Little ATV

jwstewar · May 9, 2005

Visited the in-laws this weekend - Mother's Day - gotta visit both sets of parents ya know. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif But my s-i-l as a little 50cc 4 wheeler for her 2 1/2 year old. We are now considering one for our kids. They are 5 & soon to be 4. They both road the little one there of my s-i-l's and loved it. It is a 50cc Cobra 2-stroke. Never heard of the brand. It is electric start with a remote kill switch that can kill the engine from up to 250 ft. away if need be. We are now considering one of these for our kids as the Power Wheels just aren't cutting it as far as battery life and everything goes. What I have found is out of the the "big" names only a few make the small ATVs. Those that do seem to be fairly expensive and don't have some of the features of some of lesser known brands - like the wireless remote. Just visited a dealer locally and they were bad mouthing the wireless. I personnally think it is because the Suzuki/Kawasaki's they had, didn't have the wireless kill switch. On them you have to tie a rope to the back of the 4 wheeler to be able to "pull" the kill switch. I will be watching them ride at all times, but I don't wanna be chasing them as they are riding. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Now here is my question, I know some of you have some of these little ATVs, what brands do you have? Any problems? Where did you buy? Do you have the wireless kill switch, if so, any problems?

Hey this sounds like a familiar theme, Should I buy Kioti or Kubota, JD, or NH. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bczoom · May 9, 2005

Jim,

So many thoughts but let me throw out some of the big ones that come to mind.

First are the riders themselves. My "soon to be 4" year old son is too much of a maniac to be put on an ATV by himself. He'll have to wait awhile. My daughter is a bit more reserved and does very well. I guess the first thing is to assure the kids are ready. Safety equipment is obviously a must.

OK... now let's talk ATV's.
I have 3 Suzuki's for my 2 kids (and only one of the kids can ride.... don't ask). (2) 50cc and (1) 80cc. BTW - the Kawasaki's are now just re-dressed Suzuki's.

The pull cord vs. remote controlled kill switch wasn't that important to me since I took a different approach. Inside our helmets I connected headsets that connect to FRS radios. This is VERY handy. Whether I'm riding with my daughter or I'm hanging around in the yard (not riding), I have constant communication with her. This is for safety (if I think she's getting a bit wild) as well as letting her know general info.

All the Suzuki's have been very reliable. Actually, none have ever needed any service. The 50's don't have electric start and do require several pulls to get going if they've been sitting awhile. Honestly, I'm kind of glad they don't have electric start since I then have full control as to whether they get started. My son gets on the ATV's all the time and I'm afraid that if it had electric start, he'd be able to start it.

For the "off-brands", quality, service, parts and dealer support are obviously a must. The neighbors have some of these machines. To my knowledge there has been very little (or no) mechanical issues but most of the "bells and whistles" didn't last more than a few months. I also noticed the plastic is pretty thin and suseptable to cracks.

I'm pretty sure they all have it now but will mention this in the event you may consider a used unit. DON'T get something without a suspension. The kids have a tendency of literally flying off the machine when they hit something and there's no suspension to buffer the impact.

I can't speak for the off-brands but the name brands are a lot like tractors. They really hold their value. I see them being sold on e-bay for very near new prices.

Gotta run for now. I'll let everyone else throw in their thoughts.

Brian

jwstewar · May 10, 2005

Thanks for the input Brian. I was looking on e-Bay last night and came across one that I really liked except for the coloring. It has all of the features we are looking for - at least that I think we should be looking for. They are 4-strokes with high/low beam headlight & LED brakelight, electric start, semi-automatic, speed governor, full running boards from fender to fender to keep their feet out of the tires/suspension, wireless kill switch, and a pretty decent suspension. It is chain driven vs. one of the others I was looking at was shaft driven. I had some concerns with that one about their feet and such. I also talked to a couple of people (unfortunately, one was the guy selling the one's that I'm now interested in, so I have to discredit him somewhat) but they are having problems with the other brands pulling hills. Do OK on flat ground, but the clutch slips and it won't pull a hill - so that scared me off the shaft driven one. I've noticed most of these "off" brands though don't have brakes on the front. I know that can be a good and bad thing all at the same time. One way I wish they did - faster stops, but at the same time I know if you catch front brakes too hard, you flip pretty easily - especially going down a hill.

Here is one we are looking at: ATV We didn't want the camo ones, so he is supposed to see if he can find us a couple of solid color ones and give us a call back. If he can find these, looks like we might buy a couple of these. We can get 2 of them for $4 more than her sister paid for one of what I consider similar quality to these. Was having a hard time justifying $2000+ for a Suzuki or Polaris which is what our local dealers were asking. For the price difference I can buy a few parts and do some repairs if need be.

bczoom · May 10, 2005

Jim,

That looks like a nice little ATV. I reviewed the seller's feedback and everyone seems happy with it. If you do get it, let us know what you think.

Brian

Tractors4u · May 10, 2005

Take a look at the Kasea ATVs. They have established dealer networks and quality wise are on par with the major brands. You could kind of think of them as the Kioti or Mahindra of the ATV world. They are not going to be as inexpensive as the Ebay ATV's but you might have better support. We have a Kasea Outback 90 we bought in January.

jwstewar · May 10, 2005

Those look like nice little machines. I haven't run across them in my searching. I sent them a note, we'll see if a dealer is close enough to contact me. We are still looking around at others too. Nice thing about the "cheap" ones, is we might do two - no fighting. If we go up in $, will probably only do one.

bczoom · May 10, 2005

( Nice thing about the "cheap" ones, is we might do two - no fighting.)

Exactly why I have 3 kids quads. I actually have a spare 50cc for the neighbor's boy once he gets old enough (same age as my son) since my daughter has already moved up to the 80cc. Shhhhh. Unless you want to buy it...

jwstewar · May 10, 2005

Sure, now you offer /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Believe it or not, I just ordered a red and a blue pair of these from the guy:

Hunter ATV It looks like it is pretty much the same ATV that I've been looking at and the guy had the colors we wanted in stock. I may have made a mistake, but we didn't go through eBay - but we still used a credit card so I'm hoping that will protect us - well actually I'm hoping I don't need to worry about anything like that. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif He sold us these for $600 each with $130 S&H. Price was more than the other, but shipping was less. Cost ended up being about the same. This is also a full automatic vs. the semi-automatic. It is supposed to ship Friday or Monday. I'm as probably as excited as the kids about them showing up.

Now, I've just got to find a secure place to store these things as I'm sure they would grow legs rather quickly. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

bczoom · May 10, 2005

Jim,

I would have honestly struggled to sell 1 of the Suzuki's at the price you just paid for 2 machines. The kids will be happy you got 2 of them. Now go get some helmets!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Actually, if you haven't gotten helmets already, they have them now for kids where they can grow with the kid. When it gets too small, you just buy a new insert that's got a little less padding.

For securing I don't know what kind of setup you have for storage but a cable run through them and locked to an immovable object may help.

In OH, do you need to get them registered/titled/insured? (PA requires all /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif).

Brian

jwstewar · May 10, 2005

I'll eventually have the garage for storage, but right now w/o a floor and no door for the tractor entrance it isn't real secure. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif But I do have an 8x16 & a 12x16 shed that I'll have to rearrange and make room. I think I can do it, but it might be one in one shed and one in the other. I still might do the cable thing through the wheels even though if they broke in the shed, they probably could cut the cable as well, but it might slow them down a little bit more - of course I could probably pile enough stuff in front of them so that they could never find them /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif of course neither could we. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I figure for the price we paid for the both of them, I can do a few repairs, heck if I have to, I can buy a third one and still be ahead dollar wise.

Thanks for the comments about the helmets I wasn't aware of the "growing" kind. We'll keep an eye out for them. I at least one to take them in and let them try them on. Might pay a little more, but at least it'll fit correctly. I'll skimp on the ATV itself, but not when it comes to protection their little noggins. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

As far as registering or anything, that is a no. I will call and get them listed on the homeowner's policy though in case something would happen to one of the sheds or they do grow legs.

bczoom · May 10, 2005

The helmets with the variable sizing isn't too expensive. I think I paid about $70 for the helmet with 1 lining and each new lining is about $20.

Not sure if you can put that size machine on your homeowners. It can be listed if it's to "maintain the resident premises". Don't know if you can say those are for yard work. Give it a try. If not, ATV policies are cheap.

Brian

RTV4Us · May 10, 2005

Hello everyone,

Concerning ATV's and homeowners insurance in general:

You probably have liability coverage for your ATV, ONLY ON YOUR OWN PREMISE.

You probably DON"T HAVE PHYSICAL DAMAGE ( fire, theft, etc.) ANYWHERE ON YOUR homeowners policy.

As for the "servicing the residence premise" condition, that is very difficult to meet. Like Brian (bczoom) said, ATV policies are cheap. Don't rely on your homeowners policy and find out too late you don't have the coverage you assumed you had.

The gray area is the status of "Utility" categories such as the RTV, Rhino, Ranger, etc. They are advertised and sold as utility/work vehicles, but we all like to have fun on them too. I'm sure the insurance companies want to consider them as ATV's and exclude them, but using them and treating them like tractors would make a strong argument they are "used to service the premise". ( I put a "Slow Moving Vehicle" triangle on the back of my RTV screen to help with the tractor argument....

Tact · May 10, 2005

What age range are the 50cc intended for? I have a 7 year old and would imagine the 70cc are a little strong for his age. Any idea for the 50cc's?

jwstewar · May 10, 2005

Basically any of the "kid" ATVs <90 are designed for age 6 & up. What I like about most of them that I've looked at, they have a governor on them to limit them to any speed clear down to 5 MPH. I'm actually buying the pair of 70s for my kids that are 4 & 5 years old.

bczoom · May 11, 2005

RTV4Us,

First, welcome to TBN!!

OK, on the insurance. Been working with my agent closely for a couple years on ATV's and UTV's.

I'll qualify what I know about insurance on a couple points.
1. If your state requires the vehicle to be registered, it is no longer covered in any fashion under the homeowners.
2. If no registration is required, steps "should" be able to be taken to have the ATV/UTV listed on the homeowners which will cover it for both liability as well as physical damage.

That said, if you do opt to try to get an ATV/UTV listed under your homeowners (basically having it get treated similar to a tractor) it will need to be:
1. Listed/scheduled on the policy. (Tractors don't need to be scheduled).
2. Be a vehicle of a type that could be used "to maintain the resident premises". Racing or kids ATV's probably wouldn't apply. Most any UTV could apply.

Now, if you take it off the premises you're pretty much on your own. Liability "may" still be in effect but you'll most likely loose any comprehensive (physical) coverage.

I don't have a choice anymore since PA requires title, registration and insurance on all ATV/UTV's but I have insured all my ATV/UTV's. In general, a decent policy per vehicle can be had for $40-$150/year depending on how much liability and whether you want collision/comp included. I gripe a lot about this due to the number of vehicles I have to insure. I think it suc*s that I have to put a license plate and stuff on my kids ATVs.

BTW - Good luck on getting the RTV insured. I haven't found an insurance company yet that has the RTV listed where an agent can select it to create a policy. I think mine is listed as "other" in every category.

Brian

bczoom · May 11, 2005

( What age range are the 50cc intended for? I have a 7 year old and would imagine the 70cc are a little strong for his age. Any idea for the 50cc's? )

Tact,
To my knowledge...
50cc are intended for ages 6-12.
70cc and up varies my manufacturer. Jim - did it say on yours what the age range is? On my Suzuki 80cc it's stamped as ages 12 and up.
My daughter is 7 and has switched from the 50 to the 80cc this year. I'll qualify her capability as to say that she has a couple years on the 50cc to get ready (needed to learn braking, leaning...)
Now, all of these kids machines do have some sort of governor or throttle adjustment for speed. I haven't put the 80cc on a speedo but I'd guess it can easily do more than 30 (it outruns the RTV very easily). I have it set to a max of about 20mph for my daughter.

I did find out that you should not take your child to the dealer on the day you purchase. I got my daugher's ATV when she was 5. While at the dealer, she was sitting on the machine. During the conversation, the owner (also the salesman I got that day) asked her how old she was. Being a kid, of course she said her age. He wouldn't sell it to me since she wasn't 6. I returned without her, got a different salesman and when the question arose again, I said 6.

Brian

Ozarker · May 11, 2005

I recently bought a Jag 50cc for my grandson. Got it from my local Polaris dealer. It has all the safety feature such as throttle limit screw and remote engine kill and it has a 4 cycle engine.

Of course a week later, after watching him and the neighbor kids having fun, I bought myself a new Polaris Magnum 330 4X4. I might even get to ride it someday if I can get my wife off it.

buckle97 · May 11, 2005

I might even get to ride it someday if I can get my wife off it. 

I can sympathize with you. My wife puts many more miles on MY /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif four wheeler than I do.

Lawrence

jwstewar · May 11, 2005

( Jim - did it say on yours what the age range is? )

The guy really didn't say, other than it should hold them until probably 11 or 12. He also said his kids 6 & 9 were riding the same ATV I was buying.

( did find out that you should not take your child to the dealer on the day you purchase. I got my daugher's ATV when she was 5. While at the dealer, she was sitting on the machine. During the conversation, the owner (also the salesman I got that day) asked her how old she was. Being a kid, of course she said her age. He wouldn't sell it to me since she wasn't 6. I returned without her, got a different salesman and when the question arose again, I said 6.
)
I found this at one of the local places that I went to. Didn't want to sell me one because she was only 5. I said that she would be 6 soon, so I was still interested. Of course, they were also trying to discount the wireless kill switch. I said that is what I wanted and I was going to buy a machine that had that. Looked at them and said, "So, you can't me. I'll be leaving now." and I walked out. I hate when I know what I want and they try to talk me into something else because that is what they have. Now if I go in and I'm unsure what I want or need (very rarely happens) I want to here their advice.

RTV4Us · May 11, 2005

Brian,

Just to clarify, I am an insurance agent (in PA), a CIC (Certified Insurance Counselor) to boot. Of the 6 insurance companies we represent that write homeowners insurance, NONE will add ATV's onto the HO policy. Only exception to that is that one company will add both liability and physical damage coverage onto a FARMOWNER policy. However, that same company will not add them to a homeowners policy. Next time I get a chance at the office to run down the RTV issue, I'll do some additional research and see what answers I get back from some of the company underwriters. There are more differences than ever before in the policy language from one company to another as the industry struggles with these issues. You can not go by anyones word, the policy is a contract between the insurance company and the policy holder. The big problem is trying to decide how 12 of our peers will interpret the policy language, when we are in court.......

As for title and registration, did you get a title for the RTV? I did not, nor did the dealer give me any registration paperwork, which I believe is required when selling an ATV. I don't have any paperwork which would make me think I need to treat the RTV any different than I do my JD 855 as far as insurance and registration goes. From a pure technical standpoint, I don't believe I can legally drive my JD on public highways. I do, and I've been passed by lots of State Police while doing it. My guess is that if I'm putting up the road in my RTV with the spray rig in the back, they'll beep and wave as they go by.... Only time will tell.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

My boys started on a Suzuki 50 when they were 2 & 3 years old. Ran that for a few years, and got a Suzuki 80 for them to fight over. Eventually it got harder to have fun places to ride, so we sold them all. Now that they are both out of college, it seems like such a long time ago......