Kubota Tier 4 Engines

[Kubotafan]

What are the pro and cons on the tier 4 engines? I understand they are more expensive but are there any practical benefits besides supposedly cleaner air? Do they use more or less fuel? Etc.... I am sure someone could give some information that many of us would find informative. Thanks in advance.

 

[Texas Fella]

It really depend. Speaking for Kubota engines, the fuel consumption is basically a wash. It takes more fuel to burn the DPF, however, the addition of electronic engine control and tighter tolerances create a more fuel efficient engine. Again, in the end, basically even. On most models, the addition of the electric components (engine ECU) for the common rail engine allow the unit to improve its torque curve and make some adjustments to itself based on varying conditions like load and engine temperature. It also allows for more accurate monitoring of the engine parameters like temperature, rpm, etc. I am not saying any of this in necessary worth the cost, but it is a benefit, not matter how small.

The major con is the price. Some people site the additional electronics on board (as a con), but we (the entire industry) have had electronics on tractors for decades and have had very little problems with them holding up in the "real world". In fact, most "electronic" issues have been caused by poor planning on the part of the manufacturer, not an issue with the electronics themselves. Or at least that has been my experience.

I hope this helps give you a little bit more info. Enjoy!

 

[houstonscott]

High pressure direct injection will have some very good effects. They make more power, use less fuel, start easer, run smother, are quieter, don't smoke, and are much cleaner. While EGR might require some added maintenance and AGblue some top off now and then those systems are not complicated or hard to maintain. In the end those parts might be significantly cheaper then mechanical fuel injectors or a main governor. HS

 

[The Fred]

AGblue some top off now and then those systems are not complicated or hard to maintain. In the end those parts might be significantly cheaper then mechanical fuel injectors or a main governor. HS

I will disagree here. Particulate filter is around $1,400, CAT is another $1,200 (it was covered in another thread). Adblue system will add significant costs over earlier machines that have NO exhaust emissions, the electric pump that adds urea into the exhaust is almost $1,000 on a new VW. About $4,000 dollars has been added to these new machines in BS and in 30 years WHO is going to support these subsystems when Kubota turns these parts into obsolescence? Yup most likely nobody.

Your Ford 8N has parts available over the counter at many parts places, so does Deere, Case, IH many others. It's called planned obsolescence in this new world.

Cleaner air is a nice benefit, start these new machines cold in your living room if you choose and they run nicely and don't smoke...at what cost? Cold starting will also be a benefit, new TDIs start just fine down to -20f with no heaters.

I see VW TDIs with exhaust issues and it's easy to dump 4 grand into a new exhaust. I'm not sold on it yet and neither should you but if you voted for clean air then be prepared to pay for it.

Fred

 

[Kubotafan]

I know some new diesel trucks (GM and maybe others) have a tank for a fuel additive which is burned with the fuel (or somewhere in the system). Is this needed with these new engines? You can see I am not a mechanic but have lots of questions!

 

[The Fred]

As far as I know the smaller tractors do not have urea (Adblue) yet. They have a catalytic converter and a Diesel particulate filter.

Plumber friend of mine has a 2010 Mercedes Sprinter van and within 1 month of the purchase the complete urea tank and subsystem had to be replaced as everything inside corroded badly. A year later the EGR valve went and the dealer told him that repair alone was $1,000 dollars. Both were covered by warranty of course.

I think for 10-15 years these tier 4 machines will be fine but what about down the road 30-50 years? I still run a 1958 machine and can buy parts to repair it.

Fred



Fred

 

[art]

With the diversifications of manufacturers we sell it is interesting as to what has had to be done to clean up the exhaust on the different designs of engines.

Most all direct injection engines have gone for def fluid to have a gain in the clean air as well as they were able to advance the timing after tier 3 where they retarded it to clean so fuel economy has been improved. On the indirect injection they have gone with the converters and was able to meet requirements.

 

[Industrial Toys]

They say that in a metropolitan area, the exhaust coming out of those engines is cleaner then the air going in. It seems that as for the truck regulations, fuel economy is secondary, and emmissions is what it is all about. My 08 Duramax gets horrible fuel economy yet has piles of emmision control stuff. Wouldn't achieving better MPG naturally pollute less?

They just shut down out last coal fired generating plant in Ontario. STUPID, STUPID politicians!

What's next? An electric powered tractor, charged by those STUPID windmills and solar panels?

 

[BeezFun]

What's next? An electric powered tractor, ...?

That's actually a good idea. I don't drive my tractor very far from an electrical outlet, it would be easy to keep it charged. No preheating, no fuel system, no expensive emissions devices, weight is a benefit so the heavier the battery the better.

 

[MHarryE]

Different companies have different methods of getting there. Under 37 HP there is almost no change. 37 - 75 HP Kubota reached Tier 4 interim with EGR like my L5740. Over 75 Tier 4 interim and 37 - 75 Tier 4 final Kubota has hone to a DPF along with the cooled EGR. Testing shows the DPF will go at least 3,000 hours before cleaning and there are shops all over that now clean DPFs. I haven't seen the charts on the Tier 4 final Kubota tractor engines but they are direct injected vs indirect injected and comparing their Tier4 interim engines the direct injected (not used in their tractors) got about 20% better fuel economy based on pounds per HP-HR. The M135 GX is the only Kubota for which I have seen a Nebraska test that could be compared with the previous version M135 and the economy numbers were so close they were within measuring error. The tractors do cost more but most come with more features than just the new engine. For instance the M135GX has a 24 speed transmission vs an 18 on the M135, plus it has a much roomier cab. As for filter and other parts costs - companies are required to warrant all emissions components for 5 years or 3,000 hours on tractors over 50 HP regardless of the basic warranty. Will the parts be available in the future? Time will tell but John Deere advertises it sells parts for tractors built in 1927. AGCO bought several companies (white tractor including Minneapolis-Moline and Oliver plus the entire Massey-Ferguson/Massey Harris lines because in service parts there is money).