Korean tractor dilemma

[Saucymynx]

There was never a question. There is a racial bias against Koreans similar to that against Japanese in the 70s. Lots of unsubstantiated claims and inuendo.

TYM and Daedong (Kioti) are not new to the business. They are also not related to the auto mfgs. Assuming the tractors are anything like Daewoo is ignorant of the manufacturers in question. Modern KIAs have better reliability data than US nameplates. Hyundai has also been better than average lately.

The author of this thread started their very first post with a question: “ Do i try for lucky #3 and get a kioti to replace the ls , or do i buy a used kubota or massey and live with the weaker loaders and deal with the crappy loader joy stick location?”

Separately, as you can see from my profile, I do not have a bias against Korean tractors, nor do I have a bias against Koreans at all

 

[paulsharvey]

The author of this thread started their very first post with a question: “ Do i try for lucky #3 and get a kioti to replace the ls , or do i buy a used kubota or massey and live with the weaker loaders and deal with the crappy loader joy stick location?”

Separately, as you can see from my profile, I do not have a bias against Korean tractors, nor do I have a bias against Koreans at all

So, a Massey MF 1835M, and the M is the key part; doesn't have the "crappy loader joystick"; Kioti makes good machines; But, mine, brand new; had loose bolts, a front axle pivot that was gorilla tight, preventing the axle from pivoting, and currently I think a venting issue on the fuel cap. Maybe Kubota would be better, but Kubota/Massey also have infant mortality issues as well.

When we talk about used; I'm guessing you'll need to go to maybe 10 year old Kubota to match the price; and parts should be easy to get, for the next 10 years; but some parts will be difficult to source at around 20 years old and older. I don't mean all parts; but certain very specific parts will be hard to track down, and/or will be on the slow boat from China.

There really isn't a "good" answer; but, assuming other then the current repair issue on the LS, the machine suites you; I'd keep it.

 

[Sid Post]

Separately, as you can see from my profile, I do not have a bias against Korean tractors, nor do I have a bias against Koreans at all

The biggest issue for me is dealer support. LS branded tractors may be great but, without dealer support they have no value to me for something I need to rely on.

Like your MT-7, I looked at a Mahindra that was a ~95hp tractor with a great price. The first problem for me was the lack of forward visibility with the loader installed. Sure it looked strong with those huge box beams and tall structure but, I might as well have worn a blindfold. How you would move or move round bales with it was a mystery!

USA made Mahindra tractors in the SCUT and UT class are solid machines IF YOU HAVE GOOD DEALER SUPPORT.

Kukje-Branson/TYM, Kioti/Daedong, and LS are all viable choices if you have good dealer support. Locally, there is a lot of love for Branson tractors but, for me, Mahindra SCUT/CUT is a better choice because of dealer support assuming we are talking about the tractors made in the USA for the USA market as the made-in-India tractors seem to be modeled after 1950's vintage JD, IHC, etc. options.

 

[Dftodd]

I'm happy with my Kioti, but on your list you have the MF1825E. Might be worth looking at the MF 1835M, it's a more premium machine, and priced like one, but was some pretty nice features compared to the 18E series.

Also; 3 months for an HST repair, I assume under warranty? That seems like a Very long time for the repair.

I have the Massey 1825E. Only 32 hrs on it so far. But I've been extremely happy with mine.

Granted I went from a 40yo 15hp Grey market kubota so the 1825E feels like I'm running around in a Cadillac

 

[IndyIan]

If the prices are pretty close for the same tractor, I would get a Kubota even though my Kioti has been good. In 2011 though, a new Kubota for the same price as my tractor was a couple sizes down at ~2200lbs and probably gear drive. So it wasn't going to do the jobs for me.
I've found my Kioti pretty good at 900hr now, no chinczy parts really other than a cheap positive lead that corroded to fast. Really the only future issues coming are the stuff on it from the US, which is the loader and the tires. The loader pins have worn a bit looser than I think they should, and the front tires are sidewall cracking(not leaky yet). Thankfully the rears are fine!
In hindsight, given the amount of dirt moving I do, I probably should've got a L39 TLB but even back then in 2011 a used L39 at the same price as the new DK40SE was very used and I had little tractor experience to evaluate something very used...
If I had to get a new tractor, I would look at the Kioti NS which is back to the less electronics simplicity of the DKSE series, and hopefully as robust.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

I'd prefer a tractor that's made in the USA or Japan (based on other products I've bought), but would consider other brands that are made in Korea or elsewhere.

Kioti had my interest, as they make all their own parts, but the nearest dealer is 300 miles away.

I went to the TYM dealer that was about 75 miles away and was told they were having problems with their turbo models at elevation. They were having to de-tune the engines to work around the problem. I'm at 6,800ft ASL and want a turbo, so that's a hard pass from me on TYM.

In the end I went with Kobota as the dealership was close and I got a deal on a low hour used tractor. I don't expect it to be perfect (just look at the crappy fading paint on these premium priced tractors), but I'm taking an educated guess that it should give me less trouble than some of the other brands, but who really knows? I figure if I'm not happy with it, I can sell it for what I paid for it in a few years. Can't do that, paying retail, for a brand new globally sourced tractor!

 

[Dftodd]

Are the L series really intended for ground engagement in the field or heavy lifting? They are more intended for large estate maintenance and the M series are intended for the tasks you mention.

We used an L2250 for 112 acres. Had a forestry winch we used for logging in the winter. Mowed probably 150 acres worth of fields with it every summer.

Dad had a construction buisiness, and had several fields that he mowed yearly.

A 25hp tractor will maintain that land. It just won't do it as fast as an M.

 

[Dftodd]

LS is building the Massey compact now in many cases. Iseki builds the subcompact, or used to.

Not sure if it is still Iseki now.

1825 is manufactured by agco in Indonesia.

Here's the serial number tag.

 

[jyoutz]

We used an L2250 for 112 acres. Had a forestry winch we used for logging in the winter. Mowed probably 150 acres worth of fields with it every summer.

Dad had a construction buisiness, and had several fields that he mowed yearly.

A 25hp tractor will maintain that land. It just won't do it as fast as an M.

An L is great for mowing. I was referring to ground engaging implements and heavy loader lifts. This was in response to the post that stated those were faults of the L series. I was pointing out that the L series is primarily designed for estate maintenance duties, not heavy ground engagement or lifting. Yes, you can do all of those things you mention and I used to mow 20 acres with a 25hp JD tractor. But that’s not the intended design purpose and indeed it’s slow with a 4’ rotary cutter.

 

[Dftodd]

An L is great for mowing. I was referring to ground engaging implements and heavy loader lifts. This was in response to the post that stated those were faults of the L series. I was pointing out that the L series is primarily designed for estate maintenance duties, not heavy ground engagement or lifting. Yes, you can do all of those things you mention and I used to mow 20 acres with a 25hp JD tractor. But that’s not the intended design purpose and indeed it’s slow with a 4’ rotary cutter.

We ran a 60" brush hog. But the majority was with a 72" sickle bar mower.

 

[IndyIan]

We ran a 60" brush hog. But the majority was with a 72" sickle bar mower.

I find sickle bar mowers interesting as they take hardly any hp. I could zip around with a 9' haybine in mid range with my tractor and the only thing slowing it down in heavy grass was how fast the rollers could get stuff through without clogging...
I never see one in good shape for reasonable money or I would try one.

 

[Dftodd]

I find sickle bar mowers interesting as they take hardly any hp. I could zip around with a 9' haybine in mid range with my tractor and the only thing slowing it down in heavy grass was how fast the rollers could get stuff through without clogging...
I never see one in good shape for reasonable money or I would try one.

Yeah, they are definitely hard to find.

The one my dad used was originally mounted on an old Farmall A, and was probably purchased with my great uncles A to maintain his fields

It was already old when I was a kid

But a packet of teeth were readily available at the ag store in town when they needed replacing.

It was still being used every summer back around 2,000. Pretty sure he sold it to his neighbor along with the wood splitter when they sold the farm and moved to Arkansas.

 

[JeepHead]

Last year when I purchased my tractor, I had full intentions of considering one of the cheap Korean made tractors. I had been talking to a TYM dealer and mentioned that to someone I know that is a tractor mechanic. He highly suggested that I do my research before I made the purchase and explained his experience with them (which was not good). So then I took a step back and researched like crazy everything I could find out about all of the different brands of Korean made tractors. I even discovered some of the big-name brands were selling rebranded Korean tractors that they slapped their own name on. Ultimately, I put more value on the end product, including future support years down the road, than I did on the initial cost or “bang for buck”. I wasn’t willing to save a few bucks now that could potentially cost me much more in the future. There is a reason why I chose a Honda Rubicon ATV over a new CF Moto for thousands less, too. I chose a Kubota because I felt it offered the best value for my $. I would make the same choice again tomorrow.

 

[ArlyA]

I agree, tractors and other machines are not made with the quality.

 

[caleb90]

I have pretty much made up my mind, that when i get my tractor back. I will be putting it up for sale, will end up buying a used name brand unit. I made out ok when i traded my tym in, paid 23g for it and put 75hr on it and did alot with the backhoe. I got 20g for trade in, for the amount i had used it i felt like i broke even on the deal. See what happens with this tractor when i go to sell

 

[JeepHead]

I have pretty much made up my mind, that when i get my tractor back. I will be putting it up for sale, will end up buying a used name brand unit. I made out ok when i traded my tym in, paid 23g for it and put 75hr on it and did alot with the backhoe. I got 20g for trade in, for the amount i had used it i felt like i broke even on the deal. See what happens with this tractor when i go to sell

When did you buy it and sell it? If you purchased it pre-covid and sold after the massive price increase, that could play a huge part in what you got out of it used. I bought a new Jeep before covid and sold it during covid for more than we paid new.

 

[rumwrks]

Yeah, they are definitely hard to find.

If you look enough you can eventually get "lucky". I recently snagged an old Massey 7' in.. well.. I'll be honest it's not in super great shape but it is, I believe, very recoverable. But it was only $175 and it was less than 10 minutes drive away so it definitely followed me home. Most of the rust is on the bar with only a little on the lower moving bits so it's getting a periodic acetone/transmission fluid bath over the winter in anticipation of being able to pull out the bar and replace the cutters in the spring. I'm hoping with a bit of grease, new set of cutters and a couple replacement guards it'll be good to go, we'll see how it looks as I get things freed up.

For the OP's question.. There are definitely trade offs.. and some of the Korean tractors are better than others (even within a given manufacturer). I recently ordered a Branson (Tym) 5520H to be a big buddy to my little bota that should be on property next week. I also looked at a Kubota MX and a used grand L and some other used MX and M series. I'd have bought the older used grand L if the seller hadn't skeezed me out, it was objectively a smoother/nicer tractor. I also looked hard at some of the other second tier offerings and felt the 20 series Branson had relatively low complaint ratios, and generally historically "not bad" build quality (most of the complaints were things I could mostly live with). It was a cost/benefit trade off and I'll see with time if I made the right call or not.

There have definitely been missteps by the majors as well, the original Kubota L3301 is a good example, I'd never buy one of those the DPF/engine sizing is bad and they have a lot of clogging problems. Similarly if you're looking at a used Deere 1023/1025 you better make sure the front axle has been fixed.

I also preferentially wouldn't buy a Deere at this point due to their anti-consumer stance on right-to-repair. This is both a political point and not.. I generally prefer working on my own equipment when possible because I know what's been done and I don't have to fine tooth someone else's work afterwards to make sure they didn't mess it up - yes I have trust problems, but also I've been burned by yahoos who didn't fix things right as well from shops I thought I could trust.. I suppose if you only use stuff in warranty and only go to the dealer.. but I'm a drive it until it dies person). I've also found some disturbingly loose bolts and missing parts on my little Kubota. I DID buy the bota used but the PO wasn't exactly what I'd call a mechanic so I'm 99% blaming his dealer for doing a half-assed job on servicing it...

Are you MORE likely to have problems with a second tier tractor? Possibly.. in either case I'd be looking at models a couple years old that have had more of the kinks worked out and were you can get actual in-use reviews..

 

[TractorTYMe]

If you look enough you can eventually get "lucky". I recently snagged an old Massey 7' in.. well.. I'll be honest it's not in super great shape but it is, I believe, very recoverable. But it was only $175 and it was less than 10 minutes drive away so it definitely followed me home. Most of the rust is on the bar with only a little on the lower moving bits so it's getting a periodic acetone/transmission fluid bath over the winter in anticipation of being able to pull out the bar and replace the cutters in the spring. I'm hoping with a bit of grease, new set of cutters and a couple replacement guards it'll be good to go, we'll see how it looks as I get things freed up.

For the OP's question.. There are definitely trade offs.. and some of the Korean tractors are better than others (even within a given manufacturer). I recently ordered a Branson (Tym) 5520H to be a big buddy to my little bota that should be on property next week. I also looked at a Kubota MX and a used grand L and some other used MX and M series. I'd have bought the older used grand L if the seller hadn't skeezed me out, it was objectively a smoother/nicer tractor. I also looked hard at some of the other second tier offerings and felt the 20 series Branson had relatively low complaint ratios, and generally historically "not bad" build quality (most of the complaints were things I could mostly live with). It was a cost/benefit trade off and I'll see with time if I made the right call or not.

There have definitely been missteps by the majors as well, the original Kubota L3301 is a good example, I'd never buy one of those the DPF/engine sizing is bad and they have a lot of clogging problems. Similarly if you're looking at a used Deere 1023/1025 you better make sure the front axle has been fixed.

I also preferentially wouldn't buy a Deere at this point due to their anti-consumer stance on right-to-repair. This is both a political point and not.. I generally prefer working on my own equipment when possible because I know what's been done and I don't have to fine tooth someone else's work afterwards to make sure they didn't mess it up - yes I have trust problems, but also I've been burned by yahoos who didn't fix things right as well from shops I thought I could trust.. I suppose if you only use stuff in warranty and only go to the dealer.. but I'm a drive it until it dies person). I've also found some disturbingly loose bolts and missing parts on my little Kubota. I DID buy the bota used but the PO wasn't exactly what I'd call a mechanic so I'm 99% blaming his dealer for doing a half-assed job on servicing it...

Are you MORE likely to have problems with a second tier tractor? Possibly.. in either case I'd be looking at models a couple years old that have had more of the kinks worked out and were you can get actual in-use reviews..

The TYM 5520 is an awesome tractor, if I decide to upgrade I might go for this from my T474 with 534 trouble free hours. The Kukje engine is simply awesome due to its mechanical injection and simplicity. The T474 is paid off in a year, so I think I will just keep it around for the forseeable future.

 

[kozal01]

I think its a bit unfair to lump all korean tractors into the same boat. I own a Kioti 25 hp compact but I am not a brand fanboy, I looked at all the big names I could see in person and compared specs, weight, price, ergonomics, build quality, parts/ dealer support among other aspects. I got WAY more tractor for my money from Kioti than JD, Kubota and even LS and I laughed at the build quality of some of them, the LS looked so cheap and not as heavily built as the Kioti. (they were next to each other on the lot, night and day difference) TYM/ Branson had some decent specs, price was ok but the dealer was far away and I didn't like the ergonomics and features. JD can shove it with their proprietary quick change BS and dismal lift capacity, Kubota was nice and looking at the castings, welds and general build quality it was not any better than I could see with the Kioti and it had less capacity, weighed less and was way more expensive. I refuse to pay a massive markup to get a "brand name" for some perceived reliability difference or status related to a brand. I know dealer support is big and locations vary per region but I would pass two Kioti dealers many miles before I get to a Kubota or JD dealer and I have had no issues getting parts for my Kioti. At the end of the day though, everyone's results will vary so you have to do what works best for your situation. I just know that if I had to do it again I would buy another Kioti in a heartbeat. Put 100 hours on mine in just over a year and besides a 24 hour stay at the dealer for an injection pump adjustment its been flawless. Luck of the draw I suppose.

 

[tradosaurus]

So im 2 for 2 on korea tractors being lemons. Tym first and had issues right at 9hr, wanted a bigger tractor and the tym put a bad taste in my mouth. So i went with ls the second time around, this one made it 49hr before going back to the dealer. The ls will have to be split and i expect for it to be gone 3 months at the least as it needs a new hst pump. I could keep it, but im the type of person that when a piece of equipment or vehicle fails that bad or needs that much work. I would never trust it and would continue to have resentment over it. So that being said i will most likly sell when i get it back and buy new. I really like how the korean tractors get you more for the money, and they really do out pace kubota john deere and massey in the loader department. But im really getting tired of messing with them due to subpar quality. Do i try for lucky #3 and get a kioti to replace the ls , or do i buy a used kubota or massey and live with the weaker loaders and deal with the crappy loader joy stick location?

I'm not sure this is an accurate statement. I believe Kubota sets the hydraulic pressure to keep people from lifting more than is safe.
Also with the right amount of ballast a Kubota will perform just as well as any other brand.
Buy once. Cry once.