L2402 won't start

[case685]

Hi I looked at a L2402 today but it would not start. The temp was about 30f. The tractor has been sitting since the summer but did run then. It has about 400 hrs on it. The glow plug indicator would not light so I'm guessing they don't work. We did however crank the engine alot and gave it a few shots of ether. Does this engine (D1402) have to have the glow plugs working to start in the cold?
I also noticed unburned fuel leaking out of the exhaust manifold (it was only loosely mounted) but I'm guessing thats normal if you crank a diesel engine alot and it doesn't fire. It seems to try to start and throws alot of grey /black smoke out but will not run. Thanks in advance for any and all replies. Gerry

 

[lens12]

It needs the glow plugs to start. Don't use glow plugs & ether. Kaboom.

 

[Egon]

As stated look into the glow plugs.

On an interim basis trow a tarp over the tractor and put a small heater under it. It may warm things up so it will start.

Either may work for some but if it gets improperly used things can get expensive! Throw the darned stuff away!

 

[diyDave]

Ditto- nix the ether unless you want some new pistons. Bring a test light with you and trace out whether you have juice to the glow plugs, could be as minor as a blown fuse or a loose wire.

 

[case685]

Hi Thanks for the replies. This tractor also has the compression bypass on it. Not sure how or whether that should be used in conjunction with the glow plugs.If somebody can enlighten me regarding how that works that would be great. Also I'm guessing the fuel may be old which probably would cause more issues in cold weather thaan in warm. The guy has a mechanic coming to look at it in the next few days. I called him and asked him to not use ether. Was wondering, can ether do damage to an engine which is not readily apparent ie: could it shorten engine life but leave the engine running normal. Thanks again. Gerry

 

[lens12]

"can ether do damage to an engine which is not readily apparent."
Too much ether will wash the oil off of the cylinder walls.

 

[diyDave]

Compression release is to get the motor spinning faster than what is normal under the load of compression. Procedure is to preheat the tractor as described in the manual(Some plugs heat up in less than 30 seconds, some may take a minute, that's why I say look it up), then, at the same time, pull out the comp. release, then hit the starter, then release the comp. release, after the motor is going as fast as it's going to go. The thing you don't want to do is to run the starter with the comp. release open, for any longer than the minimal time it takes for the motor to achieve max rpm. If you do, you'll cool your plugs from the air moving across them. Done right it's heat, whirr, release, it's started. Total elapsed time after pre-heating: a second or three.

 

[case685]

Thanks guys. More great info.

 

[case685]

Hi I'm still not able to get the tractor to start. I cleaned up the connections and the glow plugs are now working or at least appear to be. I changed the fuel and fuel filter but after several attempts to bleed the lines it still won't go. One thing I noticed when bleeding the lines is that no amount of bleeding would eliminate tiny bubbles from appearing at the connection at the top of each injector. I'm not sure if this is okay or if it is a sign that air is being pulled into the system somewhere. When bleeding it I kept the compression bypass open to make it easier on the starter hopefully thats okay.
I have tried several times to start it leaving the glow plugs on as long as 90 seconds. Each time it seems very close to starting and throws grayish white smoke but will not run. Thanks in advance for any replies. Gerry

 

[js5020]

If you are near electricty use a hair dryer to blow warm air into the intake, don't be tempted to use a can of insta start. Make sure your battery is fully charged and the starter is able to spin the engine over well. Did you fill the fuel filter with fuel? or did you spin it on empty, if empty it may take a bit to get all the air out. My machine is a Bear to start after changing a fuel filter and has been since new, I always change it only after warming up the machine and before it gets cold. If all else fails start at the tank and make sure you are getting fuel, some have a strainer in the fuel bowl or at the tank outlet, bowl is full but fuel will not pass, neighbors backhoe is famous for this, make sure you have good flow for a few seconds, had a machine that would let me get a half mile down the road and would shut down out of fuel with a full tank, tank strainer blocked with gunk. Take off the line right before the filter run it into a fuel can make sure you have fuel, if good go to the pump in line and if you have good fuel there, check to be sure something hasn't moved or changed the operation of the pump shut off rod. Let us know how you make out and good luck.

 

[lens12]

There is usually a bleed screw or two on the fuel filter assembly. There isa bleed screw on the injector pump inlet line. Have you bled them?

 

[case685]

Hi Still struggling to get my tractor started. I thought I would post some pics of the fuel system.As you can see the fuel filter housing has only one spot that might be a bleed point. The fitting is a 10mm but has a hose connected to it that runs to the top of the tank. Do I remove this hose when bleeding or just leave it. Also in the pics you can see a small wheel at the inlet point on the pump. I assumed this was a fuel shutoff. If its for bleeding could anyone enlighten me as to the procedure. I cant see any other spots on the pump that might be for bleeding. I tried again today to bleed from the injectors but I was getting concerned about running the starter for too long. I did keep the decompression valve open when cranking but in some other posts I saw that people recommended cracking all the injector lines at once and closing them as bubbles disappear and that the engine should fire in which case I should leave the valve closed? Thanks.Gerry

 

[lens12]

It doesn't look like there is a bleeder on the filter. The wheel on the injector pump is the bleeder. Open it & the air should come out of the lines. Close it before trying to start it.

 

[case685]

Hi Just updating. Still wouldn't start, even though I now know how to bleed it (thanks Lens12 ). Had it looked at by a mechanic who discovered only one cyl was firing. He played with the injector pump - said the plungers looked gummed up, probably from sitting for years. Still wouldn't go so he pulled out the ether( I know,I know ). That finally got her to start. Ran very rough, surging and throwing out lots of blue smoke. Then he told me that it looked like somebody had the head off and used silicone when they put it back on which he said is not a good thing to do. Anyway, looks like my good deal is starting to go south a bit.
After letting it run for a while it did start to clear up. He said to let it run for a bit then shut it off and let it cool down then see if it will start again. It wouldn't. My options at this point are 1) repair this engine 2) take the tractor back for another ( the guy has no other L2402's in this price range, only 4wd models with FEL's at more than twice the price-$7500 ) or 3) he could find me another D1402 engine to put in it.
Okay I know option 3 might seem a bit much but I would enjoy the experience of R&Ring the engine and if I have good running machine when done I would be happy. My big concern with this option of would be whether the replacement motor was good.
So I would like to ask this question. Is it possible to test an engine without putting it in the tractor or is there anything I can or should look for when checking out a used engine. Appreciate any opinions/ideas on this. Thanks. Gerry

 

[lens12]

Unless you can hear the used motor running, I usually recommend rebuilding what you have. It will probably be cheaper & you know what you have when you are done.

 

[diyDave]

A couple of thoughts for free. Is that knurled knob on the injector pump a valve or is it a hand pump? I have a chinese tractor that has a little pump, that you unscrew, pull out, pump, then screw back in, to bleed the system. Second, have you tried using diesel 911 or other such similar diesel driers or gum cutter products? I have had success at unclogging gummed up pumps, by pouring the product at about 50/50 with the fuel, into the pump, allowing to sit for about a week, and letting it eat the gum out.

 

[case685]

Hi Guys I have decided at this point to wait and see if the guy comes up with a motor for me. He should provide me one at no charge so I'm just out my time if it doesn't work. As for the bleeder it is a valve not a pump. De-gumming the pump is a good idea Dave I will give that a try. I'm am also wondering if I should pull the head off this motor to take a closer look. Maybe the problem is as simple as a headgasket. If its worse than that I can take the motor exchange route. Thanks for the tips. Will post updates and no doubt more questions as I go. Gerry

 

[case685]

My mechanic came around today to see if the 2402 ran any better. This time he got it to start without too much trouble. He had worked on another little Kubota recently with the same problem and now believes the gummed up pump is a big part of the problem. Anyway I let it run for a good hour at which point it was running a lot better. Here's what its still doing- a fair bit of blue smoke is still coming from the exhaust ( running at half throttle in the photos ), quite a bit of blowby coming out of the breather tube. Also when I pull the dipstick oil spatters out of the hole.
Can blowby like this be caused by a bad headgasket or are there other problems causing this such as rings. If the 480 hrs showing on the meter is fairly accurate is it more likely that I could get away with just a ring job or is that wishful thinking on my part. Thanks.Gerry

 

[alvanko]

"Can blowby like this be caused by a bad headgasket or are there other problems causing this such as rings."
.
Rings

 

[case685]

Okay, rings it is then. Thanks, Alvanko.