L3700SU??

[arrow]

In that case they were Tong Yang tractors rebadged by Mahindra. I understand that Mahindra added them because Mahindra don't make tractors in certain popular sizes/power/features and could not have a complete line on their own. When inevitably, Mahindra changes supplier, you have to wonder if they will be as good as John Deere is at continuing to support those tractors.

That is certainly one of the advantages of buying Kubota. I do not think it is worth $2000 but I could be wrong. I have an 85 John Deere cut that I am currently running into the same problem with as parts are almost non existent for the 750. Personally, I have trouble with al the pricing on these cuts. For what a medium size cut cost, you can buy an entire car for brand new. The tractor has no glass, no upolstry to speak of, no where near the complicated drive train, limited electronics so the only thing that can even begin to justify the price is the longevity of the tractor with not too much maintenance and the frequency of purchase which is quite low for most people. My John Deere cost $9300 with fel. Today that cost has doubled to replace the tractor. I realize it is a supply and demand thing and not as large a rip off as college tuition and bottled water however I cannot justify the mark up currently on the L3400 series as a simple geared tractor and will not pay almost 20 grand for one for what it is.

 

[montelatici]

That is certainly one of the advantages of buying Kubota. I do not think it is worth $2000 but I could be wrong. I have an 85 John Deere cut that I am currently running into the same problem with as parts are almost non existent for the 750. Personally, I have trouble with al the pricing on these cuts. For what a medium size cut cost, you can buy an entire car for brand new. The tractor has no glass, no upolstry to speak of, no where near the complicated drive train, limited electronics so the only thing that can even begin to justify the price is the longevity of the tractor with not too much maintenance and the frequency of purchase which is quite low for most people. My John Deere cost $9300 with fel. Today that cost has doubled to replace the tractor. I realize it is a supply and demand thing and not as large a rip off as college tuition and bottled water however I cannot justify the mark up currently on the L3400 series as a simple geared tractor and will not pay almost 20 grand for one for what it is.

The L3400 (or L3700SU) with HST and FEL sells for less than 20K. A 20K car does not have all the heavy duty hydraulic pumps (in the case of the L series separate power steering systems) and cylinders, huge tires (compared to car ties), thick gauge steel all-around, sophisticated diesel engines (diesel model cars are usually 10-15% more expensive than gasoline powered cars). etc.

 

[ovrszd]

The L3400 (or L3700SU) with HST and FEL sells for less than 20K. A 20K car does not have all the heavy duty hydraulic pumps (in the case of the L series separate power steering systems) and cylinders, huge tires (compared to car ties), thick gauge steel all-around, sophisticated diesel engines (diesel model cars are usually 10-15% more expensive than gasoline powered cars). etc.

I have to agree with arrow on this one. We would be shocked and angered if we knew the profit markup on a Kubota tractor or any other brand for that matter.

However I don't agree with your reasoning as to why the cost is that high. Technology adds cost at a higher rate than pounds of steel. And as for the engine/powertrain, a tractor powertrain is a dinosaur compared to an automobile and doesn't face near the scrutiny for performance or eco-friendly operation. For example, it's impossible to make a factory equipped diesel car or truck smoke. My Kubota smokes everytime you crank it or increase rpm with load. If diesel autos/trucks had similar cleanliness systems you wouldn't be able to drive behind them for the smoke screen.

 

[DiezNutz]

If diesel autos/trucks had similar cleanliness systems you wouldn't be able to drive behind them for the smoke screen.

You mean like my old VW Diesel Rabbit Pickup? :laughing: Granted, I did "turn up" the injection pump... WOT kept tailgaters to a minimum.

I do have to throw in there that tractor tires are not cheap by comparison.

 

[montelatici]

I have to agree with arrow on this one. We would be shocked and angered if we knew the profit markup on a Kubota tractor or any other brand for that matter.

However I don't agree with your reasoning as to why the cost is that high. Technology adds cost at a higher rate than pounds of steel. And as for the engine/powertrain, a tractor powertrain is a dinosaur compared to an automobile and doesn't face near the scrutiny for performance or eco-friendly operation. For example, it's impossible to make a factory equipped diesel car or truck smoke. My Kubota smokes everytime you crank it or increase rpm with load. If diesel autos/trucks had similar cleanliness systems you wouldn't be able to drive behind them for the smoke screen.

Actually, technology reduces cost substantially. Adjusted for inflation, cars cost less today than in the 1930s for example:

"From 1935 to 2007 vehicle prices rose 2.7% average annually. For the last 20 years during 1987 to 2007 prices have only risen an average of 0.9% per year.


Looking at individual decades the annual rates were:
1940's 6.8%
1950's 2.3%
1960's 0.3%
1970's 5.2%
1980's 3.2%
1990's 1.4%
2000's -0.4%

Yes prices are actually going down this decade. That is a reflection of people buying smaller and more affordable vehicles."

Free By 50: History of new car costs and average inflation

I don't know that Kubota's "profit margins" are any higher or lower than a Japanese auto manufacturer. Maybe you have inside information.

 

[ovrszd]

Actually, technology reduces cost substantially. quote]

What I meant was the more technological equipment on the vehicle the more it costs to produce and thus brings a higher selling price. A Grand Kubota for example.

I don't have any inside info about profit margins. But a couple years ago I listened to the CEO (can't remember his name) of Ford Motor Company and the Grandson of Henry Ford being interviewed about profits and sales preferences. When they were asked why Ford seemed to push their truck line more than their lunchbox cars the CEO said the profit on a top end Super Duty was $20K. On the other side of that the profit on a Ford Focus was $500. He asked the interviewer which one he would rather produce and sell? That meant to this dumb hick that technology truly adds to the cost of what I buy.

 

[montelatici]

Actually, technology reduces cost substantially. quote]

What I meant was the more technological equipment on the vehicle the more it costs to produce and thus brings a higher selling price. A Grand Kubota for example.

I don't have any inside info about profit margins. But a couple years ago I listened to the CEO (can't remember his name) of Ford Motor Company and the Grandson of Henry Ford being interviewed about profits and sales preferences. When they were asked why Ford seemed to push their truck line more than their lunchbox cars the CEO said the profit on a top end Super Duty was $20K. On the other side of that the profit on a Ford Focus was $500. He asked the interviewer which one he would rather produce and sell? That meant to this dumb hick that technology truly adds to the cost of what I buy.

If by "technological equipment" you mean more "options" then yes, it will add to the manufacturing cost because of additional parts content and assembly labor.

Whether this higher cost leads to a higher percentage of margin, I don't know.

If you mean technology, then no. For example, the control computer/processor in a car that controls all the electrical/electronics on board is probably far less costly to build and install during assembly than the myriad of relays and switches that were used before. Today's monocoque assemblies are far less costly than body on frame systems. Ever price a Toyota Land Cruiser these days? About 80 grand while a monocoque Highlander is less than half that.

 

[arrow]

The L3400 (or L3700SU) with HST and FEL sells for less than 20K. A 20K car does not have all the heavy duty hydraulic pumps (in the case of the L series separate power steering systems) and cylinders, huge tires (compared to car ties), thick gauge steel all-around, sophisticated diesel engines (diesel model cars are usually 10-15% more expensive than gasoline powered cars). etc.

Doesn't add up for me Monte. There are suspension geometries a car must have to corner at speed. Sophisticated steering controls, multi step painting processes and on and on. Front tires on my wife's PT Cruiser cost a half again more than the ags on the front of my JD. When I had an association with Chrysler I was privy to some info such as a 1997 Dodge Intrepid costing $9800 to build. $1800 were for labor cost leaving roughly $7000 in material cost. This car had a sticker of $21000 to $24000. Thickness of metal has little to do with cost as metal is sold by weight. You would have a better argument with me if you had stated that if cars were sold at the rate of tractors, they would have to cost way more but material for material, the car wins hands down for what you get money wise. It is our adult desire that has led to the inflated pricing of c.u.t.s as one cannot substantiate their pricing on materials alone. They are simple beasts that also do not have to contend with any where near the advertising costs of autos or the built in litigation price profiles in cars. As a matter of fact, I've just talked myself in thinking a L3400 is worth no more than $12500 and that's with a fel. Ok, maybe $14500 tops. Looks like I'll never own one.

 

[Chilly807]

As with most things, it's what the market will support. Cost of any commodity is directly related to supply and demand, and in the North American marketplace in particular, desire for ownership.

"I don't care what it costs, I want one.." Never sweeter words to a dealer's ears..

I do believe costs have come down in relation to value, however. I can buy a new Honda Civic (middle model) now for less than I paid for a Saturn with same equipment 8 years ago. What's with that?

Sean

 

[arrow]

"I don't care what it costs, I want one.."



Sean

This is the mantra of the modern day man that started with yuppies and continued with crediteers of the next generations. I just came from Cape Cod. Went to a little breakfast place in Wellsfleet. Ordered 2 pancakes and an 8 oz glass of oj. With tax, the bill for these items came to $13.60. Here the same thing costs me $4.50. People are in vacation mode and your statement cannot ring any truer. We are suckers for anything that makes it seem ok that we want what we want. 0% financing, 5 years to pay, etc made for quick sales. What if we went back to the concept of "if I do not have the money, I can't get it" Then it would be the consumer who is controlling the shots. What do you think the price of these cuts would be if the manufacturers had to wait for the consumer to save up for one of their tractors? What better way to inflate a price than to give the consumer money to pay for it right now instead of the other way around and be sure of payback with "your credit score will suffer if you do not pay on time" is like the old "you'll go to **** if you don't go to church"