LONG Water Line Question

[txdon]

I replaced the 4 way connection with a deeper lip 3 way connection and drove in a 6' T-post to hold the line in place. I have check the water meter 4 times in the last 4 hours and each time the wheel is still

I hereby declare the leak fixed!!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks.

 

[EddieWalker]

Don,

Congratulations!!! That can sure be frustraitinng and I'm glad to hear you found the problem.

I'd mark the place that you put that PVC union on the line. I'm not a big fan of them and it's now the week link in your line. Put a brick or something destictive in the ground so you can find it five or ten years from now.

I'd also replace those palstice PVC ball valves while they are uncovered.

Lastly, I just found out it's a good idea to put severl bags of readi mix at the end of the water main when it ends. The T-Post is probably plenty, but for a few bucks, you'd never have to worry about it ever again.

Thanks for posting the pics, it was fun following along with you on your search, plus all the great suggestions.

Eddie

 

[Egon]

Whew!! Another job done. Congradulations. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As mentioned "Thrust Blocks" may be a good idea for the type of pipe you are using. Thrust blocks are a common part of pipeline construction. Lots of information on the web.

web page

A site with a little information. I would not get too excited by calculations. Common sense works wonders.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jinman]

Great job, Don. Sorry you had to so much time and grief getting the union. I won't try to be too much of a Monday morning quarterback, but it is a good idea to keep at least one repair union for each size pipe you have used in your main. Those late day runs to a store when you are filthy, tired, and mad at yourself are no fun. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Please don't ask me how I know. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[txdon]

<font color="blue"> "I'd also replace those plastic PVC ball valves while they are uncovered."
</font>

Eddie those are new ball valves. What would you suggest they be replace with? The metal valves corrode quickly here is this sand. When I went to turn on a metal valve in the field, that I had not used in a while, the handle crumbled in my hand. I always wonder which is best the brass or PVC valves for underground use. For valves exposed to sunlight I always go metal. I also really don't like the unions. Is there anything better for a splice? The only thing I could think of was to uncover about 20' on each side of the break and try to bow the line enough to slip on a coupling and a cutoff valve. WWED?

Egon, the thrust blocks are a good idea. There was a lot of pressure that broke the back of the box and allowed the first leak. (see attachment)

 

[tommu56]

If cost isn't an option I like the three piece ones it gives you a place to disassemble sections


web page
tom

 

[ronjhall]

Your url has two http's in it. Here is the corrected web page.

 

[EddieWalker]

Don,

The problem with the PVC valves it they don't handle usage very well and they will seize up on you over time. There are all sorts of metals and various materials in every water system. Over time they bild up in all types of valves. PVC is just the worse for this. They are not allowed in most applications and to my knowledge, only home owners use them due to their price.

A good gate valve, or ball valve like shown in the link is made from brass and stainless steel. They cost allot more than the cheapy ones, but 20 years from now it will still work and wont leak on you. Nobody can say that about PVC.

The problem with the union is the same thing, unless the two inch model are different. The ones I've used are tightend by twisting the ends on PVC threads. The ones the water department use are only available from the plumbing suppliers. They are one piece rubber sleeve with a stainless steel band around the entire lenghth. Then bolted together with massive bolts. These run $40 to over $100 or more depending on the size of the pipe.

In my thread about my 6 inch line breaking, they used two hundred dollar clamps to hold mine together.

With your large water main, things are different. Anything an inch or less and I'd just dig it out far enough to bend the pipe and put in a PVC Union and glue it together.

Since it's done, I'd leave it alone, but you really should mark that spot of the repair with a brick or something that will stand out when you go to look for it. A rock might end up looking like all the others 20 years from now.

Eddie

 

[txdon]

Thanks for the info Eddie! Don

 

[3RRL]

Don.
Before you bury those ball valves, consider getting 2 short lengths pf PVC about 4" or 6" diameter and a couple of plastic caps. Put the pipes over the valves and cap it but don't glue the caps on so they are flush with the ground and those will be you "markers" If you needed to, you can pop off the caps and shut off the valves with no digging.

 

[txdon]

3rrl, good idea and they are part of the assembly under the box. (see attachment) The brass/stainless steel is the better shutoff and I might replace them later. there is also another cut-off at the house 10 feet away and at the barn so the PVC usually aways stay open.

The bad news: I now have another leak.

The good news: it is small, and I know where it is.

You were right Eddie those unions are cr$%p.

I went to the local Ace Hardware store and got a different type of union that all the people around here use because they work so good and are easy to install. It is PVC but there are no threads to tighten to hold the connection like the one on there now. It can expand and contract so the glued connections do not break.

I will find out tomorrow if it works.

Jim I did not see your post earlier. Lesson learned. When I connected the backhoe I told Karen that I am either going to find the leak or make one. Since I would have had to go to the store either way I took the chance. The big lesson I learned is if I don't have repair materials on hand do not work past 4 P.M. I could have saved about 40 miles of driving and would not have had to work in the dark.

 

[marks]

Eddie,

You make a good point regarding PVC valves. Initially I used brass valves exclusively, however due to the amount of hydrogen sulfide in the water, it quickly destroyed them. Thus I went to PVC. Yet, SS may be the way to go for future installations.

 

[heehaw]

hey, do you know how to get rid of those prickleypare or whatever ya call it???
heehaw

 

[tommu56]

I think you are thinking polyethelene pipe in rolls that is what we used at my last cabin we used 400' rolls down the mountin from spring and just put rocks over it so hoof's woulden't cut it.

We had over 65psi at cabin so it was aboit 120' feet up to the spring with a 250 gallon oil tank there but we had over 1200 feet of pipe to spring and we let it run all winter to prevent it from freezing. tried all different connectors the wite nylon didnt hold up to the presure the grey plastic ones did work though.


web page


this is the pipe we used fuseing it would have been nice but the tools werent available 30 years ago.

tom

 

[heehaw]

is that the black plasic pipe that comes in rolls? the rumor around here is, folks quit using it because it would develop pin holes in it, because of the soil type??? never had it happen to me, but i used glue type pvc to run the @1000 ft of line i installed in 1986..so far so good..
heehaw

 

[mikim]

What I've discovered over time in my area (just a short drive from Don) is that the brass ball valves corrode to uselessness in just a few years ... but I've got 1- 3/4" pvc valve that has been in the ground for over 20 years and it still works just fine. Surprised me! I have a 4" piece over it sticking straight up so I can put a T wrench down it to turn the valve. I like the brass ones better myself - but not on/in the ground around here.

 

[tommu56]

at work the pipe fitter uses hayward valves for all the plastic most of the time the true uinon type.

web page

most expensive

web page

less expensive type

some have been in plant with the chemicals (slight acidic) and still working fine for 20 years

tom

 

[txdon]

<font color="blue">"...do you know how to get rid of those prickleypare or whatever ya call it???" </font>

Get rid of them??? The (stupid) cows eat them. They have beautiful yellow and orange flowers in the spring. What is there not to love about them? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tommu56, thanks for the links on the heavy duty plastic valves.

Here is a picture 2 days after installing a compression screw type 2" union on a long line. There was absolutely no leak the first day.

 

[txdon]

The local Ace Hardware Man recommended this type of union. As you can tell by the picture it expands. I put a double female on the male end to prepare for the patch.

 

[txdon]

Two things here made the job easier. A hole I dug on the right side of the repair to drain the water when I re-cut the pipe and a 2" PVC pipe cutter.