Kubota and Biodiesel

[JBX]

Hi Eric,
I have been using bio in my BX2200 for 3 years now. Have used anywhere from 20% to 100% and everything in between. Have noticed just a very slight reduction in power. Other observations are that paint will get soft and curdle where the bio leaked onto the frame and I did not clean it off. It was leaking from the fuel tank at the sender unit, and understand that there was a problem with the gasket there that Kubota has a repair kit for.

As for Kubota's stance on bio diesel, here is a copy of an email that was sent to me in July of 2003 from Kubota Corporate PR after I told them I was using bio in my tractor-

"Your use of "biodiesel" is interesting - however, this is not an approved fuel for our diesel engines. Here are the reasons: Kubota does not approve the use of Bio Diesel for the following reasons:
1. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and California Air Resources
Board (CARB) has approved our engines for only Number 2 Diesel fuels.
2. This Bio Diesel may cause cold weather starting and lowered horsepower
by at least 7%. Kubota will not authorize the adjustment of horsepower to compensate.
3. Fuel consumption is expected to raise by approximately 15%.
4. Spilled fuel will cause the paint on the tractor to melt.
5. Rubber parts in the fuel system will deteriorate quickly causing
service to be required on this system at 1000 hours or 2 years
6. As we have not tested this application, we could not guarantee that
it would have no negative effect on the injection system. For this reason, we would not approve warranty for failed injection system components.
7. The compounds in this fuel are more flammable than diesel fuel and
special attention to prevention of fires is required. This will require extra care in handling.
Our policy is that we do not publish stories about products being used in ways that are not "engineering approved." Your use of biodiesel eliminates our opportunity to run an update. Thanks for your interest and your loyalty to Kubota products. Pat Carroll National Manager Advertising & Public Relations"

Don't know if their stance has changed any, hope it has, and not sure of all the claims made above about biodiesel.

Sincerely,
Steve

 

[RickOliver]

There's a big difference between biodiesel and SVO (straight vegetable oil). For most practical purposes, biodiesel is essentially the same as diesel, except it burns cleaner. I've never heard of a diesel engine that couldn't run on biodiesel, and no special modifications should be necessary. Conversely, I've never heard of a diesel engine that could run on SVO without rather significant modifications, particularly in the areas of filtering and pre-heating, since room-temperature (or colder) SVO is too viscous.

Making biodiesel involves more than simply cleaning up the vegetable oil. There's a process that involves methanol and/or lye (I don't claim to know the details), but you can buy kits to make it yourself. But as biodiesel becomes more commercially viable, cheap/free sources of the main ingredient -- used vegetable oil -- will rapidly vanish.

 

[texasjohn]

Well, I've looked all over to find WHICH models of Kubota tractors are approved for BIODIESEL.... no luck.

Anybody know?

Here's the one and only announcement that I can find.

It does not list model numbers.

 

[montelatici]

I spend quite a bit of my time in Europe for business purposes. Though the car I own there is gasoline powered, I notice most people in a variety of diesel cars (most cars are diesels there it seems) filling up at the biodiesel pumps when the gas station has it. It is somewhat cheaper than dino diesel, but I have read that it really costs more to produce and the difference in price is as a result of taxes. I guess picking up cooking oil and cleaning it up costs more than buying crude and refining it. Doesn't make too much sense unless it is a matter of economies of scale.

 

[rdsaustintx]

OK my fading memories of LOTS of discussions here:

Kubota says only use dino or warranty may be void on existing iron.

Kubota has recently announced they will make new tractors 'multifuel'.

Waste vegetable oil has to be treated to remove tallow, not just filtered.

Coolest part is your tractor smells like donuts or french fries.

Biodiesel melts everything. Rubber, plastic, paint, your driveway...

There is not nearly enough biomass in the world to ever displace dino, but bio has great potential as a fuel additive. Boosts cetane and lubricates injectors.

Russell in Texas

 

[JBX]

Biodiesel, in my experience, does not "melt everything", but does "soften" rubber or petroleum based products, like automotive or oil based paint (if not wiped up and cleaned up with soap and water when spilled). Any auto or kitchen cleaner works ok to clean up bio. If bio sits on paint for more than a week or so, it will start to curdle the paint. (don't ask me how I know).

For fuel line, I use "viton", for absolute protection from softening or leaking caused by bio fuels. If you have to ask how much it is, then you may not want to look on the web for it. (hint- they sell it by the inch, not the foot).

Straight veggie oil (SVO) can be used in some diesel engines and is being done, but it will eventually cause damage to the engine, because the glycerine in the fuel caused carbon deposits when burned.

Bio diesel, having had the "glycerine" removed from the fuel, by "trans-esterification" is good for all diesel engines, in any blend, from 1% to 100%.

Vegetable oils, even rendered animal fats, (chicken, hog, beef) have fatty acids or triglycerides, which when removed, make an excellent diesel fuel.

My first drum of bio that I bought 4 years ago came shipped with labels stating "FOOD PRODUCT" and "PRODUCT of USA". I thought that was neat.

jbx

 

[gilliganfarmer]

I live on St.croix and am looking at getting a L3400 and I am thinking of getting a biodiesel making kit. There is a lot of fried food down here and as far as I know lots of it gets dumped.

Would you guys make any changes to a new tractor to make it not have issues with the bio diesel?

Does it matter what type of transmission one gets? I mean is one better if you go with Biodiesel?

 

[Wesdor]

I try to use bio diesel in my tractor during warm weather. The local Farm Supply dealer recommended not using it in the cold weather because it has a tendency to gel if it gets too cold.

The Deere dealer in town uses nothing but bio diesel in their tractors. At least that's what a friend who works there tells me.

 

[cityfarma]

I used biodiesel in my Toyota ute for a couple of years until my mate was unable to source sufficient used oil. I loved it! I used any proportion from near 100% to what ever I was able to get and poured it into my tank.

My concern with commercial biodiesel is an ethical one. If you research the source of the raw oil, you will find that a lot is from palm oil. This is grown in Indonesia and Borneo. These countries are allowing large areas of forest to be destroyed to plant the palms. A lot of the destruction is illegal but nothing is done to stop it. This destruction is causing loss of habitat to many endangered species (not to mention the carbon put into the atmosphere when the forest is burnt).

Another concern is that food grade oil from canola etc is increasing in price as food use has to compete with fuel use.

I ask that we also consider ethics as well as our wallets.

Cityfarma

 

[KennyV]

Hello LBrown59
it痴 been a long time back to that thread as I recall someone sidetracked it with a lot of ,unfounded, objection to using used hydro oil in a chainsaw as a bar lube
Bio-diesel is great stuff, CLEAN hydro oil is good as is almost any CLEAN oil There is a lot of information on the web about this... KennyV.

 

[KennyV]

cityfarma
You raze a very valid point ethics usually take a backseat to everything. KennyV.

 

[Reg]

One POSSIBLE drawback might be limited "shelf life".
Not an issue as long as you're burning a tank or two a month, but if you are an occasional tractor player and leave the tractor under a tarp for a few months it might go sour.
Alternatively, a good excuse to put in some extra seat time, "Gotta burn that old fuel off Honey, b'fore it goes bad on me."

 

[perdurabo]

This is an old thread, but I figured an update was in order. This is Kubota's official statement concerning biodiesel/SVO:

Kubota Engine America - Compact Diesel Engines

They also explicitly state:

"The use of biodiesel does not affect the Kubota warranty for material and workmanship. However, any failures attributed to the use of biodiesel, or any diesel fuel, are not factory defects and will not be covered under Kubota's warranty."

So, unless they can PROVE the failure was caused by your choice of fuel, they will still honor your warranty.

I've put thousands of miles on a 2003 VW Golf TDI and a 2003 Dodge 2500 (Cummins common rail) on STRAIGHT vegetable oil, NOT biodiesel. personally, I'm no fan of biodiesel as it still requires the use of petrochemically-derived methanol and lab grade KOH or NaOH to make (no, you cannot use corn-based ethanol or woodash lye for transesterification). If you had the proper equipment and sufficient land, you could be nearly self-sufficient fuelwise by using straight vegetable oil. With biodiesel, you are still a slave to the oil/gas companies for your methanol. The Elsbett company in Germany has been converting production diesel engines to run on SVO/WVO for decades. Criticisms about WVO/SVO causing coking of cylinder heads are mostly BS thrown out by uneducated chicken-littlers or people who have a stake in the oil industry's monopoly. This problem does happen but only to those who improperly design or install their system. If you use well-filtered (2 micron or better nominal) and most critically WELL DE-WATERED (preferably done by a centrifuge filtration system) non-hydrogenated oil like canola, sunflower, peanut, or soybean in a system where the oil reached at least 165F before flowing through the injectors, there will be no coking.

 

[GravelRoads]

An update for this older thread. Check the model number to see if the machine can run B5 or B20 and what maintenance changes are needed.

https://www.kubotausa.com/service-s...ules/lubricant-maintenance-schedule/biodiesel

 

[bunyip]

A friend of mine teaches mechanics (heavy diesel machinery) and assesses fuels and oils, he advised me never to run bio diesel in my vehicle as i DO NOT DO THE MILES, he said that when it sits for any length of time it seperates and one of the components is water which is not good, the other point was unless you are using metal fuel lines it can cause it to deteriorate and perish.
Interstae transports are fines as they are running thousands of km's non stop and get through the fuel but urban and a few miles week do not.
They do some interesting testing including oils, have a few big Mac engines on test benches and run them on the red line until they blow up, seize or whatever, serves a twofold purpose, shows which lubricants are longest lasting and gives the students about 10 engines to analyse and rebuild each year, they do similar tests with fuels and leave them sitting for weeks at a time to see how they deteriorate.
As it is the armed forces money seems to be no object.
(sorry about the caps lock, just noticed)

 

[David_Kb7uns]

We have no choice here in Oregon, all diesel in Oregon is B5 and many stations are pushing B20 because it is 20-30 cents cheaper because the state is forgiving the state tax on it to promote sales. One fuel sending unit replaced later and cleaning up 2 other ones and switching fuel lines to Gates Barricade Fuel Hose as they fail.

4219BG Barricade(R) Fuel Hose (35-5) [Barricade(R) Carbureted Engines] | Fuel Line Hose | Engine Hose | Fluid Power | Gates Corporation

David

 

[RalphVa]

Hello:

Was wondering what the scoop is (no pun intended) with kubota B series tractors being run on biodiesel? What are Kubota's feelings in regards to warranty?

Thanks

Eric

If you use bio or B20, be sure to change out your fuel filter after the 1st or, at most, your 2nd tankful of it. The bio will clean crud out of your fuel tank. The crud will end up in your filter.

In 32 years of running the old style diesels (220D and 240D Benzes), the ONLY time it stopped was on my 3rd tankful of B20. I called Benz to come get it because it was raining, and I didn't want to change it out myself. Had a spare filter in the trunk. Always carried the next new replacement filter in the trunk but only ever needed it that one time. Never tried it in the VW TDI, as Exxon had quit marketing it by that time.

Ralph

 

[thepumpguysc]

Ralph.. its probably a GOOD THING you didn't put it in the TDI.. they do not like it..
I've worked on thousands of those pumps just for the simple fact that the customer ran bio..
The inj. pump is "fuel oil" lubricated.. meaning the pump is full at all times w/ fuel..
& when you shut your engine down, the fuel SITS inside the pump.. & depending on usage, the fuel will separate.
& being that mdl. gets great fuel mileage, the fuel usually sits in the tank for a GOOD AMOUNT of time..
An "in-line pump" will tolerate bio fuel MUCH BETTER than a "rotary", fuel oil lubricated pump.. just for the simple fact that the fuel isn't "sitting" in the pump.. weather it be a passenger vehicle or farm equipment.. the facts/results are the same.