linear actuator to run grapple???????

[wftree]

If I could find a 12 vold actuator of the right size and design this is my thought.

Mount a switch to my FEL handle then use the actuator to move the handles for my rear remote hydraulic hook up. For much less than the WR long kit I think I could make this work. I am not smart enough to find such an actuator or know if a self centering actuator actually exists.

Any thoughts

 

[J_J]

Perhaps somewhere on this page you will find what you want.

Surplus Center

 

[PILOON]

If I could find a 12 vold actuator of the right size and design this is my thought.

Mount a switch to my FEL handle then use the actuator to move the handles for my rear remote hydraulic hook up. For much less than the WR long kit I think I could make this work. I am not smart enough to find such an actuator or know if a self centering actuator actually exists.

Any thoughts

If you can get your hands on the actuator that the used on the early large satellite dishes you would have what you need.
While actually 24 volts, the run well on 12, just a bit slower.
In fact you have just given me an idea of how to use the one I have.

 

[IslandTractor]

There is a good reason that 99.9% of grapples are controlled by hydraulics rather than by mechanical or electrical devices. Bite the bullet and get a set of rear remotes to control the grapple (cheap) or get one of the fancy diverter valve kits.

 

[k0ua]

Island I understand he already has the rear remotes, but maybe they are not real handy to actuate, so he wants to put a linear actuator to push/pull the lever electrically with a button on the joystick control . However I can tell you that you are going to be disappointed with the speed of the old satellite controller. it is pretty slow. Maybe a good solenoid with a long throw would work, but I doubt it is going to give you the level of control you want.

James K0UA

 

[wftree]

Island I understand he already has the rear remotes, but maybe they are not real handy to actuate, so he wants to put a linear actuator to push/pull the lever electrically with a button on the joystick control . However I can tell you that you are going to be disappointed with the speed of the old satellite controller. it is pretty slow. Maybe a good solenoid with a long throw would work, but I doubt it is going to give you the level of control you want.

James K0UA

This is exactly what I want to do. Surplus center got back to me with a controller and a actuator which might work. Now all I need is a self centering triple pole triple throw TPTT switch.

Here is what Surplus center had to offer:

"You might try 5-1577-series with a dpdt switch 11-3259 this will not center to neutral . If you want a centering mode you will need to order 5-1577-c control for that."

 

[k0ua]

Let us know how you make out.

James K0UA

 

[IslandTractor]

Island I understand he already has the rear remotes, but maybe they are not real handy to actuate, so he wants to put a linear actuator to push/pull the lever electrically with a button on the joystick control . However I can tell you that you are going to be disappointed with the speed of the old satellite controller. it is pretty slow. Maybe a good solenoid with a long throw would work, but I doubt it is going to give you the level of control you want.

James K0UA

I just reread the original post more carefully. Now I am really confused.

Isn't the rear remote lever mounted within easy reach of the FEL joystick? I've never seen a Kubota 4310 but find it hard to imagine they put the lever in an inaccessible spot. On my CK20 I had to reach slightly backwards to reach the remote lever to operate the grapple but it was second nature within a few hours.

If the current valve is tricky to use why not replace it rather than attempting a complicated solution? How about a straight mechanical linkage/extension instead?

 

[I Stand Alone]

The FEL control is on the right side just forward of the steering wheel. The rear remote controls are on the right side of the seat. I would not be able to hang onto the FEL control and run the grapple at the same time.



I it looking more like spending the 800 for the WR Long electric over hydraulic is the best way to go. I think for 250 I could set up an electric actuator but I am sure it would be problematic.

I Stand Alone

 

[IslandTractor]

The FEL control is on the right side just forward of the steering wheel. The rear remote controls are on the right side of the seat. I would not be able to hang onto the FEL control and run the grapple at the same time.

No reason to operate the grapple and FEL at the same time. Your setup is almost exactly what it is like operating 4 on the floor. Everyone who uses rear remotes has to let go of the FEL control to operate the grapple. Really works fine. It might seem like you'd like to do FEL and grapple simultaneously but there really is almost never a circumstance when that happens.

Seriously, try the grapple with just the rear remote lever manually for four hours and it will be very natural. You can always build your electromechanical device later.

 

[Mahindra One]

I hope this thread isn't dead yet. I just read tonight and think I understand the objective of the original post. That being: using the 3 pt. hydraulics for operation of a grapple instead of adding a new set of hydraulics. If this is correct, it could make the difference in my getting a grapple or not. In it's simplest form, can someone explain how this would work and what would be needed.
Thanks

 

[Willl]

MO, in my op only, if you have a FEL, the easiest way is with a diverter.

 

[IslandTractor]

I hope this thread isn't dead yet. I just read tonight and think I understand the objective of the original post. That being: using the 3 pt. hydraulics for operation of a grapple instead of adding a new set of hydraulics. If this is correct, it could make the difference in my getting a grapple or not. In it's simplest form, can someone explain how this would work and what would be needed.
Thanks

Well, the thread is pretty much dead and I haven't reread it completely but the title implies an electric actuator to move the grapple arm. That is possible but not common. What I think you are interested in is using the tractor rear remotes to control a grapple. That works fine. Been there done that. It is also possible to tap into the FEL hydraulics with a diverter valve and even a separate electric over hydraulic valve system. All of these methods work. Using existing rear remotes is by far the least expensive way to go about controlling a grapple. You don't mention if you already have at least one set of rear remotes. If you do you can set up a pair of hydraulic lines and quick connects for about $100-150. Maybe less if you buy the stuff via internet discount or more if you go to a local hydraulic shop. Bottom line though is that you need to have the rear remotes. If you don't then it will cost you about $300 in parts plus a half day of labor or maybe $600 to have a dealer install the rear remote. It only costs a little more to have two sets installed and that is IMO worth it as you can then use the grapple and leave a hydraulic topping lift set up.

I've used both rear remotes and a diverter valve. I actually prefer the rear remote. Just as natural as shifting a four on the floor transmission.

Diverter valve kits from established companies like WRLong cost about $600-700 and can be user installed or cost maybe two hours labor at a tractor dealership. Electric over hydraulic setups cost a couple hundred more than diverter valves.

To further educate yourself, search on rear remotes, grapple and diverter valve here on TBN. Lots of discussions and opinions.

Edit: it looks like you have a Mahindra 4025. A rear remote is an added option on that tractor so if you didn't get one installed originally the dealer certainly has a kit to do it. Again, if it were mine and I needed to install a set of remotes, I'd do two sets at the same time. Cheap money for the upgrade and lots of potential uses.

 

[jinman]

Edit: it looks like you have a Mahindra 4025. A rear remote is an added option on that tractor so if you didn't get one installed originally the dealer certainly has a kit to do it. Again, if it were mine and I needed to install a set of remotes, I'd do two sets at the same time. Cheap money for the upgrade and lots of potential uses.

I couldn't agree more. The factory remotes will raise the value of the tractor and will have support from any Mahindra dealer. That would certainly be my first choice.

 

[J_J]

If you want a one handed operation, then I would get the diverter/selector valve like this.

Surplus Center - SAE 8 6 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-2

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-5117-A.pdf

Once installed and wired up, with no power applied the curl circuit works normally. When you want grapple , turn switch on, and the grapple will work using the curl levers.

If you have remotes and they are on the same side as the FEL valve, it will take two hands to operate.

The the 3ed function valve is installed in series with the hyd flow and pushing the up button, the grapple opens, and pushing the down button, the grapple closes. With the 3ed function valve, you need a sub plate for a single station. like this

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE

Surplus Center - 1 STATION DO3 SUBPLATE OPEN CENTER

All ports on this subplate can handle high pressure.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you have remotes and they are on the same side as the FEL valve, it will take two hands to operate..

Not sure what you mean. One hand does fine. Use the FEL joystick to position the grapple and when you are ready to clamp you just drop your hand to the remote lever. Works just like dropping your hand from a car steering wheel to the shifter. Becomes automatic with muscle memory in a day or so.

 

[k0ua]

If you want a one handed operation, then I would get the diverter/selector valve like this.

Surplus Center - SAE 8 6 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-2

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-5117-A.pdf

Once installed and wired up, with no power applied the curl circuit works normally. When you want grapple , turn switch on, and the grapple will work using the curl levers.

If you have remotes and they are on the same side as the FEL valve, it will take two hands to operate.

The the 3ed function valve is installed in series with the hyd flow and pushing the up button, the grapple opens, and pushing the down button, the grapple closes. With the 3ed function valve, you need a sub plate for a single station. like this

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE

Surplus Center - 1 STATION DO3 SUBPLATE OPEN CENTER

All ports on this subplate can handle high pressure.

JJ on the 3rd function valve, the wiring bugs me. I don't understand how to hook up the Hirschman . I mentions not using the ground connector and +12 volts pin and a -12Volt Pin.. well I know all about + and - 12 volt supplys like in the power supply of your computer, and the are + and - with respect to a ground reference.. AND there is no -12 volt supply available on any tractor or any other vehicle I know of. + and - 5v and 12V supplies are common supplys for digital IC's. but not Solenoids.. I know they did not mean -12Volts for a solenoid, but I assume they meant to reverse the polarity of the applied voltage? or something.. there was no wireing diagram showing the battery supply and switches and the solenoid/valves. Can you or anyone shed some light on this? I normally understand electrical/electronic things very well, having worked in this industry for many years, but this negative 12 volt thing is throwing me. Perhaps I am reading too much into it.

James K0UA

 

[J_J]

You have a + post on the battery and a - post on the battery, therefore -12v, and +12v.

Negative post is normally ground .

 

[k0ua]

You have a + post on the battery and a - post on the battery, therefore -12v, and +12v.

Negative post is normally ground .

Well Ok.. I am sure that is what they meant.. Now on to the second part. there was no application diagram. there are 2 (Hirschman)electrical connectors on the valve, why? and if you apply - and + as shown to connector 1 what happens to the valve ? what happens to the valve if you apply + and - as shown at the same time. to connector 2? Do you just apply + and - to one connector at a time for each function? (extend/retract) what I am getting at is to make the grapple cylinder extend or retract what voltage should be applied to what connector to make the valves switch the path of the fluid flow out to the extend and retract work ports thru the subplate? This is where I am confused. If they had included a diagram I think I would be ok. I am guessing you apply voltage to one connector and it operates one of the valves to send flow to the work port that is controlled by that electrical connector, and the other valve remains blocked. So lets call this the extend work port on the subplate. Then if you remove that voltage, then it snaps shut by itself and flow continues on to the power beyond input port on the tractor block to serve the 3pt. Then if you apply voltage to the other connector it operates the other valve, lets call it the retract work port, and when you release its voltage, the valve snaps shut and flow continues thru the subplate out to the 3pt. You would never apply voltage to both at the same time. Am I right or am I full of it? Thanks for the help Oh, and by the way, I spent hours looking at JIC ORB and NPT adaptors and hoses.. They say they recommend JIC and ORB fittings not NPT. Then why do a lot of guys use NPT? What say you? All of this is confusing as heck for a beginner, but I am learning.

James K0UA

 

[J_J]

You are mostly right.

If you use a three position momentary switch with the center position off. ON-off-on Terminals 1-2-3

Connecting points

Grapple Open solenoid wire to terminal 1.

+12v to center terminal.

Grapple Close solenoid wire2 to terminal 3.

Both ground to ground.

The +12v should come from the ign switch with a fuse to the center terminal 2 on the switch.

Spring center of the switch= no grapple grapple operation.

You do realize that using the 3ed function valve you are applying full GPM's to the grapple cyl and it could be very fast.

You probably should run 1/4 hose to the grapple and maybe add a needle valve to vary the GPM flow rate to suit your needs.

Grapple will probably be in the position you left it in.

Selecting position 1, grapple opens.

Selecting position 2, grapple closes.

No grapple in spring center.