LB1914 - turning up the pressure

[gladehound]

Hi all. I must say I'm extremely pleased with my 2004 lb1914 that I've had about a year. Bought it used with 200 hours and am about at 300 now with no problems. However, I'd like more hydraulic pressure.

How can I turn the loader and system pressure from 1900 and 2050 psi respectivly up to ~2500 psi? Will a shop do this for me?

Can the lb1914 hydraulic system handle 2500psi?

Most new CUTs have higher system pressures than the LB1914. Are they designed to handle more pressure or is the safety margin just less than on the older machines?

I'm asking because lately I've been thinking some of my jobs would be easier with a bigger tractor. But as my cousin tells me "it doesn't matter how big your machine is, you'll always be able to find a job that makes you want something bigger". Keep in mind he has a pond digging business with track loader, backhoe etc.

I think he's right. Also, I think you also give up some things wtih a larger machine like manuverability, ability to get into small spaces etc. I like the 48inch width of my tractor. It comes in handy.

So..... I think my best option is to maximize the capabilities of the LB1914. I would like it to be able to dig better. Obviously a tooth bar will help with this so I plan to get one. But I also want more hydaulic lift. It doesn't need a lot more, but 25% more would be usable with the weight of this tractor.

 

[JoelD]

I am thinking the systems are designed to run the pressure they run, more pressure, more strain on pump, valves, piston packings, etc. I am thinking you up from stock pressure you up the failure rate.

 

[BTI]

Have you checked the pressure?
It may be running too below spec.

BTI

 

[DeNiro]

I think you will find that the factory has set the pressure a little lower in the loader than the at pump. I believe you will be safe turning up the pressure at the loader because the pump has a relief valve that will protect it.
A dealer told me that it is usual for the factory to set relief valve so that the pressure is relieved at the loader control. Turning it up is simple. There is a little cap with two screws on the control valve. Remove it and you can see the relieve valve screw.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Ron, where are you at in Pa. Maybe I can help you. Andy.

 

[gladehound]

Thanks for the offer. South eastern PA. Montgomery County. Perkiomenville township.

 

[cgraham]

I have read that the FEL on the LB10914 is a little anemic.

The KL1210 which is specified for the 1914 is listed a breakout force at pivot pin = 1,692lb and lift capacity as 850lb with a 4' bucket.

Based on my experience, whatever these numbers mean, the FEL is indeed anemic. If I plow into a not very deep pile of dirt and fill the bucket, the moaning and groaning tells me I have to back off a little to be able to lift the load. In fact, with dry, loose material, it is lack of break-out force rather than lift which is the problem. Once free of the pile, lift is no problem.

Any material that is not loose has to be broken up with the backhoe first.

The relief valve setting is given as 1,900 psi.

I thought the moaning and groaning is the relief valves, in which case it is no use turning up the hydraulic pressure, is it?

Where is the control valve? It is not shown in my FEL manual. I'd like more info on how to adjust it for greater power. How much more is it realistic to hope for.

Charlie

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Thanks for the offer. South eastern PA. Montgomery County. Perkiomenville township.

You are a little far away. Pa is a big state, for the east coast anyway.
You could buy a nice little pressure gauge kit for under a hundred and do it yourself.

 

[gladehound]

Charlie,

if the loader relief is set at 1900 and the main relief is set at 2200 you would gain ~15% in total lift or break out or whatever you want to call it. They both go up 15%. It will actually be more like 17-18% more break out and lift because loader arm and bucket weight are a constant. I can explain more if you want but it isn't that important.

If your system is set at 2300 psi (which I think is about the max for this tractor because I think the pump max is 2350 psi based on my manual) then you would get 23-24% more breakout and lift.

So just by adjusting a screw on the loader, your breakout could go over 2000 pounds at the pivot pin and 1000 pounds for a full lift.

One thing that hurts the KL1210 is it's nice deep bucket. I love a deep bucket but it hurts your roll back and lift at the bucket tip. You will notice that many similar size tractors have much more shallow buckets which makes the hydraulics seem stronger.

For example. If you had 1600 lbs break out on a 5 foot boom and you add and 18 inch long bucket you now have 1230 pounds at the bucket tip. But if you add a 30 inch deep bucket you have 1066 pounds at teh bucket tip.

One thing I have been thinking about doing but probably wont is to put 2 inch lift cyclinders in plact of the 1.75 inch stock ones. This simple change give you 30% more breakout / lift (plus a little more because of the constant weight of the bucket & loader arms) But it makes the loader lift ~24% slower. Combine a 300 psi pressure increase with the 2 inch cylinders and you are looking at 50% more break out / lift. Of course we are talking about potentially breaking something here. But from operating many small tractors with loaders, the KL1210 / LB1914 seem to have more safety margin for handling increased lift than many others I have used.

 

[cgraham]

That's pretty interesting, gladehound.

I need to know exactly where these two adjustments are, and which is which if I am to be able to alter them. Can the adjustments be made without plumbing in a guage?

Thanks,

Charlie

 

[gladehound]

If yours is like mine, the pressure relief adjustment for the loader is right next to your loader joy stick on the top of the Prince valve. There will be an adjustment screw and it is kept from moving by a nut. Unfortunately for me, I broke the adjustment screw by tightening the nut to much. So be careful. I think you should be able to adjust the loader pressure up by turning the adjustment screw clockwise until when you max out the loader, you hear the system relief open instead of the loader relief. Since I broke mine I haven't played with it much. I ordered a new pressure relief for about $20 but it hasn't arived.

The other pressure believe is on (I think) the valve body under the right side of the seat. I do not know if this is the screw type or the shim type of what. If you are going to mess with this, I think you need a gauge because if you go to high without knowing it you could break something (pump?, 3 pt cyclindar? loader? you name it).

Once I get the new loader relief I'll probably just adjust that up until I'm going off the system relief. But at some point I want to set the system relief and the loader relief both to open at 2300 psi with a gauge to have redundant protection for the pump which the manual says is rated for 2350 psi. However, i probably wont crack open the system valve without the help of someone who knows something about these valves. (not me).

Don't let the last Email full you. I'm good at the math. But I've never done any wrenching with hydaulics. As you read, I already broke the loader relief adjustment. I only broke the adjustment. The loader still works fine and is strong enough to lift a rear wheel (filled rears) with no implement on the back if I hook the corner of the bucket on a root or big rock.

I do intend to figure all this out (with the help of my friends!) and once I do I will post the details with pictures. But it's not a high priority right now since the tractor is doing what it needs to do. I'm digging out for a garage foundation and the loader is strong enough for that. I often have to back up a hair to break the bucket out but with the new tooth bar it really digs!

 

[cgraham]

Thanks for all the detail. Please do post any progress.

I'm trying to finish rebuilding my 1/2 mi. driveway right now, and don't want to take time out to fiddle with it until the job is finished and I know what I am doing. I'd hate to mess something up in the middle of the job!

Charlie.

 

[gladehound]

Charlie,

Will your loader currently lift a back tire if it gets caught on a rock or something? Just trying to get a feel for if you pressure is set too low.

Ron

 

[cgraham]

Lacking a rock, I wedged one corner of the blade against a large tree and tried to unplant it while in neutral. Much moaning and groaning, but not the slightest sign of a rear wheel lifting (or the tree for that matter).

My tachometer shows my highest rpm as 2400; the manual says 2600; either the tach is out of calib, or the throttle needs adjustment. I don't know that 2000 rpm would make a big difference in this situation, though.

Maybe the pressure IS set too low. But bear in mind that my tires are filled with foam, which weighs about 1000#, I think.

Charlie

 

[gladehound]

Well the last time I lifted a wheel (Satuday) I was at 2200 rpm. But mine will run at 2800 rpm WOT. Don't know what my rears are filled with. They were filled before I got it. Whatever it is, it leaves subtantial residue behind when it dries. Comes out a little sometimes when I add air to the tire because I am too lazy to rotate the valve to the top.

The rears of the LB1914 take around 5 cubic feet of fill. If you have 1000 pounds in there that foam is more dense than granite. Hard to believe. With winshield wiper fluid it adds around 300 pounds. Probably the lightest option. I've always heard that CaCl is the heaviest option and that is around 540 pounds.

I have lifted a rear even with my carry all, box and some chains all on the 3pt. That's about 200 pounds in addition to the filled tires. And the weight on the 3pt is further back. So regardless of what's in your tires, I think you should be able to lift one if the bucket corner is stuck on something. Now if the middle of the bucket is caught it will not lift the entire back end. I'd guess your pressure is a little low. But who knows, maybe the last owner of my tractor already turned up the pressure and mine is high. Need a gauge.

 

[kennyd]

You guy's are crazy if your adjusting the relief valve without a pressure gauge-something I only read mentioned once in this thread! A pressure gauge setup will only cost about $35.00 to setup, and MUST be used to properly the the pressure to spec. Playing with the relief valve just to gain more lift without knowing the pressure is a ticket to a expensive and possible dangerous failure.

All you need is a gauge that can read to 3000PSI, a short 1/4" hose, and a QD nipple that fits into one of your FEL QD ports, then operate the joystick to energize that QD sending the system into relief so you can read the pressure.

 

[SPYDERLK]

If yours is like mine, the pressure relief adjustment for the loader is right next to your loader joy stick on the top of the Prince valve. There will be an adjustment screw and it is kept from moving by a nut. Unfortunately for me, I broke the adjustment screw by tightening the nut to much. So be careful. I think you should be able to adjust the loader pressure up by turning the adjustment screw clockwise until when you max out the loader, you hear the system relief open instead of the loader relief. Since I broke mine I haven't played with it much. I ordered a new pressure relief for about $20 but it hasn't arived.

The other pressure believe is on (I think) the valve body under the right side of the seat. I do not know if this is the screw type or the shim type of what. If you are going to mess with this, I think you need a gauge because if you go to high without knowing it you could break something (pump?, 3 pt cyclindar? loader? you name it).

Be very careful here! The way you are describing it it sounds as if the system relief may be after the loader relief. It is that way on my Mahindra. The system is fed from the loader Power Beyond. If this is the case, and you turn up the loader relief your loader will operate on that new relief pressure. Your system relief will not come into play except when you use the fluid coming from the PB. On mine there is no relief at the pump. The 1st relief in the pressure line is the one in the loader valve. This means that if the loader relief is set too high it will blow the pump with no regard to the lower setting on the system relief. Turning the loader screw in 1 turn should be safe. And thats just a guess. you really need to gauge it .
larry

 

[gladehound]

Larry - You may be right. Looking at the hydraulic system schematic in the 1210 loader manual it shows the pump pulling from the reservoir and sending fluid first to the loader valve. The loader valve power beyond goes to the tractor system and then out to the fluid reservoir.

However, the diagram doesn't indicate where the auxilary flow divider valve is in the system. And in the instructions to set up the loader, the line going into the loader valve is from the pressure port of the auxillary flow valve. There is a control knob on the auxillary valve that has to be turned full clockwise to use the loader. The manual says that if the pressure port (the one the loader uses) is not in use (i.e. plugged) and the control knob on the auxillary valve is turned clockwise, the relief will operate. Therefore, if pressure to the loader gets too high the system relief will operate also. So it sounds like the system relief must be before the loader.

The LB1914 manual lists a pump safety relief operating specification at 2256 psi and a system relief operating specification at 2130-2230 psi. So does that mean with the loader there are three separate relief valves? One at the pump, one at the auxilary valve for the system and one at the loader? That's what it sounds like. If this is true than the pump relief valve opens if all else fails, but the system relief should open before that even if the loader relief fails to open.

Maybe on the weekend I will trace all the hydaulic lines and see where they go and see if I can find a relief valve on the pump as well.

And yes.... I am crazy

 

[SPYDERLK]

Larry - You may be right. Looking at the hydraulic system schematic in the 1210 loader manual it shows the pump pulling from the reservoir and sending fluid first to the loader valve. The loader valve power beyond goes to the tractor system and then out to the fluid reservoir.

However, the diagram doesn't indicate where the auxilary flow divider valve is in the system. And in the instructions to set up the loader, the line going into the loader valve is from the pressure port of the auxillary flow valve. There is a control knob on the auxillary valve that has to be turned full clockwise to use the loader. The manual says that if the pressure port (the one the loader uses) is not in use (i.e. plugged) and the control knob on the auxillary valve is turned clockwise, the relief will operate. Therefore, if pressure to the loader gets too high the system relief will operate also. So it sounds like the system relief must be before the loader.

The LB1914 manual lists a pump safety relief operating specification at 2256 psi and a system relief operating specification at 2130-2230 psi. So does that mean with the loader there are three separate relief valves? One at the pump, one at the auxilary valve for the system and one at the loader? That's what it sounds like. If this is true than the pump relief valve opens if all else fails, but the system relief should open before that even if the loader relief fails to open.

Maybe on the weekend I will trace all the hydaulic lines and see where they go and see if I can find a relief valve on the pump as well.

A relief at the pump would be wonderful - built in forgiveness of an error down the line. Im glad you will be tracing your system out well. Knowing how the various, and sometimes hidden, controls operate and interrelate is very important when changing anything. That aux flow divider valve sounds interesting and deserves a good look.
larry

 

[gladehound]

Got my new pressure relief catrige for the loader last night and installed it today. It seems you get about 800 pounds of break out and 400 pounds of full lift for each full turn of the adjustment screw (includes weight of bucket and loader arms). So it took 3/8 turn just to get the bucket off the ground empty and 3/4 of a turn to get it to full height. At around 3 turns total one of the other reliefs starts to kick in. I didn't get much more lift. Maybe an extra 100 or 200 pounds at break out. I can now barely lift a rear wheel if the corner of the bucket is caught and I have my rear blade on. I don't think it ever lifted are rear with the rear blade on before.

Digging the foundation a little more today. I weighed the dirt in a bucket. 13 pounds per gallon. I think that's about 100 pounds per cubic foot. I had some heaped bucket loads and it had no problem going to full hight so it can lift 900 pounds or so. So the pressure is probably a touch over the 1900 psi specification for the loader from the factory. I still frequently have to back out a touch to break the bucket out when digging in compacted dirt.

I'd like more break out but unless my system is set low, which it can't be by much, i'm not going to get more without bigger cyclindars.