Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Milo]

More and more the Japanese are sourcing China to build their engines for them. The 3 cylinder engines in Kawasaki Mules are made by Chery in China. The single cylinder engine in my Mule Pro MX was made by Kymco in Taiwan. Who'd have thought mighty Kawasaki known for making great engines would be buying their engines from someone else?

 

[Boxman]

...I've bought several Chinese "TITAN" branded flail mowers which have universally been junk.

Why would you buy several?

 

[Sid Post]

More and more the Japanese are sourcing China to build their engines for them. The 3 cylinder engines in Kawasaki Mules are made by Chery in China. The single cylinder engine in my Mule Pro MX was made by Kymco in Taiwan. Who'd have thought mighty Kawasaki known for making great engines would be buying their engines from someone else?

The 3-cylinder Cherry 'car' motors are also used by John Deere in their UTV. Besides Kawasaki, someone else, forgot who, uses them too.

 

[def38]

What doesn't?? Heck my Harley has Japanese parts on it..

The BMW boxer motorcycle engine, known for its quality and longevity is being made in China. I don't know the details as to the source of the parts but a boxer powered BMW motorcycle will run for 500,000 miles if cared for. the Chinese version? TBD.

There is a fellow in Texas who has over 600,000 miles on his. The engine is original (Berlin), the rotating assembly is OE last I heard (about a year ago). My BMW was made in Berlin....pheeew. Its 20 years old and has required a starter rebuild only ($30.00). Runs like new.

 

[hunt4570]

The BMW boxer motorcycle engine, known for its quality and longevity is being made in China. I don't know the details as to the source of the parts but a boxer powered BMW motorcycle will run for 500,000 miles if cared for. the Chinese version? TBD.

There is a fellow in Texas who has over 600,000 miles on his. The engine is original (Berlin), the rotating assembly is OE last I heard (about a year ago). My BMW was made in Berlin....pheeew. Its 20 years old and has required a starter rebuild only ($30.00). Runs like new.

Yeah, the whole frond end, forks,tree,etc is all Japanese

How many miles on your Beemer? My '07 Road Glide has right at 90k, the only thing mine has needed is a couple clutches, but being an instructor I play a lot in the "friction zone" so that's to be expected.

And I'm guessing its good for at least another 100k.

 

[sodamo]

Why would you buy several?

Can’t speak for troverman, but I have bought 3 Farmer Helper/ Value Leader flails over the years. Replaced a couple of bearings and belts, but have no complaints as to. Quality especially vs price.

Replaced flail number one after catching skid on a major root and twisting body - would have happened no matter brand. Totally my fault as I had mowed area many times but didn’t account for the erosion from recent rains.

Sold number 2 with the tractor it was on to a friend. When bought I had upsized length. Wife never happy as i had a tendency to gouge one end or the other on our rather uneven ground.

Currently, number 3 is downsized to length of number one, but as hydraulic side shift. Cuts very nicely.

 

[def38]

My BMW has half the miles of your H-D so I better get ridin'. The clutch in older boxers is a dry, single plate clutch similar to that found in older VWs. In fact, the VW clutch disc (made by Sachs) will fit in some boxer BMW models, about $40.00. But, you have to remove the transmission to replace it a major repair. New boxers use a wet clutch. Also, the boxer is no longer air cooled...pity.

 

[hunt4570]

My BMW has half the miles of your H-D so I better get ridin'. The clutch in older boxers is a dry, single plate clutch similar to that found in older VWs. In fact, the VW clutch disc (made by Sachs) will fit in some boxer BMW models, about $40.00. But, you have to remove the transmission to replace it a major repair. New boxers use a wet clutch. Also, the boxer is no longer air cooled...pity.

Yeah, some of the new Harleys are water cooled now too, I believe it has to do with emissions.. And yeah, Get riding!

 

[troverman]

More and more the Japanese are sourcing China to build their engines for them. The 3 cylinder engines in Kawasaki Mules are made by Chery in China. The single cylinder engine in my Mule Pro MX was made by Kymco in Taiwan. Who'd have thought mighty Kawasaki known for making great engines would be buying their engines from someone else?

This is a shame, but basically even these "engine" companies are seeing reduced labor costs, reduced materials cost, and lower manufacturing costs to have production in China. More specifically, the Chinese labor force works for less money, raw materials like steel and iron cost less (and are often impure and less quality), and actual manufacturing costs are lower because China basically doesn't enforce environmental standards. For example, a plant in the US may be required by the EPA to install a $2m stack scrubber or be shut down. In China, that is not needed. This goes off the topic, but one can begin to understand why the Paris Climate pact is a bad deal for any country trying to compete with China on a manufacturing front. China "signs" the deal, but does not enforce it. If the US signs the deal, the EPA will enforce it. The cost to manufacture becomes too high and are economy can't compete. So it's very unfair, in short.

Why would you buy several?

I've bought several because of price and price alone. I'm not rich, and something like a 6-foot Alamo is $8k. The Chinese Titan is $1600. So if I'm lucky, I can get maybe one season out of the Titan and just buy another. I've found the housings are thin and not reinforced enough, so they twist. The uprights are weak where the steel is folded. The roller is too small, and the bearing grease points are ridiculous. The next one I buy this year, I intend to perform reinforcements myself prior to use; I think I could get two years or more out of it that way. It cuts well enough. I have broken flails, but any brand would break so I don't fault it there.

Yeah, some of the new Harleys are water cooled now too, I believe it has to do with emissions.. And yeah, Get riding!

They are water cooled in the cylinder heads only, and only certain bikes. It could have helped emissions, but frankly I think it had to do with rider comfort and probably getting more power. This started on some of the full-dresser bikes with the 103 engine. My Road King Classic has 40k miles...guess I better get riding.

 

[Fallon]

While historically the Chinese have had an atrocious environmental record, that is changing fast. They are turning things around way faster than the US on CO2 emissions. It's a lot easier to make the gains starting from a poor starting point, but they are getting things going. Lots or nasty power plants taken offline way early & i believe they are the now the global leader in deploying renewable energy sources. Still a long way to go though.

Lots of manufacturers are actually starting to ditch China for Vietnam & other places because China isnt as cheap as it use to be.

 

[Kscessnadriver]

I've bought several because of price and price alone. I'm not rich, and something like a 6-foot Alamo is $8k. The Chinese Titan is $1600. So if I'm lucky, I can get maybe one season out of the Titan and just buy another. I've found the housings are thin and not reinforced enough, so they twist. The uprights are weak where the steel is folded. The roller is too small, and the bearing grease points are ridiculous. The next one I buy this year, I intend to perform reinforcements myself prior to use; I think I could get two years or more out of it that way. It cuts well enough. I have broken flails, but any brand would break so I don't fault it there.

How many acres are you mowing that you're wearing out a Titan flail in a year? I've got one as well, and I've got no indications of any wear on the machine.

 

[aczlan]

While historically the Chinese have had an atrocious environmental record, that is changing fast. They are turning things around way faster than the US on CO2 emissions. It's a lot easier to make the gains starting from a poor starting point, but they are getting things going. Lots or nasty power plants taken offline way early & i believe they are the now the global leader in deploying renewable energy sources. Still a long way to go though.

How much of the US lack of progress is because we already took care of the low hanging fruit years ago?

Aaron Z

 

[Fallon]

How much of the US lack of progress is because we already took care of the low hanging fruit years ago?

Aaron Z

I said as much. It's easier to make progress from a low starting point than a higher one. And realistically we weren't much different pollution wise during the industrial revolution from where China was recently.

 

[aczlan]

I said as much. It's easier to make progress from a low starting point than a higher one. And realistically we weren't much different pollution wise during the industrial revolution from where China was recently.

I would argue that our overall volume of pollution during the Industrial Revolution was lower (smaller country, smaller cities vs China in the recent past), but the per-capita numbers were probbaly similar.

It bugs me when people say that "XX country is making huge strides in reducing pollution and the US is going nowhere" when the reality is that we have made huge strides since the Industrial Revolution and are at (or past) the point of diminishing returns while many of the countries that are being lauded for making huge strides are just barely past the Industrial Revolution in their progress and have a long way to go to reach the point of diminishing returns...

Aaron Z

 

[troverman]

How many acres are you mowing that you're wearing out a Titan flail in a year? I've got one as well, and I've got no indications of any wear on the machine.

I'm mowing probably a total of 40 acres, at 3 different locations (largest being 25 acres), twice per year. Mostly field grass, but all on steep slopes which may add to the stress, I don't know. I've got pictures if you'd like to see a torn up Titan.

...It bugs me when people say that "XX country is making huge strides in reducing pollution and the US is going nowhere" when the reality is that we have made huge strides since the Industrial Revolution and are at (or past) the point of diminishing returns while many of the countries that are being lauded for making huge strides are just barely past the Industrial Revolution in their progress and have a long way to go to reach the point of diminishing returns...

Aaron Z

This is a great point that few people realize. The graph showing money and time spent on reducing emissions and environmental impact is far from linear. When you start at the bottom, you can make tremendous gains in a short period of time. After that, it takes massive inputs of time and money to make even small gains, just as you pointed out with the law of diminishing marginal utility. Of course, shady politicians looking out only for themselves will slam their own country (the US) as not keeping pace with China's alleged gains. They know better, but is serves their narrative and their constituents. And from an economic point of view, it is entirely ridiculous for some environmental summit to collectively order the world's largest (or nearly largest) economy to cripple itself while others don't need to do the same. And furthermore, the likelihood of China to actual comply with what it has agreed to, and to enforce it, is slim. Talk is cheap.

 

[Kscessnadriver]

I'm mowing probably a total of 40 acres, at 3 different locations (largest being 25 acres), twice per year. Mostly field grass, but all on steep slopes which may add to the stress, I don't know. I've got pictures if you'd like to see a torn up Titan.

Fair enough, I was just curious as to the situation. I mow probably 6-8 acres every couple weeks with mine (the 68 inch Titan flail with hammer blades). Only issue I've had with it thus far is operator error (picked up a bunch of fence wire).

 

[troverman]

Fair enough, I was just curious as to the situation. I mow probably 6-8 acres every couple weeks with mine (the 68 inch Titan flail with hammer blades). Only issue I've had with it thus far is operator error (picked up a bunch of fence wire).

I suspect the smaller mowers are actually stronger. Mine twisted slightly across the main housing. I'll be buying another soon, and I'm planning on getting the 68" instead of the 72". Not much loss of cutting width, but a little less stress on the whole unit. Maybe 68" is the sweet spot. It might also help the tractor not slow down as much in the very thick stuff.

 

[Kscessnadriver]

I suspect the smaller mowers are actually stronger. Mine twisted slightly across the main housing. I'll be buying another soon, and I'm planning on getting the 68" instead of the 72". Not much loss of cutting width, but a little less stress on the whole unit. Maybe 68" is the sweet spot. It might also help the tractor not slow down as much in the very thick stuff.

I can bog my MF150 down a bunch with the 68 inch flail, if I get into deep grass. Even in first gear, there are places I can't take a full cut and not bog the thing down. But I've got very thick pasture grass I'm cutting, while I don't have any animals in the pasture.

 

[def38]

I would argue that our overall volume of pollution during the Industrial Revolution was lower (smaller country, smaller cities vs China in the recent past), but the per-capita numbers were probbaly similar.

It bugs me when people say that "XX country is making huge strides in reducing pollution and the US is going nowhere" when the reality is that we have made huge strides since the Industrial Revolution and are at (or past) the point of diminishing returns while many of the countries that are being lauded for making huge strides are just barely past the Industrial Revolution in their progress and have a long way to go to reach the point of diminishing returns...

Aaron Z

I have travelled to China many times during 1996-2008. I even went up the Yangtze while Three Gorges was under construction before it was closed. Flying into Shanghai, Beijing and other major Chinese cities is depressing due to the atmospheric conditions as you descend for landing. Once off the airplane, you can taste the air and often tell what is being burned in the nearby dump, power station of industrial plant. The rivers are filthy strewn with trash and dead animal carcasses. Awakening in your hotel, looking out the window in the morning is discouraging when you realize you cannot see for more than a city block due to pollution. The air is laden with poisons from a variety of sources. Public facilities are filthy and some are mere pits. Busses and other public transportation spew smoke, soot and fumes with no emission controls. The few electric trains are clean drawing electric power from generating stations that burn unwashed, low grade coal.

And China will not change their ways in our lifetime. They have no incentives to do so. In fact, the opposite is true. The government in China has no concern for the average citizen. In fact, people are expendable. That's what happens when the government becomes so powerful it can control every aspect of life.

 

[metalbender]

Most of the clean air bs around here is just that, BS. Here in Canada we have an abundance of trees and other vegetation that scrub the air in exchange for the oxygen we breathe. And our prime minister Turdo along with lib gang of thieves has managed to tax that very air we breathe, in the name of saving the planet. The pollution coming from other parts of the world are rarely spoken of as that would undermine their agenda. Sick of it.