Last WIll and Testament

[Sigarms]

Last week had to go up to Pennsylvania for my aunts funeral. She was "old", widowed, no children and lived by herself in an apartment.

I was also listed as the executor of her will, and although I live eight hours away, I took the responsibility for various reasons.

I am now learning all the "good" things about how the legal/state/federal systems "interact" with the executor which leads me to some general questions that I'm hoping to get feedback from experience (I also realize that state laws may vary, and I'm not expecting legal advice, just what experience has taught you).

Aunts checking account is in her name only, becomes the "estate trust". My wife and I have both our names listed on our checking account here in N.C, and my widower dad (his name/my name) on both our accounts up in Pa. (I actually have about 7 differents accounts with two banks in different states). Will this sufice if one of us (my dad/wife/myself) dies so the other person will still have access to those funds? I've always assumed yes.

Lucky for me my aunt had most of her funeral prepaid, minimal outstanding funeral fee due that I took care of, along with a "afterward funeral dinner" that I had to take care of along with another months of rent to "hold" her apartment with her belongings until I can figure out what to do.

Two years ago just got married for the first time in 38 years. Prior to that, my "will" was very simple, everything to my father and mother (at the time she was still alive) and some close friends pay a "minimal" fee to my father for some "expensive" toys (had pictures of all items, detail descriptions and what I "suggested" they (friends) should pay for them (also had gone over this with all the friends in question).

What I'm not worried about is what happens if I die, because everything will go to my wife, and vise versa. What I'm worried about now after seeing the some of the legal process and "pain in the butt factor" it can be for the executor is what happens if God forbid both my wife an I parish (sp?) at the same time?

My aunt didn't have alot of money, but I already see some "money issues" coming up from within my family as far as who's expecting what. Funny thing was some of these same people where no where to be found when some of my aunts bills needed to be paid (or anyone offering to help me with anything pertaining to the funeral). Nice thing is that my aunt was speciffic in her will on who got what, how assetts (sp?) where to be divided and who got those assetts. Funny as well that those people who were asking about the money are not listed in the will at all.

I want to try and make sure that in our (wifes and mine) will, there will be no money issues with family (I realize that this may be impossible, but I want to make the the executor our will won't get "crucified" for any decisions).

Everything that we own other than our new house and land we own outright, no outstanding bills.

We have no children at the time, that could change a well.

"Most" of our family lives up north, and the family that my wife has living in N.C "near" to us for the most part we wouldn't "handling" anything for us if we perished (sp?) due to common sense issues /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That means, like myself (as an executor), someone will have to travel, and unlike my aunts estate, ours might be more complicated due to assetts (sp?).

I did hire a lawyer up in Pennsylvania to help me (per my aunt), and still waiting to see if that was a good idea (per the pick). He had worked on my aunts will and I figure why change it now. I've e-mailed him some questions last week when I got home, planning on driving back up next week and want to "maximize" my time while I'm there and not waste any time on my end. Four days later I still have not heard from him.

Since I'm not expecting legal advice here, and you get what you pay for, I'm trying to stay away from asking those questions here /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So, thoughts or experiences? Anyone in my position as far as married life? How do you have you will "laid out"? Anyone else?

Anything will help at this point.

When I get this taken care of for my aunt, I intend to hire another laywer (another subject that I'm finding out is that some laywers are a pain in the butt to get an answer from)and have a jont will made up for both my wife and myself.

After re reading my post, apologies, my questions/thoughts/ideas not laid out "in the best fashion", just sort of an overwhelming "issue" that I've never had to experience before.

Thanks

 

[Bird]

Joe, I was executor of an uncle's will; pretty simply except that I had to fix up and sell a house. Even so, it took nearly a year to get everything done, including a final income tax return. I used the attorney who did his will. No one questioned anything I did, but I did keep detailed records of everything just in case. And I was fortunate in that he had lived nearby.

My wife had a widowed aunt die in California in 2004 and one of my wife's brothers in West Virginia was executor, so he had to fly out there several times to sell a house, dispose of a car, etc. He used both the attorney who did the will and an accountant to do the income tax returns, and I think he just finished the first of this month, after almost a year and a half.

As for bank accounts, ours are in my wife's and my name "either/or" instead of "and". Being neither an attorney nor an accountant, I can't say for sure, but I've been assured that is anything happens to one of us, the other one will have no problem with the accounts.

I have always been told to avoid "joint" wills because if one dies, the survivor can never change the will. We had wills drawn up by an attorney many years ago when all our parents were living, the children were very young, etc. So we had new ones made a little over a year ago. We have separate wills, but saying basically the same thing in each of them.

Incidentally, for older members like myself, I called several attorneys about doing our wills, living wills, etc. and of course price estimates were very high. Then I learned that AARP has a program in which certain attorneys in different areas participate, so we went to one of them. I think he was very good, very thorough, took all the time we wanted, and brought up a number of questions we had not thought of, and he was a lot cheaper than any of the others I'd called.

Sorry about your aunt's death, and good luck on getting everything done with a minimum of hassle.

 

[Sigarms]

Thanks Bird. I do get the impression that I won't have evrything done by the end of the month as I would of liked to had hoped.

As of now, the going rate for a "basic" will from some lawyers that I've talked to is around $500

Already keeping tract of receits.

Do you know when your brother from W.V flew for the estate, did he collect that money for reimbursment from the estate?

I'm not trying to make any money doing this, but at the same time, I don't want being an executor of a will to become a "money pit" for me (as well as I'm sure my aunt didn't want as well).

 

[Hakim]

Sigarms,

Like Bird, I have served as executor for several estates. They were are "simple" as estates go.

It does take some time, and probably more than you think it will.

You are entitled to reimbursement for any of the direct costs of settling the estate. In some States the state law defines a maximum you are entitled to as a percentage, something along the lines of 3-5%. Each state if different, so ask the lawyer /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

In some cases, especially if a child or family member handles a simple estate, they forgo the "fees."

There are various legal duties under law for an executor. For example, you need to secure the assets of the estate promptly, like a house, or autos. That may require changing locks, etc. Also, you'll need to switch the mail deliver over to yourself, or a mailbox service taken out just for that purpose.

You'll probably need a lawyer's assistance to obtain all necessary permissions, forms, etc. You will need power of attorney to do anything with bank accounts, collecting insurance proceeds, etc.

One small tip I can give you is to get enough copies of the Death Certificate. I believe the funeral home assists with this. Usually they'll give 2 or 3, but you have to pay for "extras." I'd get at least 6. If you have to go back later to get them from an official source, you'll be charged a higher rate, and things may be delayed.

One more thing that helped me a lot, was that I use a contact management program on my computer. I was able to keep track of EVERYTHING easily with this program. It was especially useful for duties that had specific dates, and for printing out 10 or 20 envelopes or letters, such as I did to notify credit card companies, etc. I never felt that the tasks were out of control.

In addition, since each record had a notepad, I was able to make timely notes on every thing I did, and even for conversations which I jotted down after they occurred. I use Goldmine, but ACT is also good, or any kind of simple CRM or "contact management" program. It is useful beyond just settling an estate. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Serving as executor is an interesting experience. If for some reason you cannot, or do not want to do it, you can resign as executor and a replacement will be appointed, either from one specified in the will or by the State.

There are many, many web sites with information about being an executor. Many books as well. I would do some Google keyword searches and get together a list of basic thigns to guide you early on, and to use as an guideline for your first meeting with a lawyer. It may help you answer questions of other family members as well.

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you are doing, and your family sounds like they will raise no objections or issues to complicate matters.

Best of luck.

"THINGS TO DO AFTER THE DEATH OF A LOVED ONE

Within first 24 hours:
1. Determine whether any of decedent's property needs to be safeguarded, such as a motor vehicle, vacant house, etc.

2. Ensure that proper funeral arrangements have been made.

Within two weeks:
3. Locate the decedent's letter of instruction, if any.
4. Locate the original Will and read it.
5. Locate important records such a titles, deeds and life insurance policies.
6. Make appointment with an attorney to discuss estate.
7. Notify life insurance company(ies) of the death and request claim(s) forms.
8. If mortgage insurance on home exists, notify insurance company of death.
9. Determine if any bills must be paid immediately.
10. Contact creditors who are demanding immediate payment and notify creditor of death.
11. Notify credit card companies of death.
12. Cancel credit cards on which decedent was the only signer.
13. Obtain bill for last illness from hospital.
14. Order at least six (6) death certificates from the funeral home.
15. Contact Post Office to make any necessary changes in delivery of mail.

Within one month:
16. Notify Social Security of the death, and any other organization paying on retirement or paying an annuity upon death.

17. Gather together and organize financial documents:
a. Bank accounts owned by decedent.
b. Mutual funds owned by decedent.
c. Brokerage accounts owned by decedent.
d. Certificates of Deposit in decedent's name.
e. Stock Certificates registered in decedent's name.
f. Any promissory notes under which decedent was entitled to receive payment.
g. Titles to Motor Vehicles and/or Mobile Homes that are listed in decedent's name.
h. Deeds to real property owned by decedent.
i. Any appraisals of jewelry or other valuable personal property owned by decedent.

18. Gain access to and inventory any safe deposit box.
19. Obtain the account balance on mortgages, loans, checking and savings accounts as of the date of death.
20. Bring original Will, financial documents, balances, death certificates, and inventory of safe deposit box to meeting with attorney.
21. Notify CPA, accountant or bookkeeper of the death.

Within two to six months:

22. If automobiles are held in joint tenancy, change motor vehicle titles to reflect ownership only by the surviving joint tenant.

23. If stocks or bonds are held in joint tenancy, contact stockbroker to change records to reflect ownership only by the surviving joint tenant."

-- Provided Under Educational & Fair Use
Provisions of US Copyright Law

 

[Bird]

Joe, it sounds as if attorney fees in your area are about the same as here. However, the one I found through AARP charged $315 total for both of us; wills, living wills (or directive to physicians), etc. And I just checked and found that was on 3/29/2005.

As for what my wife's brother did, I have no personal knowledge and he hasn't said, but I've no doubt that he did charge the estate for his travel and any other expenses. I think you're entitled to reimbursement for any and all expenses that you would not have had except for doing the job of executor. And yes, I was reimbursed for my expenses when I was executor of my uncle's will. In fact, many wills, including his, specifically permit charging a fee for your services if you wish.

 

[DUMBDOG]

If you really want to keep things simple in your case "living trust".

This will eliminate a lot of the court items and once it is done the use of an attorney is almost eliminated as well.

The only item required is someone, with common sense, to administer the trust once you pass on.

 

[Sigarms]

Hakim

Thanks for the information.

I had fourteen copies of the death certificate produced for my use, and her mail already is being forwarded to my address in N.C.

Some of the other points you made are related to some of the questions that I have for my (aunts) lawyer in Pennsylvania that I'm still waiting for anwsers.

Going through all of her "paperwork" to see if I missed anything pertaining to bills/medicade/insurance...

Getting to the safty deposit box at the bank was "sort of an ordeal" on such short notice without anything "official", but it's a small town and most everyone knows each other and through time, effort, phone calls and a last minute death certificate, was able to at least know what I will be looking at when I go back.

I was only able to spend two business days in Pa for the funeral and while there, tried to gather as much info from everyone in a position that I had to deal with (laywer, bank manager, funeral home director).

 

[DannyD]

Perarranged funerals are the best thing since sliced bread. When dad died the hospital called the home, they picked up the body, he was ready the next day. We paid for the casket spray and the announcement...........period, done.

As for mom, I am now the executor, second signor on her checking account and savings/cd's etc. I have the key to the lock box..........bro's and sis not happy about that. The house is all 4 names, Mom, me and the others. No problems there when we sell it.

Everything is in the will, period. The balance of what is in the house will be taken by those that gave it, and any special bequests will be taken care of in private letters. The rest and the house will be sold, most likely at auction. I also have power of attorney.

 

[Sigarms]

Thats what my parents had done.

My father actually came down to visit on a layover to do some golfing in S.C the day I got back from Pa, so I'm going to "pick his brain" (although I joke with him that his minds getting old and not sure when I'll have to commit him /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and see how he set up his living trust.

He mentioned that they used a company out of Texas that "specializes" in this and I knew that both him and my mom were very happy with the cost and experience.

 

[Sigarms]

If by lock box you mean "depost box" at the bank, I suggest that if you have ANYTHING of value in that box, remove it now while your mom is alive.

Of course, not sure of the law, if both you and your mothers name are on the lock box, "perhaps" you can remove items when she becomes deceased. My aunt was the only name on the deposit box, thus, NOTHING could be removed from that deposit box.

Anything of value will be determined by your state after they do an inventory of the deposit box.

The bank manager was nice and worked with me due to my living location and short notice on coming into the bank.

 

[MikePA]

Regarding your role as executor...Three words of advice after being the executor my mom's estate.

1. Allow a lawyer in PA handle it. Charge the expenses to the estate.
2. Do not take an executor's fee.
3. Patience.

1. When my mom died, my 3 sisters 'encouraged' me to handle it myself. I bought several books, searched the Internet and deciced there was no way I'm am doing this on my own, and I lived in the same county as my Mom and had handled her taxes for the 10 years before her death. Since you're in another state, I really emphasize this. My mom did not have a complicated estate, basically savings. She had sold her home years before. Even so, the more I saw what was involved, the happier I was I hired a lawyer.

Doing it yourself will require a lot more time than using a lawyer. This increases the odds you will want to take a fee, which can cause other headaches. See next item.

2. Only one of my sisters had been an executor, so she knew how much time it took. If your aunt's relatives don't know how much time it can take, they can become offended at you 'taking more than your fair share', i.e., a part of the estate as a beneficiary as well as a fee. Hiring a lawyer solves this problem.

3. It took over a year for the final estate distributions to be completed and the final tax returns to be filed.

 

[Sigarms]

Just from perseonal experiece from my father in law.

If the mothers house is in all four names of the siblings, make sure no one has a lien or legal "issues" to speak of.

Long story, his mother is still in a nursing home, house not to be sold until her death, but...I wouldn't want to be in my FIL shoes (seems that the people that have the most common sense and responsibility always have to "pick up the pieces" for the relatives that have no common/financial sense).

 

[RonR]

Some random thoughts. I am not an attorney, nor do I work in that field; this is personal experience and info based on our wills. I think it is general enough to apply across state lines. Hope it helps.

Your estate will likely total more $$$$ than you believe it does!

When first spouse dies, if things are in joint tenancy with right of survivorship (JTROS), everything listed that way passes to the surviving spouse. For most of us, it is not an issue when the first dies. But when #2 dies, the estate can be over the threshhold and trigger more taxes. Our lawyer suggested having some or all of each spouse's stuff go to the children with death of 1st spouse. That way, when #2 dies, the estate left is below threshhold. The threshhold is changing yearly, so I won't post what I think it currently is.

You really ALL need to meet with some expert and do a will or trust or whatever you believe is best in your case. Wife's granddad didn't believe in lawyers (too expensive!), and had all his assets in his name only. When he died as a poor farmer in the early 80s WITHOUT a will, guess what, state law required a lawyer be in the picture and court assigned co-executors. The lawyer took like 6% of EVERYTHING! Land, farm machinery, house, savings--Grandpa could have saved his family THOUSANDS if he wasn't such a dunce!

Wife's great uncle, who never married, did have a will--and he'd done very well investing, tried his best to pass his stuff down before he died, but his estate taxes were still over $.5M!

Have kids or plan to? You really need to provide both financially and physically for them if they are young. You need to pick at least 2 people that are acceptable to you and AGREE to raise your young children if you both die at the same time. We chose not relatives, but close friends at the time we did our wills. Both sets of grandparents were upset at the time--they said "we're willing to raise them if you're gone." Our response was loving, but stern "Folks, you don't need teenagers in your home when you are 70-80". They understood, and as it is part of them have passed already.

So after you get someone to agree to raise them, you need to provide FUNDS to get them through college for the people raising them. We had our lawyer set it up like we wanted. I didn't want the step-parents to have to go to someone to buy the kids shoes, but I didn't want them to be able to squander the money either.

Thankfully, our kids are almost through college now, so we need to update our wills. They don't need physical parents so much now, but WOW, do they need someone to guide them with $$$$$$.

Turning a huge estate over to 20-30 yr olds is TROUBE. We set ours to they get living expenses and some special needs $$$$ over time through a trust established when we die, so they have to be 35 before they get the bulk.

Our attorney also added a "ne'er do well" clause--if one or more of the children have not demonstrated their good ability to handle money (foolish spending, drugs, no job, etc), the trustee is NOT to distribute $$$$ to them beyond basic needs until they can demonstrate responsibility!

Now that our kids are mostly resposible, at least in the law's eyes, we need to update our will. They are at an age where they could direct some of the spending, but I've already verbally discussed with them "if something happens to both of us, either go to Charlie, our CPA and friend, for money advice, or go to someone that he recommends."

As I said, random thoughts; hope they help ya.

ron

 

[Sigarms]

Mike, thanks.

Before my aunt had passed away, both her and I already had taken care of what needed to be done "money wise" (what money she had, I took care of) a couple of years ago so I could do her wishes (even though at the time, I didn't know that she listed me as the executor). My aunt and mother were very close, and my aunt trusted me, and I would never betray that trust, nor if I did, could I live with myself.

Between her belongings, bank accounts and any isurance, we are not talking about much, which works in my favor per the family. Aunt's will also stipulates that all assetts (sp?) to be divided between four god children, one of whom is myself.

Pretty "cut and dry" from what I can see.

 

[Sigarms]

Ron, yes you've given me something to think about.

At this point due to no children, I'm more concearned over with some "particular" people not being able to "touch" any assetts as well to make sure that people like who I was in the "Big Brothers" program (my "little brother") does "see something" becuase without that will, most likely he wouldn't.

Bottom line is if something happened to both my wife and myself, our parents would be involved first. Time goes by and parents are not there, then will have to re evaluate who is (as far as being the executor).

 

[EddieWalker]

This wont apply to your situation, but maybe this could be useful to others.

My parents are from Canada. The came here in the early 60's and awhile later, my Dad became a US Citizen. Mom put it off until a few years ago.

When they retired and starting re-organizing their lives, they found out that if my Dad passed away first, she would have to pay taxes on everything they had!!

Mom got off her but and became a US Citizen. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Eddie

 

[RonR]

Weird things can happen!

I found out several years after my Mother died that she had had a son out of wedlock 3 yrs prior to her marriage to my Dad. Baby was adopted out and I've never located him, if he is still alive.

Had I know about this, I would have saved him his third of her assets. As it is, as executor, I had no knowledge, and Mom didn't leave information, if she even knew where he was, so I'm clean as far as legally concerned (I think).

I disagree about taking no compensation. Mom lived 40 miles from us. It took a lot of gas ($$$) to go back & forth for all the trips. I kept receipts and took my expenses out. And I paid expenses for my sister's expenses when she helped as well.

ron

 

[Bird]

You're getting lots of good information, Joe, and then you'll still find that some things may be different in Pennsylvania. And there are many legal technicalities that I'll probably never understand. For example, when I was executor of my uncle's estate, the Texas probate court issued "Letters Testamentary" and that was what I needed to get into bank accounts, transfer title to motor vehicles, sell the house, etc. But when my Dad died several years later, the court issued a "Minument of Title" for Mother to transfer the title to a mobile home and motor vehicles.

When my Dad died over 9 years ago, he had not pre-arranged a funeral, except that he and Mother had bought lots in the cemetery where they were to be buried. However, he did have a life insurance policy and the funeral home took care of filing the insurance claim as well as obtaining the death certificates. Of course the funeral director is my son-in-law, but he said they do that for everyone. So Mother did have him pre-arrange her funeral, and there was little to do and very little expense this past week for hers. As Hakim said, the funeral home will obtain the death certificates: $20 for the first one and $4 for each additional copy this past week.

 

[midlf]

In my experience 6 death certificates are not enough. Get a least 12. When my dad died some item required my mother's death certificate, and that was 10 years after she died. Fortunately my dad was VERY organized and he had a copy and we knew where it was.

One other thing that can really really help is information from the person you are the executor for. In our case my father had written out a 26 page letter listing all his assets, insurance, personal property and where to find the papers and who to contact. This was very helpful. It also had some good stories as he listed why he had kept various personal items for a great many years. (And he still complained about all the baseball cards his mother had sent to the war paper drive when he was off on his WWII government sponsored trip around the world.)

 

[RonR]

Good point about the instructions.

We've finally put together notebooks that contain all the bank info, insurance papers, etc.

Makes it easier for us to manage also.

ron