Let them take everything?

[Richard]

You'll need a bit of background:

My aunt lives in a small town. She's got early stages dimensia. She's been living in a small house that was actually her childhood home (inherited by her when my grandparents passed)

She has now been in a nursing home for several months and finally, granted power of attorney to "someone" (which happened to be me) so we can now untangle the mystery of her life.

Her life is a shambles but that's another book.

She's 73 and has gambled her life away. She even took out a mortgage on her paid off home in 1999 at 12.25% (thanks "Beneficial" )

She's now had to file bankruptcy and the wheels are turning for the bank to reposess her house.

During the last couple years, she evidently had a neighbor who wanted to 'rent' her detached garage to store his truck or snowmobile or tools or something in (I have NO idea what)

Seems they paid her a month of rent and for the last couple years, have supposedly not paid her anything (according to her, who's suffering early dimensia)

I don't know what to believe as I'm sure it was a cash deal...he probably won't be able to provide copys of checks to prove anything......



Ok, that's all setup....

oh, and my aunt is about 6 or more hours from me so one of her friends has been my 'eyes & ears' on some issues I'm trying to iron out.

Her friend says there is in fact, a snowmobile in the garage right now and the neighbor has been warned by this lady and another neighbor that the house will be going into foreclosure and he should move his stuff.

Evidently, he's thinking nothing will touch his stuff so he's telling them he's not worried about anything.

As of my typing this, I do NOT know his name nor number. The neighbor who does, is now on a 2 week vacation.

ok...now my 'problem' or question.....

Odds are he's not paid my aunt much of anything for rent of using her garage. According to the lady I spoke to, odds are, he's not going to move things out on my suggestion (though I don't know that to be fact)

If the bank came "today" to foreclose on the house, the house is currently full of my aunts stuff as of the day she left for the hospital (then moved to nursing home).

I mean, even her left over biscuits are in the fridge! NOTHING has been removed from this house and of course, nothing has been removed from the garage.

If the foreclosure came today what exactly happens?

Do they dump her stuff on the street? (I'd doubt it)
Do they have a garage sale?
Truth be told, her life is such a shambles right now, and she has so much of nothing in the house, there's nothing the family WANTS to save other than maybe 4 pictures on the mantle.

Most importantly, what I'm wondering about is... what about this dudes things in her garage?

What if the bank came in today, changed the lock on the garage and essentially, froze HIS asset up too?

Although I think that would be some poetic justice if he's never paid her the rent she says he hasn't, it woudn't be 100% fair to him to lose his snowmobile or what ever else he's got in there.

I won't be up there for several weeks so I can't just easily knock on his door or, just move his things out of the garage....

I'm interested to hear any thoughts.

Would his things in her garage be viewed as hers? Do snowmobiles in particular (in ohio) have to be licensed so he could prove it's his?

Would he be at risk of losing it mixed in with her things?

 

[Jimbrown]

I have gone thru this with my MIL. If you do not want to wind up paying for here nursing home bills you need to get her registered for welfare/nursing care. It goes by different names in different states. Essentialy she needs to be penniless for the state to help. I wound up paying 6 moths of carehome fees over two or three silly $600 insurance polices that I like to never got rid of.

Have or contract an estate sale and sell everyting in the house relatives do not want. I did it all in one day. Close to the end of the day several dealers came and offered to take everything left for $500 or so. Good ridiance. I also offered to neighbors the chance to take anything that they might want or had perhsps given as a gift.

You would be better of to sell the house but in sounds like it may not be sellable.

If you do not want to do any of that, just tell the guy to move his stuff cause the bank is forclosing (in writing). If he leaves it and does not get it back it is his problem not yours. There is little chance the bank is going to swoop in and lock the place up in the middle of the night. They don't want the thing either.

 

[chh]

First a comment on the POA. Did you do this thru a good atty? Keep good records and reciepts or it could later become a "PIA". I was POA and later a Guardian for my parents and it can get to be a real handful it there are a lot of problems or assets. If you have a atty ask a lot of questions and follow the book on what your state law requires.

On the stuff, I would ask the bank or your atty(if you have one). My gut feeling is that when the bank takes it anything that is in the house or on property would be considered theirs. Any items could end up in the trash or junkyard if they have a cleaning company come in. I would believe that if anyone wanted anything it should be removed ASAP or be prepared to prove to them that it is theirs. If the neighbor has been warned and doesn't get it out of there it is his tough luck. IMO

 

[ByronBob]

Neighbors house is in forclosure at the moment. They came over a few weeks ago and added padlocks to all the buildings on the property. So essentially if they come over and the sled is in the garAGE it'll get locked in so to speak.

If he has the registration for the unit then he'll be able to reclaim it later. Most of the states give you a registration. If not their is a VIN number on the sled which he might be able to verify if he bought it new and he's the owner.

Foolish is the thought I had. He should move his stuff.

 

[schmism]

its my understanding that the bank owns the property (dirt) and the house that sits on it.

anything inside is not owned by them.

from what ive seen, they generally dont assume the stuff in side has any value. if you do not remove it, they likely wont take the time to remove it and just auction the property "as is"

the buyer may assume he is buying the stuff also, but (i think) he cant leagally say he owns your stuff. now should you say, i dont want it, he could sell it then as you have essentally thrown it away and he picked it up out of the trash.

some banks will roll in a dumpster and pay to have it cleaned up, everything goes in the dumpster no questions asked. if its not attached it gets tossed.

depends on the level of "get involved" the bank wants to take.

when we were looking for used single wide trailers to set on our property we came across a repo'd one. still had all the stuff in side, dishes, food, clothes everything. sold as is, would deliver as is.




if i was in your shoes

1) figure out how to save the property and sell it on my own
2) take a week and go through the house and collect the important family stuff. hate to know you just let 100's of years of family history just poof...

if you have declared bankruptcy shouldn't you be able to keep your property? (that was my understanding)

is there a life insurance policy involved? it might be an issue... i don't know if the debtors can place a lean on that or not...

 

[Richard]

Hey Jim,

Ya... not mentioned in the thread is that this house is evidently just a hair away from being condemmable by the city (county? state?... who ever does that)

According to her son, there is literally nothing of value in there, also...she's had 3 cats loose and she's not cleaned out their litterbox for months, causing the cats to use the rest of the house as their box. Her neighbor tells me the house is infested with fleas.... it's a very ugly situation.

I asked her son "can we have a yard sale and let anyone take anything they want, even if it was for 10 cents??"

He said no way. The lady friend that I've been dealing with on the phone agreed that there is nothing in there anyone would (or should) want.... it reeks because of the cat excriment/urine. The ceiling in the kitchen is falling down... I do not know if that means the roof is caving in or there was some wet drywall. Her neighbor told me "I picked up some tiles and stacked them in the corner" I do NOT know what he means by that since I thought she had a drywall ceiling and not a suspended. My iminagation might be making the problem much greater but everyone keeps telling me I'm not exaggerating in my own mind.

The entire family is 100% happy with simply letting the bank have the house as is...not much sense in breaking our backs or wallets to clean up a place, just to turn the keys over. If they wanted to give her a 12.25% interest rate (on $90,000 for 30 years when she was 68 or so old...) then let them reap some of their rewards.

I just want this guy who's got things in the garage to have a fair chance at removing his things. If he's not paid my aunt, that alone would make me angry enough that he was using her....

As for finances, we're in process now of applying for medicaid but...she's got too much money in the bank ($2,500) as her pension kicks in every month and she stopped paying the mortgage & other things because of her bankruptcy. She even filed against the bank which, now that I have seen the house (1 year ago), I think is a bit of poetic justice, given their interest rate.

On the insurance policies....as I understand what I've been reading, she's not allowed to have any more than $1,500 of accumulated cash value between any/all insruance policies. That won't be a problem because she's already removed most/all of the cash value (via loan) to gamble that away too....

As for There is little chance the bank is going to swoop in and lock the place up in the middle of the night. They don't want the thing either

I agree they don't want it but they will swoop in and will probably swoop in during the day in broad daylight....right when this guy at work and away from home.

The irony is... I've been TRYING to deal with the foreclosure people to try to get a feel for what their plans are so I COULD try to get anything out of the place and leave it for them.... they won't tell us anything. Little do they seem to realize I'm really trying to work WITH them if possible as I want to do the 'right' thing however, if they're going to be idiots, then I'm just as happy not putting myself out to clean up a horrible mess that's 6 hours away just for kicks!!

 

[Richard]

figure out how to save the property and sell it on my own

Evidently, house has balance of $85,000 on mortgage, building is full of cat excriment, fleas... needs to probably be razed to the ground and rebuilt. If so, the lot is probably not worth $50K

This turned out to be a really bad loan for the bank and given I suppose she had FUN while she gambled her mortgage loan away, this turned out to be a load of 'fun' for my aunt

I'm in process today of having the 3 cats corraled and given away. The nursing home said the other day they're 95% sure she will not be able to go back out on her own. Interstingly, just 4 weeks ago they said they thought she could be out in 2 weeks..... I guess she's deteriorating faster than they'd anticipated.

 

[alchemysa]

Her friend says there is in fact, a snowmobile in the garage right now and the neighbor has been warned by this lady and another neighbor that the house will be going into foreclosure and he should move his stuff.

Evidently, he's thinking nothing will touch his stuff so he's telling them he's not worried about anything.

As of my typing this, I do NOT know his name nor number. The neighbor who does, is now on a 2 week vacation.

If the neighbor doesn't want the snowmobile back then there may be a reason he doesn't want it on his own property. Such as, its stolen, or its paid for with drug money and he doesn't want it seized.

A friend of mine has a holiday shack by the beach. He borrowed a neighbor's caravan to house a couple of visitors for a few days. While he had the van, the cops raided the neighbor and seized everything. My friend got a call from the neighbor who said "If the cops ask, tell them you just bought the van from me". Cops never approached my friend so he didn't have to lie or 'upset' the neighbor. My friend returned the van ASAP but the cops had already gone. Turned out the neighbor was heavily into the drug trade and had some very heavy associates. You never would have known it because this was his holiday shack where he came with his kids and did the same as all the other families.

But of course the snowmobile could be entirely legit.

 

[rox]

Only my opinion but I think you are getting your unies in a bundy about the guy with the snowmobile you're thinking he took advantage of your aunt by not paying hr rent on the garage. To me that is water over the ****. If he wasn't paying rent why she let him so it must have been okay with her. IMHO I think you are a little quick on the trigger to condemn the man. You don't know anything about the situation as your aunt is not competent to say. I'm sure you will eventually make contact with he snowmobile owner and he'll move it out.

Also you are pretty hard on Beneficial which is not a bank is it? Isn't it a finance company? She was offered that rate of interest and she took it. If she would have been a better credit risk she would have gotten a lower rate. Interest rate offered and credit risk are in direct correlation. It seems to me that since she defaulted and in fact declared bankruptcy Beneficial ws right to charge her a high rate s she was a risky loan. I don't feel to bad for them, they knew the risk and made the loan anyway. In this loan they are the loosers. She made out like a bandit took the monehy and gambled it away. Sad how some people live heir lives isn't it?

 

[SPIKER]

im in ohio in area of Mansfield/Wooster. there are a lot of foreclosed homes in area. one right in front of my farm too. (I'm thinking of a low ball offer on that one ) there are registration stickers on snow mobile machines, just like boats. but that does not mean it belongs to the restraint's/holder only that they have their name on it now to use. that also does not mean it was registered by him last. Boats, sleds & I think atvs ect are every 3 years up here. older ones have no titles not sure about NEW ones...

as for the stuff next time you are up look at every thing check under bed cubbies there may be a stash of goodies... if nothing is found try a massive moving garage sale. every thing goes cheap type thing in local paper & creigs list type thing say that it is what it is a foreclosure sale...

bank will send people over to LOOK at it and then board it up and lock it up what is in there then is basically theirs to dispose of (meant abandoned junk) usually (like house out front of my place) the bank will do one of 2 or 3 things, usually first they list it, then if no interest they auction usually due to fact the bank does not do much up keep including things like paying for taxes utilities or anything else and often the homes are broken into and pipes siding ect stolen out... properties get dumped up pretty fast when no heat or are locked up no lawn care ect. lots of cities will force auction for these reasons (blight on neighborhood ects.)

one don't think that the pension will keep her from getting into gov hosing/aid. they will take the pension as part of her care expenses. and usually try & get rest of care cost/month from family members if they have the $. next would be poor folks homes usually worse places with little well being for the people in there. there is a pretty good one locally that my mom lives in as she is also up in age and we can't care for her properly. She seems to be doing well there too.

as far as neighbor you have tried to warn him don't bother going out of you're way if he wants to think that it isn't going to happen then it is his own worry.

the place out in front of me I mentioned has a nearly falling down shed the bank sent people out to board up the nearly empty shed which I know cost them more than the shed was worth lol it had some really bad rusty yard tools all of 3 bucks worth when new and 2 broken non-functioning weed eaters also not worth anything... the shed makes property worth less as it is falling apart... yard is hay (not mowed this year at all) has been empty since last summer/fall when they move out. took 7 or 8 months for bank (FHA) to put up Realtor sign... then they wanted the tax valuation price on something that was maybe worth 2/3's of that... is a modular design (not a god one either) on a basement which is ok but leaks so probably has 2 feet of water in there by now as well... house had a bunch of stuff left in there that they didn't want. mostly all junk and buyers get it probably part of reason it hasn't sold there is 2 weeks worth of cleaning needed to be done then re-work of homes problems prior to moving in...

mark

 

[jinman]

Richard, I think as a POA for your aunt, your responsibilty is to her and nobody else. You should do what is best for her and let the other people's "chips" fall where they may. If her property is worth nothing (or less than nothing by your description) then I think I'd let it go to foreclosure after you are satisfied there is nothing of value there. If you can obtain an signed affidavit from another relative or two, that would also show your good intent. Your responsibility ends where her assets end. You have no responsibility to go out of your way or take money out of your pocket. If she were of sound mind and was presented with this, would she do any different? That's the question you have to ask.

Of course, I have no legal credentials and this is just adviice coming from experience. I'm reminded of my visit to the bank after my father passed away. I told them I had POA for him. The bank VP informed me that I did not. He said POA only exists as long as the person is living. If I was not the executor of the will, he didn't want to talk to me. Luckily, I was also executor.

 

[SPIKER]

Richard, I think as a POA for your aunt, your responsibilty is to her and nobody else. You should do what is best for her and let the other people's "chips" fall where they may. If her property is worth nothing (or less than nothing by your description) then I think I'd let it go to foreclosure after you are satisfied there is nothing of value there. If you can obtain an signed affidavit from another relative or two, that would also show your good intent. Your responsibility ends where her assets end. You have no responsibility to go out of your way or take money out of your pocket. If she were of sound mind and was presented with this, would she do any different? That's the question you have to ask.

Of course, I have no legal credentials and this is just adviice coming from experience. I'm reminded of my visit to the bank after my father passed away. I told them I had POA for him. The bank VP informed me that I did not. He said POA only exists as long as the person is living. If I was not the executor of the will, he didn't want to talk to me. Luckily, I was also executor.

good info JIM: I didn't think to say anything about being executor or contacting other members of family in writing! got to think of what others will say AFTER it is all said & done... I'm no attny either just speaking from/with advice that I've seen from others in area. one such was 2 members of my GF family didn't even show up to her dad's funeral yet caused a big stink after the settlement of the estate as they didn't get anything & cost legal fee's more than the estate was worth when they wanted THEIR SHARE & hadn't seen her DAD in 15 years in one case!!!

Mark

 

[Tom_H]

God, we've been through this kind of thing with my parents and my wife's parents. This has to be one of the most frustrating aspects in life. I don't have any advice for you, and I don't mean this flippantly, but I feel your pain. Been there, done that, not fun. Good luck, Godspeed.

 

[schmism]

make shure you check in with a lawyer for the long term financial situation.

even if they foreclose, its my understanding that you (someone) are still the hook for the balance of the loan. If the load was for 80K and they auction for 50K you (someone) still owes the bank 30K.

i dont know what exists out there for protections when it comes to garnishing pensions or social security, or life insurance payouts etc...

 

[QRTRHRS]

Not trying to detract from the serousness of this thread but I have a bit of levity to add

True story. Older couple, he is failing in health, bank is trying to repossess. He passes away. His wife fulfills his last wishes though some she thought strange.

Seems he wanted to be cremated and have his ashes spread on the property so she dutifully did so. In his writings, he said "and then let us see those sob's get me off of this property"!

 

[jinman]

make shure you check in with a lawyer for the long term financial situation.

even if they foreclose, its my understanding that you (someone) are still the hook for the balance of the loan. If the load was for 80K and they auction for 50K you (someone) still owes the bank 30K.

Steve, it's always good advice to check with a lawyer familiar with estates and probate. I agree.

This is not a disagreement, but just further info. The reason I was at the bank after my father died was that he had co-signed a loan with a family member for a car. As it turns out, my father had made over 1/2 of those car payments because the family member would get behind and the bank would contact my father. When I got a letter from the bank after his death, I went for a visit. The outcome was that they simply asked for a copy of my father's death certificate and removed his name from the note. I'm not sure all banks or all states would have similar processes. It's just what happened in my case.

 

[Ronbo]

My mom is now in a nursing home after a series of strokes. They kept giving me different time frames for her coming home until I told them she will not be coming home. She has no place to live, cannot shower or bath herself. Cannot walk or get dressed. She is now there for life. Just let them know that she will not be coming home, as she has no home and cannot care for herself. That will changer her status.

Ron

 

[4720 OWNER]

Went thru similar, here in MN, a social worker was assigned and then a state sponsored executor (aka vulture). They had all the contacts and info needed so i just stepped back and watched them go. Sure they did some things that i would have not done but then again was it worth all the hassle to try and do it myself? Nope. Would not have gotten paid for all the hassle as well since the court would have ruled that it was a 'family resoponsiblity'. Skip all the hassle and step away and breath a sigh of relief and go and see mom once in a while. Believe me, those trips are the worst when she may cry and ask you to take her out out of there, and maybe even made up stories of abuse and such. Your boat will be tough enough to row, let it go.

Just IMHO.

 

[Richard]

even if they foreclose, its my understanding that you (someone) are still the hook for the balance of the loan. If the load was for 80K and they auction for 50K you (someone) still owes the bank 30K.

i dont know what exists out there for protections when it comes to garnishing pensions or social security, or life insurance payouts etc...

I'm no attorney either however, there is no way I can believe that anyone who didn't sign any documents will be financally responsible for anything that she created as an individual. they sure are not going to intimidate me nor anyone else that we owe anyone a dime in this situation.... they can (will) go after her and/or her estate. It will be too bad for them that there really is no estate.

Now, what is a bit interesting is, she filed bankruptcy and as I'm finding out, included literally everyone. Her home mortgage, her car loan, maybe a credit card.... everyone so, as I understand it (being a dummy) she has no more responsiblity to those folks however, they (home & car) DO have the right and obligation to go after their collateralized assets and take them.


That's why they're forclosing on her, she filed bankruptcy on them.

I wish I'd known what was going on..... but that's how she lived her life. not telling anyone anything and if anyone ever asked about anything she'd get pretty worked up towards them accusing them of meddling in her business and "why don't you just go back home" kind of stuff.

Actually, it's a pretty sad story from her perspective.

 

[FrogLick]

When my parents had to give up their home and move into assisted living, they sold their house and kept the mortgage note. Unfortunately the buyer wasn't regular in payments, bounced many checks, and didn't pay anything for months at a time. He was so far behind in payments that the loan balance with accrued interest was more than the original loan (sale) amount or what the house could have been resold for. After my parent's death my sister and I filed foreclosure. Of course he promply filed bankruptsy. This became kind of a tit-for-tat situation as far as the courts were concerned. We as the mortgage note holders just became another creditor (there were many) and the courts would decide on how his "payment plan" would satisfy the creditors. Guess a home isn't really collateral for a mortgage loan at all and the courts are loath to throw a man out of his castle.

I feel your frustration and applaude your willingness to try to do the right thing for your aunt and the rest of her family. Maybe I missed it but why doesn't her "don't sell anything" son have POA instead of you, her nephew? Will you also be executor of her estate? No matter what you do in either capacity I think it will be impossible to make everyone happy and only attorneys will come out ahead.