Knuckle Seal and more ym2000bd

[driceman]

So I decided to go after some leaks I have on my front end 4wd on my 2000bd. The Lucas Hub Oil sealer helped for a while but the problem has progressed to an intolerable point for me. When I cleaned it up to find the leak a long while back, I had it narrowed to the knuckle seals. I searched pretty intensely for tips but didn't really find anything specific to a 2000d. My biggest initial fear was that I was going to drop the lower section and a heaping rain of bits was going to pour out. I worked up the courage and was pleasantly surprised that the vertical shaft slid right out from the lower housing with the only loose part was the spacer #51 on the internal exploded drawing. Seemed simple enough so I already ordered the seals from Hoye. Anyway, I got the one side dropped but I'm thinking on closer inspection that the "hub housing face" is leaking also. Where the big 6 bolts hold it to the housing. So I was wondering if anyone knows how to separate that face from the housing? Does the hub/axle have to be pulled first? And if so, how? I've got a puller if needed but I need to know what to pull and whether or not there are any clips and such to remove before hand. I don't see anything obvious other than the 6 big bolts. Any help is very appreciated.

 

[winston1]

Take the six bolts out and it will come right out, gear and all. Are you sure the axle seal is not leaking. Would be unusual for that gasket to leak unless bolts were loose.

 

[clemsonfor]

There are many posts on that knuckle. Probably not on a 2000bd but I think k a few 187s maybe a 1500? It's all basically the same design. These are simple tractors and yanmar did not reinvent the wheel with each one.

 

[driceman]

Thanks for the insight Winston. I gave it a quick try yesterday after removing the 6 bolts but it didn't want to come off with some light tapping although it does appear to have some sort of gasket sealant that is in the seam that may be holding it. I'll get a bit more aggressive with my tapping now that I know nothing else should be holding it. As far as the wheel seals, it doesn't seem to be leaking from there but I am considering replacing them out of paranoia. The Hoye diagram seems to show 2 seals in there and an o-ring. being #5,6,7 . That #6 seems pretty pricey. Will it be necessary to replace both #5 and #6 during replacement if the condition of #6 seems good? Also, are there any tricks to replacing them? I assume so far that it may just be the snap rings to take off in order to pull the axle and get to the seals? I'm trying to take pics as I go along so that I can post them when I finish so anyone else in the future will have a good 2000d reference.

 

[clemsonfor]

I have a VN recon, not sure the history of yours, but whatever they sealed all the gaskets and joints up with on this tractor is mostly good stuff if they prepped the surface. Its more like a glue. You basically rip the gasket paper off leaving sealant residue and paper on each surface. It takes some force to break the seal that they make. So I have to pry or beat pretty hard with a dead blow to break the seal that their gaskets have.

 

[winston1]

The condition of #6 the seal collar would determine if it needs replacing. There will be a couple of dowel pins holding the cover aligned. Need to come straight off with it. Sharpened screwdriver or similar might help you wedge it off.

 

[clemsonfor]

I replace the seal collar on most of the stuff I have worked on. I am all the way in there at that point I may as well do it. I would hate to do it all and not spend the $10 or 15 on the collar (price of the ones on things I have worked on so far) and have a leak again.

When I did wheel seals both sides needed new collars. When I did the brake shaft seal the collar on that one was fine but again I replaced it because I had bought the part at that point and its just not worth my time to not install it in there to have all new parts. I kept the old one so that I have a spare if I ever need it but it will last 20 more years I am sure. I am just a hoarder (according to my wife) and keep things that I think I would need.

 

[driceman]

Thanks for the help so far. Those #6 collars are $36 each at Hoye . The seals #5 are $11 each (which seems resonable). Unless yall know of a cheaper place to get those collars, it signifigantly raises the cost of this repair. Thats the main reason I'm asking about it. Already got $80 in knuckle seals that should arrive today. Either way, I'm about to put some serious persuasion on the cover and see what I find.

 

[clemsonfor]

Ok yea I would tear it down first and look. You can tell. There smooth if there fine. Bad they will either be seriously pitted, or have a score line in them. If there smooth I would just lightly sand them with like 800 grit paper or emory cloth and put them back in or do nothing if they look new or perfect.

 

[driceman]

So I'll give yall the best news first. My knuckle seals showed up today. I'll do a comparison pic when I go to install them (big difference in wear). Better news is I got the cover off (using the Force as they say in StarWars). So I'm gonna post in increments now since I lack the knowledge to post multiple pics in one post and comment on each. So #1 I got the "chunk cover" as I will call it "the split". As you can see the orange colored goop they used was like super glue but I had some sort of leakage there from the other pic ( hard to see but its dry around the axle seal but wet around the seam I was describing earlier

 

[driceman]

The next thing was cleaning the gasket surface on the "chunk" side. Now I'm glad I bought the $10 Harbor Freight angle grinder with the $8 set of surfacing pads pic#1. The next pic is of after 2 min using said tool on the "chunk"....nice and clean. The last pic is of an area on that surface that looks like perhaps a casting or machining flaw in the surface that may or may not have been the cause of the leak.

 

[driceman]

On the other half, I got the big gear staring me in the face pic#1. Then I decide to take the lock nut off using an itty bitty flathead screwdriver and a few taps of the hammer I got the 2 tabs that were folded over to "lock" straightened enough to get the nut off by hand. (worried a bit about torque specs a little at this point but eh its just a tractor right?)pic#2. Then I took a pic of the big gear once I slid it off the axle and laid it face down being pic #3 here. I assume the bearing on it is pressed since I couldn't move it off the gear. It moves freely and smooth so I'm not gonna mess with it.

 

[driceman]

Now I'm down to looking into the hub again pic#1. Saw a collar looking thing and decided to tug on it. It slid right off and I think that is #8 on the diagram. That looks good pic #2. Finally for tonight, I'm staring at the infamous snap ring for the wheel bearing just beyond #8 and.... I have just realized I have the worst snap ring pliers known to mankind (harbor freight strikes again). So I'm at a standstill till I get some decent snap ring pliers. And so we plod onwards.

 

[California]

...The last pic is of an area on that surface that looks like perhaps a casting or machining flaw in the surface that may or may not have been the cause of the leak.
View attachment 505958View attachment 505959View attachment 505960

That gouge by the hammer handle? Maybe that's where the VN 'rebuild' tech jammed in a chisel or something to take it apart. (Then he may have installed 'just good enough' used seals to make the tractor salable.)

 

[clemsonfor]

I think all snap ring pliars suck. I have some snap on and Mac or mat Co and they suck too.

I have just used silicone on most all my mating surfaces.

If that seal cola is as smooth as it looks I wouldn't replace it. If it's grooved I would. I haven't looked at the diagram but if there is an original behind that collar make sure your replace it though.

 

[driceman]

I'm hoping it won't be a huge deal with a new gasket and a lot of black Permatex. It held for 3 years while I owned it so its gotta last for a few minutes. Also, I did notice about 3 of those bolts had virtually no torque on them as well. ****, in hindsight I may could have torqued them all back up and have been fine. But now I'm in deep. Might as well do the wheel seal. IF I CAN FIND A DECENT SET OF SNAP RING PLIERS IN THIS TOWN!. Sorry don't mean to yell but I hate getting stopped by bad tools. Waiting on parts I can live with.

 

[clemsonfor]

I get what your saying and I don't take it your yelling at any of us.

I would tear it down as well. I bet torqing it would do no good other than slow it. The oil already had a path through a broken gasket. Just a thin layer of RTAV on each surface and follow the directions should be all you need, no gasket is needed. And do the seal, the collar appears to be fine IF you say that surface is smooth.

 

[driceman]

Oh definitely not yelling at you guys. However I do have some choice words for whoever designed Harbor Freight's snap ring pliers. Anyway, I don't think I'm going to find a decent pair today due to some Easter obligations. BTW Happy Easter to you all. I might swing by Northern Tool just so see if they have anything better but thats about all today. However, I was thinking why I would really need to remove the snap ring since I'm not concerned with replacing that bearing in there. Looking at the photo Hoye has of part #4 (the stub axle), it seems that the axle should slide out at this point and I would be able to just replace the seal and O-ring on the wheel side then reassemble. I've tried to hit it out some with a piece of scrap wood to protect the threads but it doesn't want to go. If the bearing is pressed on the axle I don't see how I could even get a puller in a position to do any work. Any thoughts?

 

[kenmac]

If it's any help. The last and current pr I bought came from sears. Craftsman brand. They work pretty good

 

[driceman]

So here is the update. I found a set of Sears craftsman snap ring pliers for $25 pic 1. Home Depot had a set of Chan-L-Lok brand for $6 more and they looked like they came out of the same factory. Anyway, as I stated earlier, I had my doubts as to whether I even needed to remove the snap rings to get to the seal. Turns out, I didn't. The snap rings only need to be removed if you are replacing the bearing. At the time I was still unsure of this, I went ahead and removed the first one that I could get to, pic 2. It took several attempts and the pliers I bought were almost too fat at the hinge to get down into the hub. I actually had to flip the largest tips around to get a more secure grip on the holes on the ring. Many attempts later, I finally got it out by holding my mouth just right. At that point, there was nothing to grab the bearing out so I placed a piece of scrap wood on top of my vise and started banging the whole assembly axle end down, wheel side facing up in order to either get the bearing to drop out or the axle to drive out of the hub. A few beatings later, the axle came sliding out. With the axle out, the seal was ready for plucking pic 3 (I got a little ahead of myself with pics, it is already out). It only took a cheap flathead screwdriver and a hammer to drive into the edge of the seal and then pryed it out pretty easy. pic 4 is the seal.