Land Rovers/Range Rovers

[inveresk]

I owned a 1972 Land Rover series 2 which I bought for about $2k and which I sold three years later for the same money. Didn't give me any problems although the diesel engine was underpowered. Defenders, the Workhorses of the Land Rover badge, are good, robust no frills vehicles. The others I regard as urban offroaders and reliability is definitely an issue with the badge.

I had a Toyota Landscruiser during my years in the Middle East which came to a dead stop every time it went through a puddle. That wasn't often - it pretty much only rained in February and March - but it jaundiced my view on the vehicle. Any rough service vehicle should be wadi, creek or puddle proof and these certainly weren't. That was some years ago now and I'd trust a diesel Landcruiser in this day and age although for looks I don't think you can beat the old Defenders.

Best 4 x 4 I had was by far a 1992 Mercedes G wagon. Tough as panzer tanks, they're available here only in the 5 litre gas version and guzzle fuel like a cruiseship but they're mostly sold in europe as diesels. Mine was a GD 300, straight six, 3 litre, normally aspirated, slow but economical and with good towing ability and 3 diff. locks. I sold mine for about $15k before moving to Canada and wish now I'd taken it with me even though it was right hand drive. I've made the decision to get another, probably one of the older 5 litre gas versions, although I have dabbled with the idea of importing a diesel from Germany. If I do go for gas, I'll likely convert to propane to make running costs cheaper.

Never owned a Jeep although I really liked the diesel liberty I hired for a couple weeks and I drove a Grand Cherokee (which I also liked) for a couple weeks during a house swop in 1999.

All I'll say about Hummers is that a cod piece is a lot cheaper.

 

[D7E]

As an englishman of origin i would have to say yes"to a point" Early ones were ruggeg enough but gassers were trouble and early diesels could be even worse "sometimes " but alluminiun body was great and grip is 1 in a million .
Middle aged landy's are the best 90's 2.5 turbo diesel turbo is unbeatable and many companies used it in "Spra-coupe" type sprayers and powerpacks and generators and is bullet proof and if you know them will out perform the diesel japs ,My favoufite was a "96" Defender 90 (short wheel base) with a little pump adjustment ...My god would they pull for a 2.5 turbo diesel....VW could learn a lot ,Later TD5's (5 cylinder) are supposed to be all that but i never found it ,Electronic fuel pumps and electronic throttle control even when you were holding your foot steady sounded like you were stamping up and down on the throttle,Like anything "Technology got the better of them" But the vehicle its'self will last for-ever and like i said the grip (with right tyres) is unmatchable and they have a big following now in the 4X4 /Hill climbing circuit and "modifying " Becuuse in britain you cannot buy any brand of parts cheaper (genuine) And so many mods are available (Chrome/Alluminum and lift kits ) Any thing you can do to an american truck ,Down fall was the cab ..it has not changed since the 50's and even me at 5ft7 and 155 pounds ,I smash my elbows against the window when i turn the wheel and the windscreen is like watching a widescreen tv (Like an army tank) but as a machine ...Unbeatable "Thats why they never changed them much" its a work truck not a car?

 

[WVaHillbilly]

I have 1993 Chevy Work truck 4x4 which is very handy around the farm and does everything I need to do,but we as a family have a 7 seater 1999 Discovery Series II with a little over 100,000 miles on it which acts as a family car and my SUV for off roading here in WV. My Rover had the rear air suspension auto lift which I recently done away with and converted to :
http://www.oldmanemu.com/ heavy duty shocks/springs and on all 4 springs. We really like the Discovery but I have had to put some $$$ in it along the way,my biggest concern about the Land Rover Discovery and Range Rovers are to many trinkets/electronic gadgets that can go wrong IE: The security system quit working a couple of years ago and disabled the electronics thus would not allow me to start the vehicle,I had to hire a roll back and have it hauled 80 miles to the dealer to have repaired,I had to install a new mass air flow sensor and the front axle went out,why I do not know,but this vehicle had been a lease vehicle before I bought it 5 years ago, a friend of mine found a front axle with 18,000 miles on it out of a wrecked Land Rover.The Discovery is a very capable vehicle off the road, but I do admire Jeeps for the simplicity of them,like my 1993 Chevrolet 4x4 work truck,they will get the job done and less gadgets to worry about fixing.

 

[jdbower]

Why don't the British make TVs? Because they can't figure out how to make them leak oil! I think that joke is mostly geared towards Jags rather than Land Rovers, but they're both Ford now anyway...

I've found that a lot of the modern 4WD systems are important to learn about before they're useful. Most are geared towards being able to save the typical driver in on-road situations like hitting a patch of ice at high speeds. The side effect is that in default mode my system will bring my SUV to a halt when I'm crawling around in the snow. But when I turn off ESP (and Toyota's VSC is an older version of this algorithm) it works like a champ. I've also never found the need for physical lockers with this system since it's designed to electronically shunt power where it needs to go and make them unnecessary, but I also generally only drive in the snow every so often so I'm hardly a hard-core off-roader compared to some other owners I've known.

I also like the Jeep Wrangler as a dedicated rock crawler (an G500, H1 or Unimog would be nice, but those are expensive toys just to abuse!). I've heard the new Toyota FJ is to be the successor to the old Land Cruiser but I haven't taken a close look at it. If you're mostly looking for a family vehicle that can also offroad a bit you may have other priorities to consider like seating. Whatever you choose, I'd recommend finding a forum for that model so you can learn the ins and outs of how they've designed the 4WD system. I'd also check you favorite offroad modding shops and see what they carry, most of what I've seen is Jeep-related.

 

[ToadHill]

I owned a 1960 Rover for several years. The real model with the spare tire bolted to the hood. Aluminum body which didn't rust or carode. Top speed was 50 with the hammer down, but it would pull a train. No matter what type of driving you did it got 12 mpg. Rear bumper had a 4" hole in it to run a pto shaft and the owners manual described all the implements you could buy for it, such as plow, rake, baler ect.

My wife loved it, I put a big I beam bumper on the front and she said that no one ever tried to cut her off or intimidate her when she drove that beast.

It did have a habit of developing rust holes in the brake lines. I sold it to my wife's friend and they still have it in their barn while going thru a restoration.

By the way when I rebuilt the engine, I didn't want to wait for weeks to get main bearings from England and in a cross reference book I found some bearings for an old Massey Ferguson tractor that fit perfectly.

 

[ultrarunner]

For what it's worth... Rover was owned by BMW just prior to being owned by Ford... my brother is able to source some parts from BMW when Land Rover had them back ordered.

His first Range Rover had several problems resulting in Range Rover offering to swap outright his for a one year newer model... it has been a couple of years and he could not be happier with the new one and also the fact that Rover stepped up to the plate and offered to make the swap at no cost to him.

 

[orezok]

Why don't the British make TVs? Because they can't figure out how to make them leak oil!

...and why do the British drink warm beer??? Because they have Lucas refrigerators! If you've ever owned a 60's Brit car, you'll understand.

 

[ToadHill]

One of the best Brit jokes I ever saw was a picture of a BBC newscaster saying " The oil slick causing problems on the White Cliffs of Dover has been corrected. The gentleman responsible has agreed to mover his Triumph."

 

[SnowRidge]

...and why do the British drink warm beer??? Because they have Lucas refrigerators! If you've ever owned a 60's Brit car, you'll understand.

Ah yes, Lucas, the Prince Of Darkness.

 

[dbdartman]

Ah yes, Lucas, the Prince Of Darkness.

The rest of the saying:

There's only one rule with Lucas Electrics: BE HOME BEFORE DARK!

 

[gsganzer]

My vote is for the Toyota landcruiser for those that have the money to spend and the Toyota 4runner for those that need something more modest.

 

[RayH]

My vote is for the Toyota landcruiser for those that have the money to spend and the Toyota 4runner for those that need something more modest.

Not to change the subject, Ahhh, the heck with it, Enough with the Brits, lets talk Japanese.
The new Landcruisers are cracking apart. The big talk in the off road community is the fact that the new LCs are developing stress cracks in the firewall from off roading and Toyota is no help. Thats alot of money to spend on something that boasts its off road capability just to have it develope cracks after a couple years.

 

[czechsonofagun]

Not to change the subject, Ahhh, the heck with it, Enough with the Brits, lets talk Japanese.
The new Landcruisers are cracking apart. The big talk in the off road community is the fact that the new LCs are developing stress cracks in the firewall from off roading and Toyota is no help. Thats alot of money to spend on something that boasts its off road capability just to have it develope cracks after a couple years.

Older CJs have cracks by the spring hanger too - but I quess they are easier to fix than new LC.

 

[RayH]

Older CJs have cracks by the spring hanger too - but I quess they are easier to fix than new LC.

It took the CJs 20 years to crack and they dont cost $40000.

 

[voodoo]

Are they the best 4x4 made ?

No, not out of the factory. but give them to these guys, whoooa!!!
Now officially supported by the factory. Bowler Offroad Ltd

 

[RobertN]

Older CJ's/MB/M38's were also significantly lighter, and easier to parachute drop from a cargo plane, than the FJ Landcrusher(MB and M38 military vesion Jeeps for air drops...).

Until the newer version CJ7/CJ5 family in the late 70's, all of the Jeeps had "C" channel frames. those frames flexed more, but in doing so tended to crack at the spring hangers.

In terms of ultimate for offroad, IMHO I rate them like this:

#1 - Jeep CJ and Wrangler
#2 - '66-74 Ford Bronco
#3 - 60's/early 70's Jeep Commando
#4 - 60's-early 70's Toyota FJ Land Crusher
#5 - 60's/early 70's IH Scout

Honorable Mention:
60's Land Rover
60's Nissan Patrol

This list is for stock vehicles. When it comes to modified, Jeep CJ takes the cake.

Older CJs have cracks by the spring hanger too - but I quess they are easier to fix than new LC.

 

[MossRoad]

#1 - Jeep CJ and Wrangler
#2 - '66-74 Ford Bronco
#3 - 60's/early 70's Jeep Commando
#4 - 60's-early 70's Toyota FJ Land Crusher
#5 - 60's/early 70's IH Scout

Honorable Mention:
60's Land Rover
60's Nissan Patrol

Man, that would be a fun list of vehicles to own, wouldn't it?

 

[Egon]

I think you missed the Suzuki Samurai. With four men true and Strong riding in it it can go places where others only dream of!

And do not forget the old Dodge Power wagon!

 

[RobertN]

I would give the old Power Wagons an honorable mention. There are a bunch that could get honorable mention though

I think you missed the Suzuki Samurai. With four men true and Strong riding in it it can go places where others only dream of!

And do not forget the old Dodge Power wagon!

 

[RobertN]

Man, that would be a fun list of vehicles to own, wouldn't it?

I've had a couple. friends have had others in that top 5. They were pretty fun