Kubota 3450 Owners, Clutch >Resolved<

[SPYDERLK]

Hi.
Does anyone see a way that some lube could be applied/sprayed onto the throwout bearing without splitting the tractor? The clutch is working fine but the bearing is dry. I can hear it coasting down when I take the tractor out of gear, release the clutch, and turn the engine off quickly. It coasts for several seconds unless I touch the clutch pedal and push in ~ 1". My witness port for adjusting the 2 stage clutch is covered by the loader. Anybody without a loader that can look there and see if there might be a way to hit the bearing with some lube?
Thanks!

 

[Dman1981]

Don't wait to split till eats thru fingers
Just saying

 

[SPYDERLK]

Don't wait to split till eats thru fingers
Just saying

Good point. The bearing is running freely though, judged by sound and coasting. Im on the symptoms like a hawk. Hope Im interpreting correctly. Im thinking if I could lube it at all Ill get 2 or more years of life. Maybe enough to wear out the clutch.

 

[rScotty]

Sounds to me like your throwout bearing is doing fine. Most of them are built so tight they won't coast like that. They slide and squeal instead of spinning so freely.

Or do you think that spinning for a few seconds after shifting is wearing it out?

If the sound of it free wheeling is bothersome, it may be possible to reach through the inspection hole with a long drift pin and ding the outer of the throwout bearing so it won't spin easily.

 

[Alan W.]

Dont appear to be a grease fitting.

 

[SteveS42240]

If the throw-out bearing is noisy, it is out of grease and will fail in a short time. You will be better off to change it out. While you have the tractor split, go ahead and change the clutch and pressure plate as well. I know it's an expensive solution, but it would be cheaper in the long term than waiting for it all to fail and leave you stranded.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sounds to me like your throwout bearing is doing fine. Most of them are built so tight they won't coast like that. They slide and squeal instead of spinning so freely.

Or do you think that spinning for a few seconds after shifting is wearing it out?

If the sound of it free wheeling is bothersome, it may be possible to reach through the inspection hole with a long drift pin and ding the outer of the throwout bearing so it won't spin easily.

Yeah, up to this point. It just now started making audible sound with the clutch in - then paying attention I heard the coastdown with clutch released. I think youre right that the bearing is in pretty good shape. Im not worried about the coastdown per se, but the fact that bearing rotation is audible loaded or not. Its dry. Both damping and lubrication are very important in a bearing at speed. If if jingles it is rattling components not Santa coming to fix. Maybe a little, old, stiffened, remanent grease will be shaken into the moving elements, but I know Ive gotta get some "juice" in there soon or its all over.

I have that inspection hole in mind too, to see if I might rig a way to get something into the bearing. It would be trivial to take a looksee except the Woods loader on the tractor bolts right over that inspection plate meant for making adjustments to the 2 stage clutch. I wonder if that plate is obstructed on L3450s with a Kubota loader.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP....
I have that inspection hole in mind too, to see if I might rig a way to get something into the bearing. It would be trivial to take a looksee except the Woods loader on the tractor bolts right over that inspection plate meant for making adjustments to the 2 stage clutch. I wonder if that plate is obstructed on L3450s with a Kubota loader.

I agree that your description makes it sound dry. If so, free-wheeling isn't helping.

Photos of the Woods vs Kubota loaders might tell us something.
At worst, removing a loader is easier than splitting a tractor

I've always been mystified why there wasn't decent bell housing access to all the clutch components on every machine: Trucks, Cars, and Tractors. A lot of maintenance & repair could be done if only there was better access.
AFAIK, only JD ever addressed that problem.

Steps 1 & 2: get an L3450 throwout bearing and inspect it to see what is possible.
Then figureout how the job can be vdone through the inspection cover.

 

[SPYDERLK]

View attachment 874022View attachment 874023View attachment 874024View attachment 874025View attachment 874026View attachment 874027View attachment 874028View attachment 874029View attachment 874030
Dont appear to be a grease fitting.

Excellent! Thank you for posting those shop manual pages. On your tractor, can you see that cover plate were the 2 stage clutch can be adjusted? I cant on mine w/o removing some massive parts of the Woods loader that is on my tractor. Getting there is surely worth the gamble as a last resort. -- But a 1st resort of finding somebody who has a L3450 where that cover plate is right out in the open and could open it and take a look in would be great. Can you/anybody see the throwout bearing through there?
Thanks!

 

[SPYDERLK]

I agree that your description makes it sound dry. If so, free-wheeling isn't helping.

Photos of the Woods vs Kubota loaders might tell us something.
At worst, removing a loader is easier than splitting a tractor

I've always been mystified why there wasn't decent bell housing access to all the clutch components on every machine: Trucks, Cars, and Tractors. A lot of maintenance & repair could be done if only there was better access.
AFAIK, only JD ever addressed that problem.

Steps 1 & 2: get an L3450 throwout bearing and inspect it to see what is possible.
Then figureout how the job can be vdone through the inspection cover.

The bearing definitely has clearance with the clutch out. The audible freewheel coast to a stop is really just the happenstance indicating the adequate clearance and the sound the dryness. Yeah, If there was only a grease fitting. The shop manual linked by Alan W. refers to "change or lubricate" a noisey bearing. No info I see on lubing it. MAYBE theres some way apparent behind that cover. Kubota would probably not provide an external grease point. ... Youve heard? "If a littles good a lot is better, and too much is just right." Doesnt work near a dry clutch!

 

[Alan W.]

I have a 3650GST so mine has the single stage clutch and access is not good.
But the clutch is only used to engage the pto for the most part on a GST trans so hopefully it will last a long time.
My shop manual includes your model so ifn ya need any pages let me know.

 

[azbinder]

I've replaced quite a few Kubota clutches and don't recall being able to lubricate the throwout bearing. Would always put always put a light film of grease on the carrier sleeve though.

 

[jaxs]

Sounds to me like your throwout bearing is doing fine. Most of them are built so tight they won't coast like that. They slide and squeal instead of spinning so freely.

Or do you think that spinning for a few seconds after shifting is wearing it out?

If the sound of it free wheeling is bothersome, it may be possible to reach through the inspection hole with a long drift pin and ding the outer of the throwout bearing so it won't spin easily.

Even if THAT IS POSSIBLE it's a terrible ideal. Interfering with bearing freely spinning will cause unnecessary binding and wear when clutch is pressed and bearing is heavily engaged with pressure plate.

Listen for squeal/grinding when clutch is pushed which is the common indication bearing gone/going out and need to replace. On a hst tranny the bearing could easily last for years longer than manual geared tranny. By-passing clutch safety to allow starting hst tractor without holding clutch down might be a hack to consider.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Even if THAT IS POSSIBLE it's a terrible ideal. Interfering with bearing freely spinning will cause [[unnecessary binding and wear]] when clutch is pressed and bearing is heavily engaged with pressure plate.

Listen for squeal/grinding when clutch is pushed which is the common indication bearing gone/going out and need to replace. On a hst tranny the bearing could easily last for years longer than manual geared tranny. By-passing clutch safety to allow starting hst tractor without holding clutch down might be a hack to consider.

[[Yeah. I think rScotty interpreted my concerns, as originally stated, a little different than I meant.]]

Good word; hack. Several would be pretty easy if this were not a 2 stage clutch. That bearing has to put up with brief "feathering" and elevated rpm on occasion to start a heavy implement. We are alert and on the case though. It is my wifes go to tractor.

I will start assembling a setup to gracefully remove the part of the Woods loader frame that covers 2stage clutch adjustment access. I suspect/hope I will be able to see and rig getting some lube to the t/o bearing there. If not Ill have to be ready to remove the loader and drive the tractor to the shop for split. -- While I can fix and rig stuff pretty well, and its actually fun and satisfying if you can be unhurried, I wont take on a split in the omnipresent busy-ness of a farm.

Its all up to what can be seen behind that cover on the right of the flywheel housing case referred on page 5.2.10 of the shop manual linked in an above post by Alan W.

Anybody have an L3450 or a friend with one?​

 

[boatmoter]

Hi.
Does anyone see a way that some lube could be applied/sprayed onto the throwout bearing without splitting the tractor? The clutch is working fine but the bearing is dry. I can hear it coasting down when I take the tractor out of gear, release the clutch, and turn the engine off quickly. It coasts for several seconds unless I touch the clutch pedal and push in ~ 1". My witness port for adjusting the 2 stage clutch is covered by the loader. Anybody without a loader that can look there and see if there might be a way to hit the bearing with some lube?
Thanks!

no way to get to the bearing without splitting the tractor. and the bearing is also a sealed bearing

 

[Dman1981]

Takes a couple hours to split one it's not a big deal

 

[SPYDERLK]

I finished haying for the moment and this freed some time for the tractor and me.

Ive gotten the righthand loader mount out of the way uncovering the 2 stage adjustment port, and also removed the clutch case breather next to it. The throwout bearing is visible through the breather port. Im working on lubing it. I will post pics when I get it all worked out.

 

[5030]

[[Yeah. I think rScotty interpreted my concerns, as originally stated, a little different than I meant.]]

Good word; hack. Several would be pretty easy if this were not a 2 stage clutch. That bearing has to put up with brief "feathering" and elevated rpm on occasion to start a heavy implement. We are alert and on the case though. It is my wifes go to tractor.

I will start assembling a setup to gracefully remove the part of the Woods loader frame that covers 2stage clutch adjustment access. I suspect/hope I will be able to see and rig getting some lube to the t/o bearing there. If not Ill have to be ready to remove the loader and drive the tractor to the shop for split. -- While I can fix and rig stuff pretty well, and its actually fun and satisfying if you can be unhurried, I wont take on a split in the omnipresent busy-ness of a farm.

Its all up to what can be seen behind that cover on the right of the flywheel housing case referred on page 5.2.10 of the shop manual linked in an above post by Alan W.

Anybody have an L3450 or a friend with one?​

Think I'd take a plasma cutter or a metal saw and remove the blocking crossmember and the drill and tap the stub ends as well as add a piece to the cut off frame and bolt it back up. Sounds a lot easier than removing the loader to me. Just use Grade 5 or stronger fasteners. Now if that was mine and being the certified welder I am, I'd cut it out and reweld the piece back in using MIG high amperage globular transfer.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Think I'd take a plasma cutter or a metal saw and remove the blocking crossmember and the drill and tap the stub ends as well as add a piece to the cut off frame and bolt it back up. Sounds a lot easier than removing the loader to me. Just use Grade 5 or stronger fasteners. Now if that was mine and being the certified welder I am, I'd cut it out and reweld the piece back in using MIG high amperage globular transfer.

The righthand loader frame upright bolts directly over the access port for adjusting the 2stage clutch, displacing the original cover. It is a major structural mounting point. Fortunately 2stage adjustment is very seldom needed. And In my case that port is not what leads to a view of the throwout bearing anyway. Turns out that view is afforded through the clutchcase breather, a bolt on fitting in the open, a few inches rearward of the adjustment port.

I have been able to lube the bearing using aerosol Chain Guard, a relative of Chain Wax. The bearing is now smooth and quiet. The oily coating on the bearing elements causes the damping and slight drag normally present in a lubed bearing. I think it is a relatively long term solution. Im currently working to refine kluge application so Ill be able to re lube efficiently ~ yearly, by feel because that loader frame left mounted does prevent a direct angle to see in.

I will take pics before I close it up.

 

[5030]

Interestingly, neither of the LA Kubota loaders on either of my M9, block access to the clutch access covers at all, not that it's needed because it's not with the hydraulic shuttle, wet pack clutches, the is nothing in either bell housings but a damper plate to mitigate shock load on the engine crankshaft as well as the transmission input shaft and it never needs maintenance, so I've never even looked in there. The main reason why I got them with hydraulic shuttles. Only 'adjustment' is the lock up pressure on the internal clutch pack and mine is always in factory spec. You do need a special fitting and liquid filled gage to check it but I have that. Same adapter is used to check the hydraulic pressure on the external hydraulics as well so it's a multi use adapter and any Parker hydraulic outlet or Motion Industries will have them in stock or should.