloring my opinion. I’ve also never driven a Hydro, and running it at a constant RPM seems slightly strange. ) Hi TO20Chris. Welcome to TBN. I have a CK20HST and don't find any problem with the power. Yes, you do set the throttle at the RPM you want to use, but it does not have to be the maximum at all times. If you are in High Range, you can experience a little loss if you don't have the RPM up when you're making a full sharp turn which brings the hydraulics down a bit. Low range is for really working and pulling, high for getting on down the road. I think if you were to use this tractor for a little while, you'll see that is quite capable of doing most of the jobs you want to do. I have the FEL, and BH (been backordered, but coming soon), boxblade, boom pole, clamp on forks, brush mower. It does everything I need it to do. With the 3054 you would be able to carry a little larger implement and maybe get a little more work done, but I think either tractor will do what you need to do. Of course, excluding taxes, the CK20 will save you $2-3K most likely. You can't know what this little beast will do unless you can really try it out. Do a search for CK20HST and read Dewave's posts as well as mine and you'll see we're doing a lot with our tractors and so could you. If you like the dealer and feel he/she will do a good job for you, the price is in the park for the 3054. I understand the Backhoes were made by Rhino for a time, but are now made by Kioti. Either way you go, you'll love a Kioti. I saw the Mahindras as well, and they are very nice, just didn't like the dealer. I was meant to get Kioti I guess and I'm not sorry for a second with 60 hard working hours so far, it's going strong. Best of luck, let us know. John

wallace · Mar 1, 2004

To20Chris, Wher in Pa. is Hereford?

To20Chris · Mar 1, 2004

Just South of Allentown

wallace · Mar 1, 2004

To20Chris I am up around Scranton and I have a 3054 in stock you might be interested in Please call me if you want a price. (570)689-7494

virgil · Mar 1, 2004

Do you realize that you can get the CK 20 with a standard transmission for about a grand less... The shift pattern is as fast as a shuttle. Notice I said that the pattern is as fast as a shuttle, I did not say it had a shuttle.
I like gears better anyway, you get a few more ponies on the ground and at the PTO, and I sure like the grand ($) in my pocket.
That hydro is easy to operate.

To20Chris · Mar 1, 2004

Virgil, I was thinking about going that way too, but I don't really want another trans-driven pto. A shuttle shift I would make it more interesting, but that would be unusual in that class of tractor it seems. I was also thinking about that $1000 price adder for the hydro - they all charge a premium for it, but I would not be surprised if the overall mechanical complexity of the hydrostatic system is less than that of a mechanical tractor. After all, a shuttle shift tractor has a hydraulic pump as well as all the bits in the transmission. Anyone have a feel for the relative reliability?

KiotiJohn · Mar 1, 2004

TO20Chris, I just realized I never answered your question about synchro shuttle and Mechanical shuttle. With the Mecanical (3054) Shuttle, you must come to a complete stop before moving the shuttle into either the Forward, or the reverse. With synchro shuttle, you can still be moving some and it will change to the opposite direction without grinding. If I remember correctly, the main gear (as opposed to the shuttle lever) is synchronized, so you can change gears while moving as in from 1st to second without grinding by pushing in the clutch and selecting the gear you want. Just the shuttle is not synched. I hope this clears it up a bit. You have to go to the Kioti DK35 or better to get the synchro shuttle option. John
CK20Action

To20Chris · Mar 2, 2004

Thanks for the info John - that is what I was guessing. I don't have much feel for how big a deal that is. Initially I will be painfully slow with the FEL, so I can't imagine the mech shuttle will slow me down much, but eventually I will learn what I am doing. So the question is will the lack of synchro on the shuttle get in the way then? The learning curve would be steeper with the mech shuttle too (more controls to operate). It's a tough call, with the LK3054 having more power, weight, and a more powerful FEL, but a more cumbersome transmission system.

Golfgar4 · Mar 2, 2004

( It's a tough call, with the LK3054 having more power, weight, and a more powerful FEL, but a more cumbersome transmission system. )

ToDoChris,

Excuse me for saying this, but at the point that you're at, what difference does it make? If I'm reading the information that you posted correctly, you've never driven any of these transmissions for any length of time. Is this correct?

If that's the case, then whichever version you ultimately select will be the one that you will become most comfortable with and the most skilled at operating. I mean, you can't miss something that you've never had, right?

Please don't take this wrong. ALL transmissions are GREAT! (how's that for being diplomatic /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif). But a person needs to decide which "style" suits them best, regardless of whether it's because of ease of use, the cost factor, or the fact that you like the shape of the knob at the end of the shaft.

Don't go assuming that just because many other people tell you something is true that it is true. Many excellent tractor operators would not have anything but a straight manual transmission, and certainly would not consider them as being cumbersome.

You need to buy what fits you best, and once you make the decision, you'll become an extremely skilled operator of that particular style. Then later on, you can tell some "NEWBIE" about the advantages of your tractor based on your experiences.

Oh yeah, I did mention that I haven't purchased my tractor yet, didn't I? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

KiotiJohn · Mar 2, 2004

Chris, there aren't any more controls to operate with mechanical shuttle VS Synchro Shuttle. There is one lever to move back and forth in addition to gear selection. I don't think you'll find it all that cumbersome, and within no time, you will have your own rhythm for using the loader and probably won't even notice the quick stops you'll make before shifting the shuttle lever to the opposite direction. Unless you're going to be doing a lot of commercial work where time is of the utmost, the stopping isn't going to be that much of a bother in my opinion. John

Charlie_in_TX · Mar 2, 2004

I have little (less than a hour) experience with a shuttle shift so I will limit any comments about them.

I have many hours on a JD750 with FEL gears no shuttle, and a 8N gears no shuttle. And a few hours on hydros, a JD2210 with FEL and a Mahindra 2615 with FEL.

IMO gears are good for ground ingaging work, fair at mowing, and poor at FEL. Put a plow on the 8N and you can make quike work of turning a little ground. The FEL on the 750 is a PITA to operate.

The shuttle should make a geared tractor handy for FEL work, good at ground ingagement and still fair at mowing. Go into a pile in a low gear, fill the bucket, shift quikly into reverce and back out, shift to forward and dump load.

The hydro is good for loader work. It excells at mowing. And is below the others in ground ingagement.

A larger heaver tractor will almost always do more work than a lighter tractor, no matter the transmition. A 3000#, 30hp hydro will do more work then a 2000#, 30hp gear. The one exception I can think of where heavier is not nessecarily better is mowing. That is were HP is king and weight is somewhat irrelavent.

To20Chris · Mar 2, 2004

Thanks for all the info guys, it has been very helpful. I have just finished the deal for the LK3054. In the end, the deciding factors were:

1. Weight & power. I looked at the stuff I want to do, and it really seems that bigger is better. It will help for the digging, and some of the stuff I want to clear will get pretty heavy, including a lot of downed tree trunks from some past very sloppy logging.

2. I figure I will learn to use it. Like an 8N, my old TO20 is not so handy at some things, like the auger I just used to put in 120 fence posts! But then, it did it too.

3. I will not be mowing with it much. It may run my 5' Dixie Cutter sometimes, but mostly that will stay on the Ferguson - just cause I like it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

4. It seemed like a good deal at $2k more than the CK20HST.

For reference, I will be getting an LK3054 for the same price as a Kubota B7610. For my use, I would have bought the CK20HST over the B7610 too, and saved money too. If I were mowing & transporting, I might have gone with the Kubota. On the other hand, when you grab the fender handle on the B7610, you can feel the fenders bending, and you wonder how it will look in 20yrs. Would have liked the longer warranty though!

At the outset, it was not obvious what all the differences were between these tractors. While the process was agonizing, I have learned a lot, mostly from this board & by pouring over specs & lit from mfr web sites. A LOT of late nights! I was VERY close to buying the B7610, but I am comfortable with this decision. I should have it for the weekend - gotta go check the weather!

Golfgar4 · Mar 2, 2004

Congratulations on your decision! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'm sure that you won't regret it. And I bet the only thing that you'll consider cumbersome, is the time you have to spend away from your tractor! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

We want pictures this weekend too!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

virgil · Mar 2, 2004

have you ever been stuck behind an old man opperating a road grader? He goes so SLOW ! The experanced old man goes so slow for a reason.... He is putting every little pebble and grain of dirt in the correct place the first time.
The young man running the same machine will be going at least twice as fast and really making a mes out of the deal. He worked hard all day and did half as much work!
Morral of the story.... Slow down, get it right the first time. its easier on the equipment and the operator.

Jim_in_Omaha · Mar 2, 2004

If you look through the press releases from the www.kiotitractor.com site it talks about some improvements on the 3054 in 2001.

http://www.kiotitractor.com/newsnshows/np.asp

I just got a used one with 42 hours on it from a private party. So I have like zero experience so far. I've driven it around some and compared to the old stuff I used on Dad's farm it sure does drive and shift easy. The main gear shift can be shifted while moving. After reading about the new XS model, and if I was going to pay a new price I would get the new XS. Being that it is another step of improvement.

I have changed the oil in it. And after giving it a good look over and checking everything out its made very good. Very simular to working on a Toyota, Kia, Nissan in terms of how things are finished and put together.

thx
Jim

KiotiJohn · Mar 2, 2004

( I'm sure that you won't regret it. And I bet the only thing that you'll consider cumbersome, is the time you have to spend away from your tractor! ) Golfgar, I don't think that could have been said any better! TO20Chris, you're going to LOVE that tractor. Congratulations. My brother loves his TO35 as you do your 20. Still going strong after all these years ( the tractor, not my brother /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) John

To20Chris · Mar 6, 2004

Well, I got it! What a nice machine! It rained quite a bit today - so naturally the first thing I did is take it into the back field and get it (almost) stuck! Boy, did I make a mess of that!!1 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Oh well, I'll fix it later - modifiying the drainage in that field is one of the reasons I got it, but it looks like I'll have to wait untill it dries out a bit. Surpisingly, an LK3054 with a Rhino 2408 FEL & 65A BH & filled R4s doesn't float too well! Took me an hour to clean it.

So far I am delighted with it, and am glad I got the Rhino parts, they look very well put together. Two issues that I think are corrected on the XS are the vertical stack, which I'm worried will snag on a branch one day, and the steering arm above the clutch pedal. It's real easy to hook the toe of your boot under that arm if your foot slips on the clutch pedal. But I didn't want to wait for the XS, or pay more, and I'm very happy with the deal I got. I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow!

lablovers · Mar 6, 2004

To20Chris,
Boy am I envious. I probably will not get my 3054 until next week. Unfortnately, I have to travel Tuesday thru Friday. Guess you will know where my mind will be. I hate to say this but today would have been a perfect day to play with ,oops, work with the tractor. It was about 65 degrees and just a perfect day. Spend it inside Arco Arena watching High School playoff basketball. Another great way to spend a day. Saw some great hoop with our both our boys and girls teams winning their section championships. One game for both then the State championships if they win. In a small town, this is a big deal.

Sorry to digress, I am looking forward to pictures, it makes me feel better when I see someone else's tractor and know my day is coming.

Lablovers