Kioti vs Kubota

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

( ( Dargo dislikes Kioti's no matter how you slice it. )

We've lost enough members because of Kioti obsession. )

Agree completely!!

Dargo · Dec 19, 2005

( Dargo,

I hope things work out. I took advantage of just such a deal and have not regretted it for a moment. )

I'm obviously working along that same path. As you can see in this thread however, a few on TBN have done more to "un-sell" me on Kioti than anything else. Gmsssi is right on the money too. I did ask questions of him this last summer in private. They had to be asked in private because any concerns about a Kioti here on this board are met with venom and downright hatred.

I'm very picky about my equipment. I won't even buy a tractor that has sat outside on a dealer's lot. If that is the tractor I want, I'll order a new one that has not sat outside for months. In the past, when I've asked questions in public here about issues that I was not sure if they were quality control issues or dealer quality issues, I've been attacked as a Kioti hater. If wanting what I buy to be the best expenditure of my money possible is a quality that makes me a "Kioti-hater", so be it.

Sure, I had my doubts about the brand like most anyone else who has never heard of it, but being met with outright hostility immediately turned me off from the brand, figuring that those people were desperately trying to defend their "wrong" decision to buy one. Fortunately I was able to pick out some of the good features from the guys here who are not from the rabid brain dead pack. I learned quite a bit from those guys and that is why Kioti seems to be at the top of my list for a third tractor that I plan to leave at my other property. There is always a lag time between becoming a quality brand and the price and resale value catching up; kinda like a window of opportunity. It looks like that time is now for Kioti.

That's the way I see it and, for better or worse, I always call it the way I see it. Hopefully the ugly personal attack post is allowed to stay here. It it a "case in point" of the crowd that turns people off from the Kioti brand.

orangebluegreen · Dec 19, 2005

( They all claim to have saved "thousands" over a comparable Kubota. )

That’s the one claim I too see constantly. I also believe some Kioti salesmen throw that out to customers who have not yet shopped Kubota. If you have an over priced Kubota dealer this may be true, AND it might be closer to true in the bigger machines, but this summer as I priced both Kioti and Kubota, Carver gave me a price on a CK20 that was $500. more than a B7510 equipped with 60” MMM and loaders...same dealer sells both so one can’t blame location. Looks to me Kioti is possibly a better loader box blade machine and Kubota a better mowing machine due to all the reasons that have been talked about in other threads. I will say the Kioti is VERY comfortable as far as layout and seat, pedal, etc. The thing that bothers me is without the name recognition and parts being just down the street, and basically asking us to be their test, they need to reward us with a MUCH lower price than Kubota. IF I found a CK20 HST rear discharge MMM and Kioti loader (that lifts higher than Kubota’s) AND it was priced thousands less, I would go for it......but to me the same price or more doesn’t make sense, and yes I too have seen resale lower on Kioti than Kubota....believe me, I cuss at Kubota resale prices every day....all I want is a B2410 for 5K!!!!

BTW...I agree Neil seems to be a very straight forward guy. It must be a real pain to read all this stuff on here and take time to respond to people, but he does and is honest with his comments. What one usually gets from dealers is a political answer that leaves out the bad parts and paints the good with emphasis, I don’t see that here.

orangebluegreen · Dec 19, 2005

( I personally came within a day of buying a Kubota 7510 until I rechecked prices with my local Kioti dealer and stumbled onto a slighted used CK20 that was too good a deal to pass up. )

These are the types of quotes that continue the fuel because without actual dollar numbers mentioned, it is impossible to judge a good deal. Not targeting you, I and most others are also guilty....I have the numbers just don’t always feel like digging them up for a post. But to say things like my tractor was a far better deal than that brand without an absolute dollar figure is what continues the debate.

( Indeed, I dare say that the naive and gullible first time buyers (not TBN users ) just walk into a JD or Kubota dealership and buy whatever the salesman talks them into. )

Absolutely agree, it is probably the reason I feel almost ALL tractors are over priced.

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

( this summer as I priced both Kioti and Kubota, Carver gave me a price on a CK20 that was $500. more than a B7510 equipped with 60” MMM and loaders...same dealer sells both so one can’t blame location. )

Being a CK20 owner I have to agree that comparing a CK20 with MMM to a Kubota 7510 turf package with MMM is not kind to the Kioti. The Kubota is cheaper mostly because of the great package deal with the suspended MMM while the Kioti is straddled with a very expensive ($2700list I think) MMM. I needed a rough cut mower anyway so that was not critical for me. For a true mowing machine I'd go with the 7510 turf every time.

djg · Dec 19, 2005

One thing I see in Kubota's favor is the wonderful Tractorsmart.com parts website. Ronnie Bowman has been very helpful with info on my old Kubota, and I have spent maybe $100.00 there. Is there any such support for Kioti?

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

( ( I personally came within a day of buying a Kubota 7510 until I rechecked prices with my local Kioti dealer and stumbled onto a slighted used CK20 that was too good a deal to pass up. )

These are the types of quotes that continue the fuel because without actual dollar numbers mentioned, it is impossible to judge a good deal. )

I didn't include details in the earlier post but am happy to share:

2005 CK20HST with KL120 FEL 28hrs on meter: $10,000
(traded in by orginal buyer for CK30 a month after purchase)
Added KB2365 backhoe $4800
Added 48" Squealer Bush Hog mower $825
Deal included 50hr service, 3 hooks welded to bucket and loading rear tires with "beet juice". Charged me additional $250 to deliver 80 miles away.

As a comparison, I was very close to buying a Kubota 7510 Turf Special from a popular internet savvy dealer. The cost for the tractor/fel/mmm/hooks was $13,600 plus $350 delivery.

The deals are not identical (even ignoring the BH) as the 7510 had the MMM while I got a brush mower with the Kioti. However, the difference in price for those items was substantial: $13,600 for the 7510 package and $10,825 for the CK20 package (minus BH). Difference in price is what allowed me to stretch and get the BH at the same time.

As I was perfectly happy with getting the 7510 turf, it really was the package price that made the deal for Kioti. Arguably, the Kioti is a bit better for the initial land clearing work while the Kubota would be better once I am finished and just mowing. For now, I am glad I got the CK20 it as the backhoe has been remarkably helpful in my land clearing project.

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

Nothing like the Tractorsmart.com parts website for the Kioti. Advantage Kubota. Maybe in the future however as Kioti seems to be pretty agressive about modernizing their infrastructure.

Donnyj · Dec 19, 2005

If you do decide to buy a Kioti, I wish you the best of luck and hope the tractor gives you years of good service. I do not agree about the statement that you dislike Kioti that other members have labled you with. After all, why would a person go and test out a new tractor if he was not somewhat interested. I really believe you took my post the wrong way. I was not trying to start any arguement with you. I simply was curious about what your findings were when you compared the two tractors. I do not shove the Kioti brand down anybody's throat. I hope you understand that I was just trying to find out some info. Nothing more. Also like you I will tell the whole truth about any tractor I own. Just look at my past history of posts and you will find I have had small issues with my tractor. Nothing major. Issues none the less though. I just find it almost impossible anymore to post outside the Kioti forum for help and advice. There are some really great and helpful members in the Kioti forum and some trouble makers as well. I believe that is true for the whole site anymore. Discussions and debates are just one of the many enjoyable things on this site. Great advice and tons of help from other members makes this site even more enjoyable. I wish you the best.

ck30newjersey · Dec 19, 2005

They are not the same tractor, much different.

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

( They are not the same tractor, much different. )

Well, they are the same horsepower and size. The Kioti is significanly heavier and has greater FEL capacities but otherwise they are fairly comparable. Certainly nothing else in the Kubota line compares as closely as the 7510 to the CK20 unless you just focus on weight.

ck30newjersey · Dec 19, 2005

Many more features on the Kioti ck20. More stock standards also.

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

You're right, I did leave out position control which is a nice feature on the CK20 but I cannot think of what other important features differentiate the two. As I stated earlier, they are pretty clearly the competing models at their performance/price levels between the two tractor lines.

And I'd be happy to have either in my barn /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

daTeacha · Dec 19, 2005

After reading through all this, I'm just happy the nearest Kioti dealer is 33 miles away. If he was half the distance, it would just add to my confusion about what to look for. As it is, I have 3 Kubota stores, 2 JD, 2 Case, 1 NH, 1 Massey (sort of), 3 Agco's, and Mahindra.

It sure would be nice if a guy could pick his favorite parts off each one, throw them in the garage overnight, and come back in the morning to find a multicolored tractor set up with the best features of each of them combined into one.

IH3444 · Dec 19, 2005

Agreed, but basicly all I would need is the Kioti DK45S tractor, with the NH 18LA loader. Gota love those Kioti low creeper gears, and built like an M1A2 Kioti features, not to mention that rear 3 point hitch adjustment lever on the Kioti. I don't know why, but I just don't get all excited about Kubotas, and I have several patents in mechanically designed devices. I would transplant the NH Hydraulic pumps to the Kioti, as well as the fender mounted loader control lever. I wish the NH TC48DA had some lower gears, I would be happy to trade the top two gears in high range, for a .45mph, and a .72mph lower gear in the NH low range. NH should offer a 16/16 trans in the TC48/55 utility tractor. Massey does it, Sweet! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

kevincook · Dec 19, 2005

When I saw this topic first show up my first thought was oh no....here we go again. I decided to stay out /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Maybe it would be best if we all just dropped this here and moved on to some other topics.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Kevin

RedDog · Dec 19, 2005

Agreed, but basicly all I would need is the Kioti DK45S tractor, with the NH 18LA loader. 
That would be a pretty nice tractor!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 Gota love those Kioti low creeper gears, and built like an M1A2 Kioti features, not to mention that rear 3 point hitch adjustment lever on the Kioti. 
Yep, those low gears are nice. I think all brands of tractors should have that lever. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 I don't know why, but I just don't get all excited about Kubotas 
Me too.

 I would transplant the NH Hydraulic pumps to the Kioti, as well as the fender mounted loader control lever. 
I mentioned that quite a while ago and totally agree. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

NH should offer a 16/16 trans in the TC48/55 utility tractor. 
Kioti should offer it in the DK series tractors. Especially since they are going to be bringing the bigger DK's over. I think they need at least the option of a 16/16 tranny. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

RedDog

daTeacha · Dec 19, 2005

Hey Red Dog -- For your dealer, do you go to Columbus, stay in Lancaster, or travel down to Nelsonville? I looked at a Kioti down in Nelsonville, or thereabouts this summer, thinking it was a Kubota store. Are they expanding northward in Ohio? I don't have a dealer nearby, unless you count the one in Dover, about 33 miles away.

RedDog · Dec 19, 2005

Nelsonville. I wish he was in Lancaster. I'm guessing he is about 30 miles from me.

I do not know anything about expanding northward in Ohio. I know one opened in London Ohio this past Summer. I have never been to another Kioti dealer. I kinda like my "hillbilly" dealer. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

RedDog

IH3444 · Dec 20, 2005

NH offers a 16/16 trans, but it's in European TCE. Bummer!

TCE55 joins NH family

By Jim Breen

New Holland's TCE tractors are designed to offer operators plenty of power in a compact, straightforward package. The range is comprised of four models from the 38hp TCE40 to the new 54hp TCE55, with the emphasis on affordability.

"The newly-expanded TCE range is ideal for amenity applications, golf courses and turf work, as well as polytunnel operations and specialist farming.

"Users have been delighted with the no-nonsense approach of the TCE. It is simple to use and has low operating costs,'' said Kevin Carley, New Holland's product specialist.

The Tier II emissionised engines are said to be "clean and quiet''.

The frugal three-cylinder TCE40 develops 103Nm torque at 1800rpm while the top-of-the-range TCE55 achieves a maximum of 160Nm at just 1,600rpm from its two-litre four-cylinder turbocharged engine.

According to New Holland, the balance of low-end torque and top-end power means the TCE is equally at home engaged in light ploughing or towing. The transmission is a simple 16F 16R box with a creeper. Four ratios in each of the four working ranges enable operations to be carried out from as slow as 250m/hr or up to 30kph.

A choice of agricultural and turf tyres is available to suit various requirements, be it high levels of grip or low ground pressure. A 55-degree steering angle affords good manoeuvrability - allowing short headlands to be easily accommodated, whether out in the field or in the confines of a yard or fruit farm.

A separate dedicated pump for power steering means a genuine 28 litres-per-minute is available for hydraulic applications front and rear.

The 1,200kg rear hydraulic lift capacity and three-speed PTO (540, 540E and ground speed) allows a wide variety of implements to be operated. A 400kg front linkage capacity and optional 1,000rpm front PTO further extends the versatility of the TCE. The cabless version of the TCE uses a suspended platform mounted on 'silent blocks' to isolate the driver from noise and vibration.

Owners of the four-cylinder TCE45, 50 and 55 can enjoy cool summers and warm winters by adding a cab with optional air-conditioning. Large glass doors and windows provide good visibility, with the windows opening to provide full ventilation.