Let's talk third function on the cheap...

   / Let's talk third function on the cheap... #11  
JDA,
Yes you can use your rear remotes to operate the grapple.


3rd function:
If you use a manually operated valve you can feather the operation of that function. If you use a solenoid operated valve they are full open or full closed no feathering of speed. If speed or control of the third function is important then you should use a manual lever operated valve. If just going full stroke on a function then electric work just fine.
 
   / Let's talk third function on the cheap...
  • Thread Starter
#12  
I'VE PULLED A FEW WRENCHES IN MY TIME, BUT NOT MUCH ON HYDRAULICS. I'M RETIRED AN D HAVE ALL DAY TO GET THINGS DONE --OR NOT. SO WHY CAN'T I JUST RUN A LONG LINE FROM MY GRAPPLE---WHICH I DON'T HAVE YET--TO A REAR REMOTE AND USE THT VALVE. I ALSO DON'T HAVE REAR REMOTES YET. THAT WILL BE MY PROJECT NEXT WINTER. MY 1946 JD CAME WITH REAR REMOTE, MY KIOTI DIDN'T.

On my last Kubota it had a rear remote, I installed Tee's with a rear facing set of quick connects and then hoses ran down under the foot pan then along the loader to another set of quick connects for the thumb so I could run the rear hydraulic top link or the front thumb, it worked pretty good. I believe the hoses going to the front were 14' long!
 
   / Let's talk third function on the cheap... #13  
Thanks for the input eric.
Does this valve look like it will be OK?
D3 hydraulic directional control solenoid valve Tandem center 12VDC | eBay

Tandem valve is what you want. In the neutral position the work ports should be blocked and the P port lead to T.

You need to make sure the T port on that is rated for your system pressure. Nothing comes up in a search on the mfg part number. The seller has only an 80% rating.

I understand wanting to save $$ but if it was me I'd spend more for one with a manufacturer name and a data sheet, from a reputable seller.
 
   / Let's talk third function on the cheap... #14  
THANKS OLDNSLO & DAVE--- THATS WHAT I WANT TO DO. I TRIED TO ORDER A REAR REMOTE KIT FROM KIOTI, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE THEM ANYMORE FOR MY UNIT. I GUESS I'LL HAVE TO WORK WITH A HYD. SUPPLIER OR A DEALER TO GET THE PARTS I NEED. I THINK I WANT TWO REMOTES WITH FLOAT ON BOTH. WHEN I LOOK AT VALVES IN CATALOGS--NT--THEY DON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE VALVE FUNCTION. ANY SUGGESTIONS?
 
   / Let's talk third function on the cheap... #15  
JDA,

3rd function:
If you use a manually operated valve you can feather the operation of that function. If you use a solenoid operated valve they are full open or full closed no feathering of speed. If speed or control of the third function is important then you should use a manual lever operated valve. If just going full stroke on a function then electric work just fine.


That's a good point. With my dual lid grapple the lids move slow enough that I never feather the manual valve. I hold it down until I see the appropriate amount of crushing or the lids stop moving. A single lid would move twice as fast (assuming the same cylinder size).
 
   / Let's talk third function on the cheap... #16  
I may simply be confused so feel free to correct me if so.

If you use an electronic activated diverter valve you will continue to use your curl function valve on the FEL. Push the button and the curl function is diverted to the 3rd function couplers. Release the button and the curl function goes back to normal operation.

Downside, can't use curl and 3rd function at the same time. But many members here have that system and learn quickly to push/release, push/release the button to get the functions they want.

Upside, no need to buy a more expensive valve and/or worry about PB, etc. I've even saw them with a foot operated button on the floorboard of the tractor if you have no other use for your left foot. I prefer a joystick handle with a button for 3rd function.

New Holland even puts their diverter on the front crossbar of the FEL frame. Shorter hoses are used. Electrical plug-in is located by the hydraulic couplers. Electrical cable runs forward to diverter. Very simple system. Probably as cheap as you can build.

I would never shop for the cheapest valve.
 
   / Let's talk third function on the cheap... #17  
Richard, if you're confused then so am I - (as in, I agree with all you wrote) - when I get back to finishing my hydraulic mods and QA loader mods, this is what'll be mounted ala your New Holland comment
DSCN1319.JPG DSCN1320.JPG DSCN1321.JPG

Neither of my non-backhoe tractors have FEL's, right now the Long has just a single remote (toplink at the moment) and the Allis has a mechanical diverter for its single remote, currently used as TnT. Soon as I get the ripper cylinder rebuilt on the Gannon box I'm gonna want a "3rd function" :laughing: so I'll replace the mechanical diverter with a PAIR of these

6.6 GPM 12 Volt DC Double Selector Valve DFE:D | Selector Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Still to be ordered - there's nothing on that rig that needs speed (those valves are SAE 4), plus it's hard to beat the price - they're stackable, so I'll fab up a plate similar to the other pics. The ones in the pics (for the 580B) will be controlled with a Scorpion handle; 1 trigger switch and 2 push buttons, it'll replace the knob on the loader joystick. Haven't got around to a scheme for control of the new diverters yet.

I had bought a 4-valve stack for the Allis (used for Gannon, 6' tiller, etc) but decided to steal that for the 580B (got a few small cylinders and plans for articulated brush cutter, + a thumb)

Warning for those new to hydraulics - do NOT think those cheaper diverters are a cheaper option if you do NOT wanna limit something ELSE's flow; the function you "borrow" has to go THROUGH the diverter to do its original "thang", so you do NOT want a lower flow diverter than the other valves on your tractor... Steve
 
   / Let's talk third function on the cheap... #20  
The solenoid diverter valves usually cost a little more than the 3rd function valves, though if you get a subplate 3rd function it'll be a wash. Depending on where you put the diverter the hoses can be shorter, which lowers the cost a little. But between the valve, switch and wiring, hoses and fittings, the costs are roughly the same.

The major difference is how the two are operated. With the diverter you have to hold the button and move the joystick sideways. With the 3rd function you hold the up or down button to open/close the grapple. People may find one or the other more ergonomic or logical.

Depending on your loader valve you may be able to open/close the grapple while curling the loader with a 3rd function. My Branson's loader valve sends everything out the tank port when it's being operated so it's not going to happen for me. Also depending on the valve you may be able to open/close while moving the loader up or down with the diverter. Many loader valves do that, but not all of them.

Another consideration is that many loader valves have regen on the dump circuit, and supposedly that does not play well with a diverter though I don't know the details.
 
 
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