Kubota B21 or John Deere 4200

[avc8130]

I am looking for a CUT to use on 12 acres I just bought. The machine will be used to move snow, bush hog, dig holes, move dirt/gravel, dig some fence posts, and other random tractor duties.

So far 2 used machines have popped up and caught my eyes. Both are going for ~$13k private party.

Machine A:
Kubota B21
1300 hours
3-point hitch included
Loader/backhoe and fiberglass sunshade

Machine B:
2001 John Deere 4200
1200 hours
3-point hitch components MIA
Loader/backhoe included

Am I looking in the right ball park? Any advice/assistance is greatly appreciated.
ac

 

[avc8130]

Stumbled on TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors and realized these 2 machines aren't really in the same boat. The JD has 5 more hp at the motor, 8 more at the PTO and pumps 3.5gpm more. Clearly the JD is more tractor.
ac

 

[TripleR]

Stumbled on TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors and realized these 2 machines aren't really in the same boat. The JD has 5 more hp at the motor, 8 more at the PTO and pumps 3.5gpm more. Clearly the JD is more tractor.
ac

Then I would go with the JD.

 

[troutsqueezer]

But then, a few more HP and GPM isn't always the full story, is it? What about history? Where was it kept. How was it maintained. Do you want a front and rear ROP (B21) or just rear. A front ROP can save your life if a big tree branch swings your way.

There's always more than meets the eye.

 

[RobertN]

I take car of 13 acres; my five, and my parent eight. do similar stuff, except I do not have a backhoe.

I did everything with tractor very similar in size, hp, hst, to the B21. My old B8200HST was a great tractor, but at 20hp, it was underpowered for the size tractor it was(again, same size as B21). I really noticed it with a rotary mower; just not enough pto power.

That said, I would look at something with more power than the two tractors you mention. I would be looking at something like the B2910, B3300, or even an L series Kubota(or the similar in a JD, or NH IMHO).

The B21 is an awesome commercial duty tractor. but, I would not want to struggle with low pto hp, and a 4' mower, on 12 acres.

I happened across a deal on the newer tractor we got, a NH TC40D. I jumped from 19hp to 40hp I was originally looking at something like the Kubota L3410. Mid size, and my wife uses one at the nursery she works at...

In addition to more HP, you can also get a bigger loader, and mower.

 

[avc8130]

I take car of 13 acres; my five, and my parent eight. do similar stuff, except I do not have a backhoe.

I did everything with tractor very similar in size, hp, hst, to the B21. My old B8200HST was a great tractor, but at 20hp, it was underpowered for the size tractor it was(again, same size as B21). I really noticed it with a rotary mower; just not enough pto power.

That said, I would look at something with more power than the two tractors you mention. I would be looking at something like the B2910, B3300, or even an L series Kubota(or the similar in a JD, or NH IMHO).

The B21 is an awesome commercial duty tractor. but, I would not want to struggle with low pto hp, and a 4' mower, on 12 acres.

I happened across a deal on the newer tractor we got, a NH TC40D. I jumped from 19hp to 40hp I was originally looking at something like the Kubota L3410. Mid size, and my wife uses one at the nursery she works at...

In addition to more HP, you can also get a bigger loader, and mower.

It is funny you mention this. When I was at the county fair over the summer I spent close to 2 hours talking with the local Kubota dealer. I quickly upsold myself to the B3200. I think that is my ideal tractor right now.

I was only considering these at the moment since they are roughly 1/2 price of the 3200 with similar equipment.

I think I am going to hold out until I either find a used ~30hp TLB or I suck it up and sign for a new one.
ac

 

[arrabil]

The 3pt parts are expensive and while $13K for a 4200 with a backhoe is a good price.... I'd be looking for signs of stress on the backhoe mounting. Particularly the rear case. Otherwise, the 4200 would be a great match for what you want to do. Though if you have very hilly terrain or like to work extra fast, a 4300/4400 would be a better choice.

 

[avc8130]

The 3pt parts are expensive and while $13K for a 4200 with a backhoe is a good price.... I'd be looking for signs of stress on the backhoe mounting. Particularly the rear case. Otherwise, the 4200 would be a great match for what you want to do. Though if you have very hilly terrain or like to work extra fast, a 4300/4400 would be a better choice.

That is what concerns me. My property goes from ~800 feet to 850 feet elevation in about 400 linear feet. I will need to be able to conquer this slope.
ac

 

[arrabil]

I live on a big hill and I don't have any problems but most people have a lead foot and expect their tractor to accommodate it. If you're that type, you'll want the extra power of the 43/4400.

 

[TripleR]

Good advice overall and a full description of your terrain and chores are always helpful. Based on my experience, you will not regret getting something in the 40 or up range. I could have gotten by with a 35-40 HP, but I'm glad I got a 50. Once you get past a few acres, chores/tasks are going to dictate the size needed. Our biggest tractors are on our smallest farm.

 

[avc8130]

I live on a big hill and I don't have any problems but most people have a lead foot and expect their tractor to accommodate it. If you're that type, you'll want the extra power of the 43/4400.

Honestly I can't imagine crawling around from one corner of my property to the barn or garage on the other. I tend to have a lead foot (I have 2 150hp sportbikes, a 400hp muscle car, my Duramax has a tuner, etc).

I like the SIZE of the 4200 as I think it will fit anywhere I want to go...but the reports of low power concern me a lot.

I think I will keep looking.
ac

 

[arrabil]

If you're on a steep hill you'll never use anything but "A" range with any of the models. But going uphill you'll get 1-2 mph more out of the 43/4400.

BTW, I like the smaller size of the 4200 too. But its also possible you may not even notice the 43/4400 being bigger.

 

[RobertN]

My B8200 was standard "B" series sized, like the B21. It really was a nice size for my 5 acres. It just lacked PTO HP. With HST, it crept well. Just, the rulle of thumb is 5hp per foot of rotary cutter. 15hp on the pto worked in thin stuff, but if it got thick; I had to go soooo slow.

What took days to do at my parents, because the grass was tough, takes hours now. Partly because i made a jump from a 4' mower, but partly because I have power to spare. My 6' rotary mower needs 30hp; I have 34 on the PTO and 40 total.

My tractor is big for my property. I originally was looking at a L3410 sized tractor; this is the next size bigger. I sure like it now though, going from under powered to having reserve.

In all reality, my B8200 evolved in to the B2150, and then B2710/2910. those are same size tractors, but have tons more HP.

I would look at JD-4300, Kubota L3410, NH TC35 for 10+ acres. The smaller Kubota B series and it's equivilants would be ok, but get the 30HP or more versions.

 

[RoyJackson]

If you're on a steep hill you'll never use anything but "A" range with any of the models. But going uphill you'll get 1-2 mph more out of the 43/4400.

That's because "B" or "C" range would be too fast (at least with a gear transmission)!!!

(Actually mostly "A" range since I use low range 2nd and 3rd for mowing. "B" range is for just getting from one place to another quickly (on my drive or lawn). "C" range is only a road range for me.Remember, this is a sync-reverser, so don't compare it to a hydro transmission).

 

[Mighty Dodge]

I leave my 4200 in range "B" most of the time. I only use "A" when doing heavy pulling (loaded trailer) or ground engaging work (plowing the garden) etc.

 

[arrabil]

That's because "B" or "C" range would be too fast (at least with a gear transmission)!!!

I will second that. Going uphill the Hydro really takes away from the seat-of-your-pants-HP while your Reverser feels exactly the opposite.

 

[BruceWard]

My B21 will go up a 15 degree slope in high gear, anything steeper or any load and you will be down shifting. Low gear is pretty slow but great for loading unbroken shale and pushing stumps.

 

[arrabil]

A B21 TLB weighs a thousand pounds less than a 4200 TLB though.

 

[BruceWard]

I looked into the 4200 after reading this thread. My initial thought was could I trade my B21 for a heavier 4200 TLB with greater PTO HP (I would rather own Green than Orange). From the specs and pictures I can find online I quickly changed my mind for the following reasons.

1. The 4200 FEL hydraulic lines are wrapped and stick out of the side of the tractor.

2. The plastic hood on the 4200. My LX279 has one of those and they are easy to break.

2. The lack of FOPS. If you drop something on the roof or roll something down the FEL it will end up in your lap.

3. The weight spec I could find for the 4200 was around 2500 pounds for the base 4200 without FEL or backhoe. A B21 with FEL weighs 3,000 pounds or 4,000 with FEL and Backhoe.

The advantages I see to the 4200 are great PTO power for a larger bushog and the middle mount mower if you want a lawn mower.

For me I spend too much time working in the woods. I would destroy the hood and rip off the hydraulic cables in no time. I have dented the steel encased FEL control box and bent the steel hydraulic line leading from it on my B21. I have rolled logs down the FEL of my B21 twice, both stopped at the FOPS, I would have been in trouble on the 4200.

I have had a 5' 1000 pound bush hog (JD 406) behind my B21 and my Dad mowed about 5 acres. The bush hog was his. He normally uses it behind a MF35. He thought it worked fine behind the B21.

Our farm tractors are much more effective at bush hogging, hay baling, discing and other farm chores. The B21 is much better at clearing roads, trenching, moving dirt and rocks.

To me the JD 4200 looks like a lawn mower on steroids that is not tough enough to do the work we do with the B21 or strong or fast enough to do the work of the farm tractors.

 

[mjncad]

I own a 4200, and this past summer I moved 200-tons of recycled concrete and road-base for my neighbor's and ours driveways over the course of 4-days. I can get a thousand pounds in the bucket (ask me how I know). Over the time I've owned my rig, I'd say I've easily moved a 1,000 tons or more of dirt and rock, and snow. I use a 6' rear blade on it. The Deere is heavier, which was another selling point to me over the Kubota.

If you're handy with a welder and a saw, you can fabricate you're own FOPS. I like how the Deere loader handle is placed and my hand just naturally falls on it. Also, I like Deere's HST pedal arrangement better than Kubota's.

The big downside I see to the 4200 you're looking at is the missing 3PH parts. I'd use that as a negotiating point for a lower price.