Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Skagit]

"It is not a kubota flail shredder, it may be a Maschio, Del Morino
or Inobrece flail shredder built and sold in Europe."

And .. you know that how?

"The boom mounted orchard and vineyard flail shredders have the
European Union CEMA mandated slow moving implement road
warning placards on the rear of the shredder. "

The brochure .. is from Kubota Canada.

I asked if anyone had any experience with theses machines.

He's a YouTube expert, his dad had a tow behind flail mower or something IIRC...

 

[Fallon]

"It is not a kubota flail shredder, it may be a Maschio, Del Morino
or Inobrece flail shredder built and sold in Europe."

And .. you know that how?

"The boom mounted orchard and vineyard flail shredders have the
European Union CEMA mandated slow moving implement road
warning placards on the rear of the shredder. "

The brochure .. is from Kubota Canada.

I asked if anyone had any experience with theses machines.

Land Pride made flails last i checked a year or 2 ago & Kubota bought Land Pride. So there is a good chance it's a Land Pride flail.

 

[leonz]

Before Kubota bought out Landpride, the Land Pride Company was importing the Maschio Brand of flail mowers
that were painted in Land Pride colors. After the takeover they no longer purchased and imported the Maschio
brand of flail mowers and other implements.

 

[leonz]

He's a YouTube expert, his dad had a tow behind flail mower or something IIRC...

I have used and owned flail mowers for over four decades andI am not sure that makes me an expert about them.
My father had a Ford Jubilee that he used with a JD25A finish flail mower and two Mathews Company Lawn Genie Pickup Flail Mowers.
He traded in the smaller 36" Lawn Genie Pickup mower for a 48" Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower.
I purchased the 36" Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower from the same dealer and later traded it in towards the purchase of a Wheel Horse 244 Hydro Lawn Tractor.
I inherited his 48" inch cut Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower and I use it as needed.

 

[Beeenvenue]

No wonder it failed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roller bearings are ment to be filled completely with grease; oil lubricated bearings are
splash with the recommended oil for lubrication.

Whoever wrote that was terribly mistaken/miss-informed about greased high speed roller bearings and its cost you a flail mower.

I would start with a simple letter asking for a complete refund of your purchase and sending pictures as well.

If that does not work contacting the attorney general of the state this company does business in is the next step by detailing
what you have here, sending pictures etc., and then having the bearing failure which has cost you a flail mower and that you are seeking a full refund as the flail mower failed because of thier poorly written manual which you used to maintain it.

.

I’m sorry but what degree did you get and what metallurgical and machinery specialty do you have to say this?

First 540 or even 2000 rpm is considered a low speed application for bearings

Second the manual generally speaking is absolutely correct. Depending on design clearances and specific bearing tolerances more grease can definitely work against reliability. It is not uncommon in general industry, where bearings at this speed carry far greater loads, to only need grease every 8000 hours. In that case overgreasing (too much or too often) can and will result in overheating, premature grease breakdown, and bearing failure.

It may be that the OEM supplied a poor quality bearing or simply had a defective assembly. That does not mean the manual is incorrect based on anecdotal evidence from 40 years ago. You simply cannot say their manual or engineering is wrong based on a single case when (to my knowledge) you have not done a full inspection of the failed unit. And recommending against an OEM in a public forum is irresponsible ; hopefully no one who reads your post will follow your specific advice.

Based on that reasoning - I guess adding lead to the gas for my car will make it run better…it did in 1960!

It is obvious you have a huge wealth of knowledge and expertise around flail mowers. That does not make you an expert on all aspects of modern equipment, so please consider that when you post because so many (including me) do look to you for that advice.

 

[LouNY]

Quite a difference in manuals;
mine;
3-5 pumps every 8 hours.

and another one of mine;
grease daily before use.

 

[leonz]

This SKF bearing bible is an excellent guide for maintenance of bearings and determining why a bearing failed.
It is too large to upload to the forum so I am leaving a link for it.
My previous repair and rebuilding experience with surface and underground mining machinery and crop harvesting
equipment before that taught me a great deal.



www.skf.com/binaries/pub12/Images/0901d1968064c148-Bearing-failures---14219_2-EN_tcm_12-297619.pdf

 

[Beeenvenue]

This SKF bearing bible is an excellent guide for maintenance of bearings and determining why a bearing failed.
It is too large to upload to the forum so I am leaving a link for it.
My previous repair and rebuilding experience with surface and underground mining machinery and crop harvesting
equipment before that taught me a great deal.



www.skf.com/binaries/pub12/Images/0901d1968064c148-Bearing-failures---14219_2-EN_tcm_12-297619.pdf

An excellent reference - thanks for providing!

You will note that insufficient lubrication is only one of many many issues that could result in bearing failure. Using other skf references, the interval for relubrication for their modern roller and spherical roller bearings could extend into several thousands of hours. Shorter intervals are indicated based on any number of application and usage factors which are “based on application engineering principles”; i.e the OEM designer. 500 hours is in no way out of the question. But as the skf manual you linked clearly shows, faulty factory initial greasing, alignment, poor quality grease, final machinery misalignment, etc each could have resulted in premature bearing failures (as could excessive heat from overgreasing)

My comments are based on current mechanical, maintenance, and reliability engineering experience with large number of small and large rotating machines. The past 25 years have seen huge changes in what had been a relatively static field (mechanical machinery design) which have in many cases made past practices outdated or even deleterious.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

I’m sorry but what degree did you get and what metallurgical and machinery specialty do you have to say this?

First 540 or even 2000 rpm is considered a low speed application for bearings

Second the manual generally speaking is absolutely correct. Depending on design clearances and specific bearing tolerances more grease can definitely work against reliability. It is not uncommon in general industry, where bearings at this speed carry far greater loads, to only need grease every 8000 hours. In that case overgreasing (too much or too often) can and will result in overheating, premature grease breakdown, and bearing failure.

It may be that the OEM supplied a poor quality bearing or simply had a defective assembly. That does not mean the manual is incorrect based on anecdotal evidence from 40 years ago. You simply cannot say their manual or engineering is wrong based on a single case when (to my knowledge) you have not done a full inspection of the failed unit. And recommending against an OEM in a public forum is irresponsible ; hopefully no one who reads your post will follow your specific advice.

Based on that reasoning - I guess adding lead to the gas for my car will make it run better…it did in 1960!

It is obvious you have a huge wealth of knowledge and expertise around flail mowers. That does not make you an expert on all aspects of modern equipment, so please consider that when you post because so many (including me) do look to you for that advice.

This is very true. I design machines in the food industry (specifically meat forming equipment). We have bearings that go for 800 hours of run time between greasing. The machines are in wet environments and food grade grease sucks compared to regular grease. Every day a cleaning crew comes in to the cold (~40°F) plant and sprays hot water all over the machine to clean it (usually getting it into areas it doesn't belong). Every inch of the machine is covered in water, whether from direct spray or condensation. Yet the bearings last with greasing them only every 800 hours. 500 hour grease interval on a sealed bearing on a flail mower is not unreasonable.

Over greasing can cause a seal to come loose. At that point you are inviting anything and everything into your bearings to destroy them. Bearing materials and greases have come a long way in recent years giving extended life to both. I would personally stick to the 250-hour grease schedule as mowing is going to generally be either dusty or wet. Either the grass is dry and dusty or its green and wet. My Alamo mower says to grease every 8 hours of use, but it is older and it appears to have shielded bearings instead of sealed.

A number of things could have caused this bearing to fail. To me it more looks like the shaft wasn't fully in the bearing. It was only holding on by a little bit causing excess pressure on the inner race where it is not supported by the balls. The other possibility is that bearing race missed heat-treat day, as typically when bearings fail the race is still in a recognizable shape. Or it could be an unfortunate combination of both. I don't see excessive heat on either the bearing or the shaft indicating the bearing seized up, and it looks like the balls are still there as well as what appears to be the rubber seal. I would rule this a manufacturing defect, not a lack of greasing.

The manufacturer of the machine has to warranty the machine. If they didn't honestly feel that the greasing interval was correct, would they suggest it? If machines fail due to under-greasing per their manual they are on the line for expensive parts. If they are offering to replace all the components, they are confident that it wasn't due to you not greasing it, but rather a manufacturing defect.

I would take their offer, as you're getting an extra set of hammers for your time. I would also inspect the assembly when you reassemble it to make sure the shaft is fully in the bearing race. Pop off grease covers to verify there is grease in the bearings if you feel concerned about lack of grease. I would chalk it up to "stuff happens".

 

[leonz]

He deserves a full refund as all he has now is scrap metal. He is protected by the state consumer protection laws in his state.
He needs to pursue a full refund of the total purchase price plus shipping costs via legal means in small claims court.
He should not have to mess with tearing it down completely and then reassembling it to make it work.