Largest hp HST available?

/ Largest hp HST available?
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Honestly, that makes no "business sense" to me.

Montana, "new" brand, not sure about parts, not sure about dealer support, not in the U.S market "long enough" to know about "quality" (and this can be "perceived" I realize).

All things equal, I'd go with a more "known name" any day if price is equal.

How do you expext to gain market share by this type of price structure?
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #22  
It may be the Kubota dealer has a floorplan coming due, or needs to move this unit for other reasons or simply he is pricing aggressive. Who knows why. In my area Kubota dealers command list and won't come off list. Of course, they have had little competition over the years. I am sure they will start making better deals for the customers soon.

Some of the differences in the two tractors are that the Montana has some standard features that are options but still 2K is a bit wide.

The Montana has your choice of tires Titan R1 or R4 no extra, 2 sets of rear remotes, draft standard and other things that are options on the Kubota.

Having said this and my biased towards the Montana I do understand your question. Not knowing the prices of either and other variables it makes it hard to say if the Montana is overpriced or the Kubota is just a great deal.

Good luck!

Maka
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #23  
<font color="green">
I found out the same thing shopping for the 4th and 5th major brands. The 1 and 2 major brands are in fact sometime cheaper.
</font>

swapwap & Sigarms, pricing seems to be very regional, and even varies wildly within a region between dealers of the same brand. I don't get it but it just is that way. Heck, I got a Kubota becuase it was the lowest price I could find and when I went back to get another tractor it turned out that a more expensive New Holland was the lowest priced machine. In each case, I had my choice of tires, got free delivery, free pickup/delivery for warrenty work, but NO free hat in either deal!!!

I keep reading about Brand X is cheaper than JD, Kubota or New Holland . . . and then something pops up that shows exactly the opposite. Heck there was a thread last summer where a TBN member got a New Holland TC30 for less than the price of a brand new Jinma with fewer features.

Honestly I don't believe any of the pricing as accurate simply because all the statements get broken too often. Not that I am calling anyone a liar, I believe that the people who posted got the deals they claimed. What I don't believe is that Kubota is $2000 more than Kioti or that JD is $2000 more than John Deere or that New Holland is $2000 more than Mahindra. The reason is because I've got too many P.M.s from people on pricing where they have exactly the opposite experience.

To me it probably boils down to a DOZEN different factors with pricing. How good of a negotiator are you, what mood was the sales rep in the day you started, did you deal with a real decision maker or someone who had to get the deal approved, did dealer X wake up on the wrong side of the bed in the morning, is the local market competitive, does the dealer understand the competition, does the dealer think you are just out shopping but not buying, etc . . .
 
/ Largest hp HST available?
  • Thread Starter
#24  
Bob and Maka

Points well taken.

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the "tractor business".

What I can do as a consumer though is to shop for the best deal that I can find.

What I also look for though is overal customer service, availability, and education on the product line.

All of us in business are in business to make money, and if not, we might as well just shut our doors.

Just surprised by the difference in price.

Thanks
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #25  
Just curious...what is the main reason for wanting an HST? Ever considered a hydro/power shuttle? HSTs are definetly nice, but you might be able to get a bigger tractor for the same dollars in a hydro/power shuttle version, if that will suit you. Just something to consider.
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #26  
<font color="blue">
What I can do as a consumer though is to shop for the best deal that I can find. </font>

Speaking as a tractor buyer since I have no businesses related to the tractor industry, all I can do it relate my experiences to you.

First, I only consider tractors from dealerships that are well established, have a great reputation, have a fully staffed shop with factory trained or certified repair people. I do that because I buy tractors that I expect to last for a long time, but I also expect that anything mechanical can and will break so I want QUALIFIED people who are TRAINED and KNOW what the heck they are doing when my tractor is broken. A big parts department is also high on my list. As is a lot full of implements and tractors of various styles & sizes. All those things tell me that the dealer is invested heavily in his business. So I go in and look at the dealer. If the dealer doesn't have my approval I don't even bother to talk to a sales guy.

I am really **** about my research, I generally know, with only some modest level of doubt, what I want. I don't claim to be an expert, but if I know I want a small frame tractor I won't let him upsell me to a left over large frame unit at a great price. I make out my TASK list well in advance and I figure out what the tractor will be doing and how much it will be doing of each task. For example if the tractor will be used for mowing, bush hogging, tilling, and FEL work then I figure out that it takes 3 hours to mow, I mow each week for 32 weeks so I will put about 96 hours a year on the machine mowing. Then I look at bush hogging and realize that will be done about 3 times a year, at 4 hours each time, so that is 12 hours per year. Then I look at tilling and realize that a 1/2 acre garden is going to be tilled 2 times a year, and it will take a couple hours each so that is 4 hours a year. And so on . . .

Now knowing that I am not perfect I know the above is only ESTIMATES but it is a decent baseline of tasks. So now I can look for a machine that will do those things. So I look at bush hogging and realize that is really a fairly small job each year so I know I don't need get the biggest heaviest tractor to hog the fields. But I see that mowing is the majority of what I do so I lean my decision criteria heavily on that task. Now if logging was your big job then you'd have different criteria, but you get the idea of how to estimate.

With my estimates, I will look on the internet for machines that might fit my criteria, but to be blunt, I'm only going to look at the brands I can buy in my area, and that have dealers that met my criteria above. So while Brand X may have the "perfect" tractor, if the dealer is a used car lot with tractors as a side job, then I'm sorry but that tractor brand is going to be overlooked because the dealer is someone I won't trust. So I have my 2, or 3 or whatever number of good dealers in my area, so I look at only those brands. And within those brands I look only at the tractors that are going to suit my needs. And then I go into the dealers to talk.

When I go to buy a tractor, I am a SERIOUS buyer. My checkbook is in my hand or in my pocket. I am going in to buy, they darn well better take me seriously, if they don't I walk. Now I've done this a few times so now I can do it over the phone with two different dealers, but both know if I call for a tractor or implement, they will make or lose the sale in that phone call. I also don't get emotionally attached to any brand. I will tell you that I love my little New Holland, but I also know that a Kubota would do the same job! So if the NH guy screws up, there will be a Kubota or a Deere or some other brand in my garage. In fact that is how I got the NH because the Kubota guy screwed up.

I suggest you do research, limit your choices to only the ones from good dealers, be realistic about pricing, and be serious when you go into the dealer, but make sure they know you are serious, make sure they know you will write the check on the spot, but also make sure they know they will see your rear end walking out the door to their competitor's store if they don't treat you right. Tell them you want to develop a long term relationship, that you want to be able to trust them for service, for future implement sales, etc.
 
/ Largest hp HST available?
  • Thread Starter
#27  
Osconda

Reason for the HST is due to my father.

He lives up in Pa, 72 years old. My mom passed away 2 years ago. He's by himself.

Two years ago I got married. Just bought a house with close to 40 acres. My dad now finally likes to come and stay with us . He has fun "puttering" around the house and land, and I have at least 7 acres to mow that I'm currently doing by push mower.

My dad has an old wheel horse he uses up in Pa for his 3 acres. He likes HST (which his wheel horse isn't) and any type of "clutch working" would be hard on him.

There is more than a good chance that my father will move to N.C to live with me (my wife and I bought the house with this intention, plus the fact we love it! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

The tractor will not only be for me, but more important, it will give my father somthing to do which he'll love to do (at least, mowing that 8 acres).

From prior post on theis board, I'm swaying to go over the 30 hp tractor that I originally looked at (Mr. Bob had somthing to do with that as well /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

The tractor is as much for me as it is for my father.

Of course I'll have to have him test drive it before I buy it.

Thks
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #28  
I went up to the local Farmtrac /landtrac dealer today and they only have 2 models with hst a 39 HP and a 33 HP just as Bob said. He said they are supposed to come out with some new models early this summer. I also told heim about this site and he said he would like to check it out. Will see if he does. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #29  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the "tractor business". )</font>

Sigarms, if your name means anything, you understand quality very well....no-nonsense, no-excuses, works-everytime quality. The kind that makes a difference. The kind that is a bargain in the long run.

If this is true, why are you considering anything other than the Big 3? They've got the track record and you don't have the time or resources to experiment (I'm assuming things here /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif). Save $1000 and risk buying a problem. Save $2500 and risk buying a headache. You need something that works to help your Dad (hat's off to you,sir). Not something that breaks down for odd reasons and makes your Dad feel bad because he thinks he broke it. Life's too short for that.

Speaking as a recent convert from both green and blue, the kind of quality we're talking about comes with in the box with every Kubota. It sounds like Kubota offers enough HP in an HST to meet your needs (or did I miss something?).

Use the same good sense in choosing your tractor that you use in choosing your guns and you'll be alright.
[/soapbox /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif]
FWIW
Bob
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #30  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( They've got the track record and you don't have the time or resources to experiment (I'm assuming things here ). Save $1000 and risk buying a problem. Save $2500 and risk buying a headache. You need something that works to help your Dad (hat's off to you,sir). Not something that breaks down for odd reasons and makes your Dad feel bad because he thinks he broke it. Life's too short for that. )</font>
George Sanders had a line in the movie, "All About Eve" which went thus: "You have a point, and idiotic one, but a point."
Now, I won't go so far as to say your point is idiotic, but not complete. All one has to do is go to any of the fourms for the tractor brands you mention and find that people have indeed had those brands "break down for odd reasons,"
Save a $1000 and risk buying a problem by buying one of the Big Three? Not realistic all the time is it?
John
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #32  
Just remember, One time a day Kubota was not included in that big 3 description. Alot of people took the risk and experimented with Kubota. Today Kubota makes a very good tractor just like they did years ago. The off brands actually have alot more to prove, just like Kubota did years ago.
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #34  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The JD dealer just plain pissed me off. Don't badmouth other equipment lines. )</font>

I agree! My local Massey/New Holland dealer talked himself out of ever selling me a tractor by telling me I should have bought 2 of my cheap Chinese Rhino International tractors so I would have parts. This was the owner, not a parts monkey. All I went out there for was to get an oil filter, which ANY parts store carries. Ended up getting my filter at NAPA, he didn't even want to look.

The dealers that bad mouth other brands feels threatened by those brands. They fear they are a better value or better quality and think they must down talk them to try to make theirs look better. These same type of dealers probably are asking too much for their premium/superior tractors to start with. If their tractors are of good quality and are priced right, they don't need to do any bad mouthing, the tractor will do the talking! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think you are going to see more and more of the big 4 dealers (jd, massey, new holland, and kubota) start being concerned with the "off brand" tractors. There's always been off brand tractors, so why worry? Well a couple of things come to mind. Some of the new kids on the block or making some pretty good waves in the pool now days, such as Montana, Kioti, etc.. They are making tractors as good or better then comparable big 4 models. They are building a dealer network and trying to provide service for their tractors. They are offering incentives to buy their tractors, such as lower pricing, 0% financing, more standard features, and 3 year warr. I believe these smaller new tractor companies will continue to grow and get market share and acceptance, as long as they can continue to deliver a quality tractor for a better price and improve their dealer/service network.

I welcome the competition, that will make ALL tractors better and less expensive! Some day we may be saying Big "10" /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

BTW, I'm not a tractor dealer of any kind, just a tractor owner. I own a Montana 4540 and Rhino 4134. I like the "big 4" tractors, but I'm open to the other "off brand" tractors just as well.
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #35  
Did you look at the CK30HST from Kioti. Net PTO is about 24HP a little less then what your looking for. I've just purchased one and I'm very happy with it. I was looking to purchase a JD or Kubota, but I ended up with Kioti. The Kioti was a better made tractor for the money. Just my thoughts.

regards
Glen
 
/ Largest hp HST available?
  • Thread Starter
#36  
Glenn

Actually the CK30 was my first "pick".

After posting here about my property and uses for the tractor, I changed gears (no pun intended) and started looking at the larger sizes.

Was going to go to a Kioti DK45S, but after talking to my father, HST is the way I want to go.

Now if Kioti made the DK45 in HST, it might be a "no brainer", although from other posts in the Kioti forums, at this point, I might be glad I didn't go with the DK45S.

Thanks
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #37  
Sigarms, just curious here, but have you narrowed down the search any? In an earlier post you mentioned a Kubota L3830HST for $2000 less than a Montana, but didn't mention if you are considering the Kubota? Or if you are looking at other brands?

At this point maybe some of the guys who have specific models you might be interested could help, but you'd really need to narrow down the choices to some of the brands/models you are seriously considering.
 
/ Largest hp HST available?
  • Thread Starter
#38  
Bob

Looking hard at the L3830 and would like to take a look at the Montana line (Kubota was "first" on my list until I read about the Montana line).

The Montana looks small for it's size, but after thinking about it, to me, smaller is actually better (although I could be wrong).

I need to get down and look at that dealer.

You points about a "stocking dealer" just became more important to me. Not sure how "big" this Montana dealer is, and that will play a big part in my thought process on a new tractor.

Stopped at another JD dealer, and they remind me of VW dealers. They "know" they have the best products, and they always want to remind you of it. Think JD is out.


Thanks
 
/ Largest hp HST available? #39  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Now if Kioti made the DK45 in HST, it might be a "no brainer", although from other posts in the Kioti forums, at this point, I might be glad I didn't go with the DK45S. )</font>
This statement is one of the things that I dislike about forums. Every tractor brand mentioned in any of these forums has problem posts from time to time, and readers shouldn't assume that all of that model are having the problems. Most of what has been posted as a problem with the DK45S has been preparation, not any mechanical shortcomings.
If someone mentions that a Kubota L3830 has a problem with the 3pt hitch raising, I don't assume that all L3830 models are no good and that I'd better steer clear of it.
I think people often either misread, or misunderstand the problems that are posted on this forum at times, and then possibly cheat themselves out of a good tractor.
No offense intended here, but saying you might be glad you didn't go with the DK45S over problems that were not the MFG fault is unfair to the brand and users who may not have read the true facts of the posts.
John
 
/ Largest hp HST available?
  • Thread Starter
#40  
John

No offense taken.

You are 100% correct.

In my defense, I stated "I might be glad".

A manufacturer is only as good as a dealer supporting the line, the the dealer is only as good as a manufacturer "standing behind" thier product.

The one nice aspect of the internet now is that any "issues" that arise can become known quickly, and information exchanged between consumers (such as this website).

This can lead into a whole new discussion on "perceived quality" vrs "actual quality" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John, how come Kioti does not make the DK45 in HST?

The reason I ask is because I would be interested in this type of product.

Thanks
 

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