Let them take everything?

[4720 OWNER]

Actually that is a pretty typical story for dementia. Been there, done that. Not only did mom have dementia but dad had a inoperable brain tumor and made all sorts of weird decisions on her behalf, including shielding her from docs that could have helped her. State got it all, he willed to her, she to him, noone else.

Get the social worker and step carefully away. Sad but true. You can care but can get over your head very fast. Be very careful you do not become a guarantor on her medical care in any fashion.

 

[rox]

Actually that is a pretty typical story for dementia. Been there, done that. Not only did mom have dementia but dad had a inoperable brain tumor and made all sorts of weird decisions on her behalf, including shielding her from docs that could have helped her. State got it all, he willed to her, she to him, noone else.

Get the social worker and step carefully away. Sad but true. You can care but can get over your head very fast. Be very careful you do not become a guarantor on her medical care in any fashion.

4720 OWNER If I may say, that is an awfully odd will for people with children to make. They each willed to each other and no one else? So when they both passed any assets went to the state? Did an attorney draw that up? I kind of wondered about your earlier post but now I understand your point of view.

 

[chh]

Unfortunately that is a will that is too commonly used as a single will. It is not an estate plan for sure though it can be part of an overall plan.(One to the other to a final estate after the second passes away.) My parents had that type of one to the other simple will for years, it would have only created huge problems if it had been used and they finally realized that and created a pretty good estate plan a couple of years before their health started going downhill. The plan did not make everyone in the family happy, but it did carry out most of their wishes.

 

[2manyrocks]

In which state does your aunt live? In some states, the lender has to file a lawsuit against her to obtain a court order for the house and land to be sold at court auction. Other states like TN allow a sale after a foreclosure sale notice has been sent to her and published in a local newspaper for 3 weeks.

Many of the national chain lenders have so many foreclosures in so many states that their communication process is just terrible.

After the sale is over, the buyer (tends to be the lender) will send her a letter demanding that she move her stuff out or they'll either set it in the street or take it to the dump.

You ask a realtor/auctioneer to look at the land and the building contents and advise you whether an auction sale would be worthwhile to your aunt. That would help you make an informed decision whether to let it go or try to have a sale. Ask him to write you a short letter summarizing his recommendation for your files.

I'd just suggest writing the tennant/squatter/moocher a certified mail letter saying the bank is about to foreclose and that continued storage of anything of his at your aunt's is at his sole risk and responsibility.

You probably should verify that she obtained a chapter 7 discharge order in her bankruptcy that discharges her from liability to the lender. Doesn't sound like she has any assets for them to attach later anyway, but if she has received a discharge order in bankruptcy, the lender can't recover anything from her. You can check with her former attorney or ask the clerk of the bankruptcy court where you can find the order.

Does this help?

 

[Richard]

I feel your frustration and applaude your willingness to try to do the right thing for your aunt and the rest of her family. Maybe I missed it but why doesn't her "don't sell anything" son have POA instead of you, her nephew? Will you also be executor of her estate? No matter what you do in either capacity I think it will be impossible to make everyone happy and only attorneys will come out ahead.

I don't know the actual reason other than she says her son is essentially disorganized. In truth, it actually worked out better that I do it since he works in a machine shop and is essentially busy 8 hours a day during business hours. I push a pencil at a desk so I can quite easily be on the phone bird-dogging something that I need to find out about (no offense to Bird )

I will not be nor do I intend on being the executor of her estate. My POA will dissolve when she passes and at that time, I'll let her son take care of everything else.

All I've really been doing is making sure her insurance policies are up to date with updated beneficiary information (100% to her son). She's been very clear to me that she wants him to get anything that she has so I've been getting things orgainized to that effect.

I've also been changing her checking account to a "POD" account. POD is a "Pay on Death" designation so when she passes, it will revert to him owning it and will not have to pass through probabate.

I'm not an attorney but I'd suggest that anyone/everyone look into little tidbits like that. "POD" (pay on death) for bank accounts and "TOD" (transfer on death) for non-IRA brokerage accounts.

 

[rox]

I've also been changing her checking account to a "POD" account. POD is a "Pay on Death" designation so when she passes, it will revert to him owning it and will not have to pass through probabate.

I'm not an attorney but I'd suggest that anyone/everyone look into little tidbits like that. "POD" (pay on death) for bank accounts and "TOD" (transfer on death) for non-IRA brokerage accounts.

Richard- I didn't knowo about those type of bank accounts. We will be visiting our Wisconsin banker next week. I'm going to ask him about these.

 

[dooleysm]

There is a local lawyer that does a short segment on the radio everyday at 5 that I listen to on the way home. She has dealt alot recently with wills and probate and death related issues. According to her a joint savings or checking account will accomplish the same thing. When one of the people on a joint account dies, all money in the account belongs entirely to the other person, regardless of what the deceased's will may say.

I believe it was the same for real estate as well, though I'm sure that's the kind of thing that can vary by state.

 

[Richard]

Richard- I didn't knowo about those type of bank accounts. We will be visiting our Wisconsin banker next week. I'm going to ask him about these.

Rox, POD & TOD are more of account designations, as in titling. What it is essentially doing is (like your IRA account I hope) simply putting a designated beneficiary onto the account and in so doing, will allow that item to pass directly.

You can have a JOINT account (let's say Rox & Mr. Rox) that is also a POD/TOD (POD are bank accounts, TOD are brokerage accounts that are non-IRA type)

Anyways, the POD/TOD would be to a child for example and NOT to the joint owner. This way, if one of the joint owners dies, the account passes to the other joint owner and on their passing, will pass on to the designee. If something happens to both owners (car crash) then it goes straight to designee.

 

[Richard]

According to her a joint savings or checking account will accomplish the same thing. When one of the people on a joint account dies, all money in the account belongs entirely to the other person, regardless of what the deceased's will may say.

I believe it was the same for real estate as well, though I'm sure that's the kind of thing that can vary by state.

I think that's a valid point however, (and this is not legal nor tax advice to anyone reading )

If Rox owns a house. Let's say she paid $50,000 for it and today with all her olives, it's worth $1,000,000. If she put me as her child, on as joint owner then she has also given me one half of her cost basis.

Meaning, if she passed the next day (probably from eating too many olives ) then I'd own the $1,000,000 house BUT I'd have a cost basis of about $525,000 in it. I'd have her original cost basis divided by two plus the step up amount at her demise.

I'd suggest that I'd RATHER inherit the house with a $1,000,000 cost basis and get the entire step up in value tax free.

So, in bank accounts (savings, checking) Joint might be fine. The 'downside' of making it joint is if the son/daughter is a ner-do well, then they'd have full access to the money. also, if they got divorced or in a car wreck, their half of the account would be their asset and could potentially, have a claim slapped onto it. Keeping it NON joint, but POD keeps that risk out of the equation and still gives them immediate access at the passing of the owner.

In real estate or brokerage accounts (non-IRA type) then I'd suggest you might want to stay away from joint since it might make more sense to pass on the stepped up cost basis rather than to share it.

 

[rox]

Richard- I like the POD option. My husband and i are joint on everything and although my children are great I see no reason to make them joint on our accounts. The POD I like a lot. Since our son will be getting the farm while we still are alive I'm sure my daughter will get everything else when we are gone so I would make her POD on all accounts. Which reminds me we do ahve our kids as equal benificiaries on our stok broker accounts I should probably change that to jsut my daughter. e need to do estate planning, well more than planning executing an estate plan, over here in France. The inheritance tax over here is a pill though. I think it is only 300,000 Euros pass tax free and after that the kids need to pay inheritance tax. We seriuly need estate planning and have been talking about it. We have wills made in USA but if we die in France which is likely, those US Wills are not recognized. Next eyar we need to get that done. Pray there is no plane accident on September 9th going from Nice France to Chicago as we have not made the estate plans we need to do.