L4400 vs M4800

[Knobby1]

Enjoy reading everyone's decision making processes. I am in the middle of this myself, have bought 40 acres very hilly and rocky acreage in the ozarks. Need to brush hog this and maintain about 25 acres of it, up & down, rocks, etc. Know for sure the M4800 will do the job, but wonder if the L4400 would suffice and save a few bucks for implements. Anyone with similar landscape please advise on experiences with these or similar machines. Thanks !!

 

[dex3361]

Welcome to TBN we are glad to have you as a new member. I have a L4400HST and my land sounds a lot like what you have to deal with. from the lower bottoms to the hill tops it has a rise of about 400 feet and I am maintaining about 80 acres and all of it is not tractorable. I say about the m4800 I havent looked at those but I did look at the MX5100 I think and if it had been available in HST I would have had to price compare that machine. The only drawback that I see to the L4400 is the Bucket Rollback angle. Some will talk about the weight oof the L4400 but I had the rears loaded with fluid and that balanced it out well. I pull a 7 foot box blade, 6 foot KK Rotary, a 7 foot blade all of this on some slopes that the seatbelt is needed to keep you in the seat. I dont hear many people talk about the saftey aspect of an HST tranny but It I rarely use the brakes even when changing directions on the hills. When going from forward to reverse the tractor never lets go or free wheels like if you would push the clutch in or slip a manual transmission into nuetral. I learned the benifit of this on the HST lawn machines. It was always nerve racking to clutch in and pass through nuetral on a sttep hill to change directions with my pevious tractor. Go test drive the machines and look at the physical differences.

 

[Knobby1]

Thanks for the info, I have used a borrowed HST tractor L48 and have hogged some of my acreage once, it did engage the pucker factor a couple of times. The gear model which would be my first choice would indeed pose an issue in some areas, thanks for this tip. I think the L4400 would work well for about 95% of what I need here. The M4800 is about the same price as the MX5100 and has same engine (without the turbo unit). But it has more weight and is wider/longer than the MX or the L4400. But what I want and what I need are likely two things. I guess what is bothering me about the 4400 is the "weak 3 pt" and the FEL angle thing, I keep hearing about these and it bothers me. Why walk into a gar hole intentionally, I keep thinking? Mostly what I would be doing is mowing and hogging or rough rocky terrain and I don't want anything breaking behind me. Sounds like your place is about the same as mine with regards to rough hilly terrain, what is your take on this paranoid view I have?

 

[art]

I haven't seen where the three point hitch lifting capacity to be a problem on the 4400. They are both good tractors. The added weight of the 4800 would be nice depending on how much excavation you are going to do with the rocks.

 

[Wombat125]

I could be very wrong here, but it sounds like you've already made up your mind and you just want help justifying your decision.

Get the M4800. If you don't have any clearance or maneuverability constraints, the bigger tractor will serve you well. You don't want to plunk down $25k and then always be second guessing yourself about what you think you should have bought.

I took my own advice and got a JD 5303. It's more tractor than I practically need, but I've never once had to question the value of my purchase.

Also, check out the JD 5003 series (or new 5E series). It's a lot of tractor for the money. Nothing wrong with the orange stuff at all. In fact, I was all queued up to buy a Kubota L or M tractor when I hopped on a JD 5303 just out of curiosity. The price was good, the dealer was closer, and there were a few little things that I just liked better.

Have fun researching and post pictures when you buy something.

 

[john_bud]

You may want to look at a slightly larger tractor so you can get a bigger mower. Cutting 25 acres is a lot for a 6-7' cutter.

jb

 

[dex3361]

Thanks for the info, I have used a borrowed HST tractor L48 and have hogged some of my acreage once, it did engage the pucker factor a couple of times. The gear model which would be my first choice would indeed pose an issue in some areas, thanks for this tip. I think the L4400 would work well for about 95% of what I need here. The M4800 is about the same price as the MX5100 and has same engine (without the turbo unit). But it has more weight and is wider/longer than the MX or the L4400. But what I want and what I need are likely two things. I guess what is bothering me about the 4400 is the "weak 3 pt" and the FEL angle thing, I keep hearing about these and it bothers me. Why walk into a gar hole intentionally, I keep thinking? Mostly what I would be doing is mowing and hogging or rough rocky terrain and I don't want anything breaking behind me. Sounds like your place is about the same as mine with regards to rough hilly terrain, what is your take on this paranoid view I have?

I have experienced no issues with the rear being weak. I will bring up again the stress of shifting gears or any tractor that disengages the transmission hold on a slope(freewheeling risk). If I were on flat ground I would get a standard transmission tractor the heaviest that I could afford because I tend to be a traditionalist. That said I like to be safe more. I looked at the Kubota web site and the M4800 is not the best for what I do. It is a wider ,600 pounds heavier and a more powerful tractor with planetary gears on the final drive but also a standard trans.. So It all depends on what you are going to use it for. I do not feel like I am at a disadvantage on the hills and in the woods. I really think otherwise the L4400 with L1 AG tires that are loaded in the rear set all the way out is stable. I do not do production work so the rollback issue isnt a problem that I cant live with.

 

[Knobby1]

Thanks to all for the valuable insights, this is good stuff; Wombat; you are pretty much correct on your mindreading here, based on my lookings and researching, the 4800 looks good to me, real good, and the back end of that thing is **** for stout. I am second guessing myself, perhaps needlessly, in wondering that I may not need something that stout for what I'll be doing. Several folks have assured me that the L4400 will do what I need and then some. The 4400 with loaded tires may be the solution for me, but will keep figuring on this until the light comes on. Also, have not looked at the Deere's other than a quick drive by, may have to check that out too. The comments on the HST have me thinking hard about that, really prefer the gear, but clutching on a hill side in a bind situation is something to really consider. I have more work to do here on figuring this out.

 

[rbargeron]

Forgive me for bringing this up if you've already considered it, but I believe the M4800 is only offered in 2-wheel drive. The L4400 is available in 2wd or 4wd. For a sloped place like you describe, it would seem like 4wd would be an important feature.

 

[Knobby1]

yes you are correct 2wd would get me nowhere, fast. The M4800 is offered in 4wd, the kubota webpage makes it look like that at first glance in the photos. The 4wd M4800 is a beast compared to the L series. The 3pt is way heavier and rear axle assy. My concern if figuring out if I need that much more or if the L4400 would work just fine. What most are telling me is just get the larger unit and stop trying to figure it out.......??!!

 

[N80]

yes you are correct 2wd would get me nowhere, fast. The M4800 is offered in 4wd, the kubota webpage makes it look like that at first glance in the photos. The 4wd M4800 is a beast compared to the L series. The 3pt is way heavier and rear axle assy. My concern if figuring out if I need that much more or if the L4400 would work just fine. What most are telling me is just get the larger unit and stop trying to figure it out.......??!!

The advice to always get a bigger tractor has no endpoint. If you can consider a 4800 then you can also consider a 6040 and if you can consider a 6040 then you can....... See what I mean? You don't really ever get to a point where you can't second guess your decision. Make a good, informed decision and don't second guess it.

I've got an L4400DT. Not in the mountains by any stretch, but still pretty hilly. I think it does very well. I also do not consider it being a geared tractor as a weakness on hills. Certainly if you try to change gears on clutch on a steep hill you run the chance of problems. But why would you need to change gears during a steep descent? Don't. Put it in the right gear and let the engine and breaks keep you in control. Heck, in 2/hi (6th gear) at idle, you will still barely crawl down as steep an incline as I'm willing to drive on. So don't worry about gear vs HST. Either one will be perfectly fine.

For me, the next step up from the L4400 would be an M5040.

 

[Knobby1]

Thanks this is good advice; I learnt many years back while racing enduros (bultacos), that shifting on a steep uphill at slow speeds isn't good, and its so hard to steer while going backwards 20 mph on a steep hill (if you miss that downshift). !!! You may have solved my delimma here. I guess what I am really trying to decide is if the L4400 will do all I want it to do, if so then I am happy camper. Natrually the larger tractor will do the job and more, thats of course what larger tractors do. I may revise my thinking and go with the original L4400 gear model I was thinking about. Thanks for the info......

 

[N80]

The one issue that you need to be aware of on the L4400 has already been mentioned and that is the three point hitch lift capacity. The specs on the hitch look fine, but in the manual there are capacity limits that depend on the type of implement. For instance, implements that stick off the back of the hitch a good way like rotary cutters and lift disks. If I recall correctly that limit is 900 pounds. This is less than most 6' medium duty rotary cutters and heavier 6-7' disks.

No one seems to know what these limits are based on. The hydraulics will lift a lot more than that. I've lifted a 1200 pound disk and I know quite a few people who are running 1000 pound medium duty rotary cutters with the L4400. The limits might be based on proper balance of the tractor as a whole. Even 800 pounds on the rear of the tractor makes it super light in the front without the loader or front weights. Or, it could be the limitations of the lift components. When a 1000 pound implement that sticks way off the back takes a bounce when you hit a bump, the shock loads on the hitch components is huge. A shorter implement, like a box blade, would stress the system less even if it weighed a lot more.

In any case, none of my implements exceed the hitch capacity as designated in the manual and so far I've had no need for anything heavier. So this has been meaningless to me. But if you needed a medium duty mower, you'd have to pay attention to its weight and how you used it. A heavy duty disk or mower might be out of the question.

To compare the L4400 lift ratings with other tractors you will need the manuals for both, since the raw specs are misleading.

 

[dex3361]

The advice to always get a bigger tractor has no endpoint. If you can consider a 4800 then you can also consider a 6040 and if you can consider a 6040 then you can....... See what I mean? You don't really ever get to a point where you can't second guess your decision. Make a good, informed decision and don't second guess it.

I've got an L4400DT. Not in the mountains by any stretch, but still pretty hilly. I think it does very well. I also do not consider it being a geared tractor as a weakness on hills. Certainly if you try to change gears on clutch on a steep hill you run the chance of problems. But why would you need to change gears during a steep descent? Don't. Put it in the right gear and let the engine and breaks keep you in control. Heck, in 2/hi (6th gear) at idle, you will still barely crawl down as steep an incline as I'm willing to drive on. So don't worry about gear vs HST. Either one will be perfectly fine.

For me, the next step up from the L4400 would be an M5040.

Where and how an individual operates the tractor differs greatly in the CUT group most CUTs are not plowing tractors but span a great number of tasks. George does not change directions often on the hills where I mow and do a lot of back and fouth while I mow push brush etc. If I did not work on the hills a lot and use the loader a lot or change directions frequently I would have gotten a FST/standard. But for what I do HST is the Transmission for me. Having used gear shift/ standard tractors most of my life and using a HST for me their is no comparison. It may not be for everybody. IF we all wanted the exact same thing it would be kinda boring.LOL

 

[Knobby1]

George; what you are describing here with regards to balance and handling implements on the 3pt is why I am initially leaning to the 4800. One look at the back of that and there is little doubt it is way stronger than the l4400. Most of what I have to mow or hog will be very bumpy/rocky and or hilly, mulitply that by a million jolts while pulling the 6' mower is what is bugging me about the l4400. Very little of the ground I will be on will be flat or smooth. A lot of jolting and rocking in various directions at once will be in play most of the time. I know the 4400 has the power to get this all done, but its the weight, width and 3 pt capacity that have me leaning towards the M4800.

 

[N80]

Having used gear shift/ standard tractors most of my life and using a HST for me their is no comparison. It may not be for everybody. IF we all wanted the exact same thing it would be kinda boring.LOL

I definitely think HST has advantages for frequent operating on hills. I was just pointing out that geared tractors will work just fine on hills too. It requires a little more work and a little more planning, but it can be done perfectly safely. I think that one thing people seem to forget is that withing any given gear you still have a range of speeds you can achieve with the gas pedal. In other words, I can start down a steep grade in 4th gear and take my foot off the gas and the engine will cause the tractor to barely creep down. Then, once it levels out a bit I can start giving it gas and increase speed considerable. No gear change is necessary to vary the speed. An L4400 HST would be a great choice for the OP but he seems to prefer geared.

 

[N80]

George; what you are describing here with regards to balance and handling implements on the 3pt is why I am initially leaning to the 4800. One look at the back of that and there is little doubt it is way stronger than the l4400. Most of what I have to mow or hog will be very bumpy/rocky and or hilly, mulitply that by a million jolts while pulling the 6' mower is what is bugging me about the l4400. Very little of the ground I will be on will be flat or smooth. A lot of jolting and rocking in various directions at once will be in play most of the time. I know the 4400 has the power to get this all done, but its the weight, width and 3 pt capacity that have me leaning towards the M4800.

Well, if the implement you are using is within spec, I don't think you would have any problem. Again, I'm not in the mountains but I don't think there is a smooth, flat area on my property. I've mowed a lot of rocks and done a good bit of earth moving with the front and sides of my rotary cutter
and have had no issues with the 3 pt hitch. That's in addition to a good bit of plowing with a 2-14 plow, regular disking with a 7' disk and endless 'landscaping' with a 6' box blade.

I'm not trying to talk you out of the 4800. If you have the budget to get a heavier, stronger tractor with more HP and not a much bigger footprint then there really isn't much of a downside to going with the 4800. I think the unique appeal of the L4400 is in its price and what you get for the money.

 

[slowzuki]

I have some hills and I got a L5030HSTC which I like very much however I will note a few things. After using an HST for a few years, you tend to loose the instinct to head for the brakes when you want to stop. This comes into play when you accidently knock the range lever into neutral while on a hill. (OH $@^#!)

A gear tractor is also not bad to use in the hills I find as long as it has a good parking brake and preferably a mechanical 4wd. Some of the electric ones go back to 2wd when you shut the key off so it doesn't run the battery down. In 4wd the brakes hold a lot better on the hills, especially when doing loader work.

 

[dex3361]

I looked at the 4800 and comparing it to the L4400 is like comparing apples to oranges. That machine is beast. Now if they made it in HST hmmmmmm.....

 

[Knobby1]

yeah I know dex, when you get to looking at the back end on the M4800, that thing is planted, big time. which is why I am favoring it at this point. if the L4400 was a bit heavier back there, it would be my hands down choice, its a great value and has good power. I am still concerned now that I would be operating (when using a heavy mower/brush hog) at the limit of the 3 pt on the 4400, and perhaps even exceeding it. Folks have said they are using the L4400 without having any problems however, I will need to resolve this for sure before deciding and buying. Don't want to go too light for the job, but also dont want to buy more than I need either. Must be something I'm overlooking between the two models that will decide me.........