Kubota 47% -- John Deere 19%

[Garrett Wiggins]

How do you get "INFLATED" market share by using number of units sold? From the replies to this thread you can tell who ones what brand by their replies. I have owned a lot of John Deere tractors over the years but they have shot themselves in the foot by not producing their own small tractors made in the United States. Also, they have forced many old, smaller dealers out of business and small rural areas. Instead of traveling 20-30 minutes to a dealer you now have to travel 2 hours to a dealer in my area.

Its clear that you don't understand how the number games are played. I would be more than happy to sit down with you and explain about how all those numbers work and how you get an inflated percent based on how you pull the information. It would create more confusion to go on and on about on here.

 

[Garrett Wiggins]

It has sounded to me like the Nebraska test lab is a bit of a political tool in the tractor business. Deere funds it heavily. There are international standards and international testing labs that Kubota partisiptes with, but for some reason Nebraska chooses not to accept those results. I've heard its a very expensive and time consuming process to get at a tractor though their lab. Nebraska is not a huge market for the size equipment Kubota typically sells, so for them its made more sense to only run though the higher volume models and ignore the rest where they can't justify the expense. Every dealer has a Dyno, I can't tell you the last time I heard of any new tractor not turning at least its rated PTO HP. A company would be in court in a heartbeat.

Could you site the source where Deere funds these test heavy? Also which third party testing does Kubota use?

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Or maybe cite the site.

 

[DavesTractor]

I don't sell Kubota, in fact I sell against them. But I really doubt they fudge any HP numbers. We put one on our dyno occasionally and they will make rated HP.

 

[ovrszd]

A couple things to point out, the weight of a tractor is what is going to make a tractor work. Extra ballast is very expensive, so you would have to have to add the addition cost of the "extra ballast" to the cost of the Kubota; which is still available for the Deere if you need it. If you decided to just cheap out and use water, you lose horsepower. A few years ago Kubota got into a lot of trouble with over rating horsepower and I believe they still wont take their tractors to Nebraska to have them properly tested by an independent company like most other color of tractors. Just something to think about.

Show me a tractor, regardless of color, that works to it's fullest potential with no ballast weight??

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Could you site the source where Deere funds these test heavy? Also which third party testing does Kubota use?

Dude, you are barking up the wrong tree. Messick has pretty impeccable credibility on TBN.

 

[IslandTractor]

There is difference in their philosophy when it comes to weight. Generally raw tonage is not looked at as a good thing. Its better to start with a lighter tractor and ballast it for the application than to be stuck with a heavy machine you can't setup right for the job.

I'd agree their cabs in the higher series lack the egronomic thought and high-end feel that a CNH or Deere tractor has. You can tell CNH uses automotive designers from Fiat in their stuff. The cabs are getting near car like. Kubota is not there, but they are generally quite a bit less expensive as well. M7 is better and shows they are capable of doing it.

The upside for Kubota is that they are HP for HP better for finish mowing because of their relatively low weight. The flip side or trade off is that they achieve low weight by having less metal and part of that metal is in the front axle. Well engineered but Kubota models often have lower rated loaders than equivalent HP tractors from manufacturers like Kioti and Mahindra. And, if you look at what you get for a given number of $$$$$, virtually every tractor manufacturer other than JD beats Kubota on loader capacity.

 

[IslandTractor]

Dude, you are barking up the wrong tree. Messick has pretty impeccable credibility on TBN.

Totally credible for sure. A bit biased perhaps but then he does have kids to feed.

 

[Garrett Wiggins]

Dude, you are barking up the wrong tree. Messick has pretty impeccable credibility on TBN.

I am not barking up anyone's tree. If your going to make a claim like that i would like to see some proof of the claim. If he doesn't want to prove what he claims about Deere buying off Nebraska test, that his choice. I am sure he is a great guy and just because I disagree doesn't mean I hate them.

 

[bdog]

I don't own a kubota tractor but I have and I have owned second tier brands as well. I don't have a dog in this fight my only tractor is a 1980 Deere 4440 full size ag tractor but in the compact market kubotas are head and shoulders above the others from my experience. Yes they cost more but you get what you pay for. I ran a kubota this weekend that belongs to a friend that is 9 years old and has a lot of hours. It still runs like a top.

 

[BAP]

Its clear that you don't understand how the number games are played. I would be more than happy to sit down with you and explain about how all those numbers work and how you get an inflated percent based on how you pull the information. It would create more confusion to go on and on about on here.

Sounds like you have a big ego but offer no facts to support your claims that everyone else posting here don't know what they are talking about. You don't list what tractor you own or if you even own one but if I were to bet , you probably bleed green. Do you work for John Deere?

 

[Cavjock22]

wouldn't it be nice to have John Deere (or anyone) build something we can afford with a Cat engine and an Allison transmission?
wake me up I'm dreaming

Not gonna happen.... Even Caterpillar is using Kubota engines in some of there compact lines with success.
Sad but true. The EPA has made it so difficult and expensive for a mfg to compete that they now have to share their resources.

 

[Garrett Wiggins]

I actually own a Ford 2810 but not because I think it is the best or anything; just bought what would do the best job for the money. I bought used. Ill try to explain the market share percent again the best I can. Kubota is killing it in the lower HP tractors like up to 50hp without doubt. They hold such a high percent of market share that it can carry the higher horsepower if you try to group them all together. John Deere holds a much higher market share in the higher HP tractors that you could do the same thing with them; like saying for example Johndeere holds 47% market share from 50-150hp tractors and both claims are correct. Does that make sense? I never said Kubota didn't make a good tractor; cause they do. I do prefer green and yellow over orange unless we are talking engines in the lower HP tractors.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I actually own a Ford 2810 but not because I think it is the best or anything; just bought what would do the best job for the money. I bought used. Ill try to explain the market share percent again the best I can. Kubota is killing it in the lower HP tractors like up to 50hp without doubt. They hold such a high percent of market share that it can carry the higher horsepower if you try to group them all together. John Deere holds a much higher market share in the higher HP tractors that you could do the same thing with them; like saying for example Johndeere holds 47% market share from 50-150hp tractors and both claims are correct. Does that make sense? I never said Kubota didn't make a good tractor; cause they do. I do prefer green and yellow over orange unless we are talking engines in the lower HP tractors.

Looking at your other posts, you sure love to push the 3E series. Most likely you either own one or sell them.

 

[ovrszd]

I actually own a Ford 2810 but not because I think it is the best or anything; just bought what would do the best job for the money.

Then you bought the best tractor.

If we all had the same needs there would only be one tractor.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I am not barking up anyone's tree. If your going to make a claim like that i would like to see some proof of the claim. If he doesn't want to prove what he claims about Deere buying off Nebraska test, that his choice. I am sure he is a great guy and just because I disagree doesn't mean I hate them.

not something I have 'internet proof' of. Just things we hear in industry circles. They fund it heavily, and thus have influence.

The upside for Kubota is that they are HP for HP better for finish mowing because of their relatively low weight. The flip side or trade off is that they achieve low weight by having less metal and part of that metal is in the front axle. Well engineered but Kubota models often have lower rated loaders than equivalent HP tractors from manufacturers like Kioti and Mahindra. And, if you look at what you get for a given number of $$$$$, virtually every tractor manufacturer other than JD beats Kubota on loader capacity.

Your right that the weight is low, but its not the front axle. You have to realize that Kubota is very much a company run by the engineers rather than the marketing and sales groups. They won't setup a tractor where the axles could be loaded beyond its rated operating capacity. Other companies do that. If you take a Mahindra, ballast it and put a full load in its bucket your several hundred pounds over the ROC. An engineer won't do that. This is probably part of the reason why replacing front axle seals is probably the #1 repair you see done on compacts. Deere does this in the 3e as well. The axle specs are on their website if you wanna check. I wish more companies would publish the ROC numbers. Its common practice on material handing equipment.

 

[aczlan]

Could you site the source where Deere funds these test heavy?

Consider two things:
1. Deere has a lot of tractors tested there
2. There are limited slots available (temp/humidity/barometric pressure, etc have to be in a certain range, etc, etc)
In 2007 (per their newsletter #29), there were ~20 slots each in spring and fall, Deere had 10 tractors in the spring session and 8 in the fall. Not much room for everyone else and if they dont do a lottery, it is highly likely that Deere gets preferential treatment on testing slots.

Also which third party testing does Kubota use?

If you go to Other Manufacturers | Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory | University of Nebraska–Lincoln and pick one of the Kubotas (I chose the M5700 http://tractortestlab.unl.edu/documents/Kubota M5700.pdf ) and in the top right corner it says where the test was performed. In this case:
Institute of Agricultural Machinery
Bio-oriented Technology Research Advancement
Institution (IAM-Brain) Omiya, Japan

Aaron Z

 

[IslandTractor]

Your right that the weight is low, but its not the front axle. You have to realize that Kubota is very much a company run by the engineers rather than the marketing and sales groups. They won't setup a tractor where the axles could be loaded beyond its rated operating capacity. Other companies do that. If you take a Mahindra, ballast it and put a full load in its bucket your several hundred pounds over the ROC. An engineer won't do that. This is probably part of the reason why replacing front axle seals is probably the #1 repair you see done on compacts. Deere does this in the 3e as well. The axle specs are on their website if you wanna check. I wish more companies would publish the ROC numbers. Its common practice on material handing equipment.

Have you ever compared the size of the front axle on a Kioti DK/NX with a Grand L? The DK40 axle is considerably beefier than the Grand L3940 (not sure of the model but 39-40hp). I think that is the main reason why Kioti can put a 2760lb lift loader on while the Kubota is considerably lower rated.

In 12 years following the Kioti subforum here I don't ever recall a maintenance issue with a front axle. I assume there must be some but they also must be rare.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Have you ever compared the size of the front axle on a Kioti DK/NX with a Grand L? The DK40 axle is considerably beefier than the Grand L3940 (not sure of the model but 39-40hp). I think that is the main reason why Kioti can put a 2760lb lift loader on while the Kubota is considerably lower rated.

In 12 years following the Kioti subforum here I don't ever recall a maintenance issue with a front axle. I assume there must be some but they also must be rare.

Could be. I don't have a Kioti dealer within an hour of here and they don't attend the same trade shows we do. Its been years since I've seen a new one up close. Your supporting my point that I think it would be great if they published things like ROC, axle capacities... then you would know. Otherwise its just "that looks big" which we all know does not necessarily equal strength.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I looked at kioti before buying my L3940, I didn't like their backhoe attachment.