Kioti vs Kubota

Dargo · Dec 18, 2005

( When you spend your money, you have to do what you think best.)

Seriously; I do honestly believe that, my opinions completely aside.

DK35vince · Dec 18, 2005

I betting the information on Kioti on the website you provided is far more dated than 5 years ago.
If you click on Kioti on the web page provided, it takes you to the Lely Corp. website.
Lely hasn't been the distributor for Kioti tractors since prior to 1993.

daTeacha · Dec 18, 2005

"....Take a Kia and a Lexus and do a head to head comparison. Most of your Kia owners see no difference other than additional bells and whistles. I feel a difference in many areas....''

I believe the Kia comes with a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty, while that of the Lexus is somewhat less.

The question is how each person chooses to define quality. For some it is fine craftsmanship and painstaking attention to details of fit, finish, movement of controls, etc. For others it is the simplicity and durability of an anvil. The Korean manufacturers are making incredible strides on all fronts. They have progressed much faster than the Japanese did when they first started getting into the wheeled vehicle for export business.

I'm not taking sides here, but you can't sell the Korean machines short. They are designed to a working purpose first. Other concerns are secondary. Kubota has dominated the CUT market long enough to be able to afford to fine tune and expand their model lineup to meet the wants of a wide variety of customers, from the luxury oriented gentleman farmer to the hardworking stiff to whom the tractor is a tool of his trade and not just a plaything for his expensive hobby farm and from the glorified lawnmower SCUTs to seriously big Ag or construction hardware, covering just about every thin slice of the size spectrum in between.

At this point, the Koreans are still building their reputation with the working tractor segment of the market and have not yet chosen to challenge the Toyota of the tractor world in the Lexus end of the marketplace. When they do, watch out.

Dargo · Dec 18, 2005

( I believe the Kia comes with a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty, while that of the Lexus is somewhat less. )

Okay, you'd buy a Kia and be happy, and I'll stick with the Lexus. People have their own opinion, and I just don't think the Kioti products are close to competing head to head with Kubota, John Deere, or CNH. Maybe in the future, but not at this point. As I said before, each person gets to decide how to spend their own money. Again, I know that this is the only Kioti dominated site on the internet, but I still have to state that after close evaluation, they don't yet compare head to head with the big three offerings.

Donnyj · Dec 18, 2005

Well I certainly appreciate your opinions and I can understand your conclusions. On my test drive I even tried out the nicer Grand L series and found them awesome to say the least. The tractor definitely had more bells and whistles. I just did not see the quality advantage though. Very good quality machine, just did not think it was far superior. I'm a little confused though about your link. The document I believe was from 1996 or 1997? I believe it also put the Kioti in the 16 to 24 hp. I fail to see the importance of an out of date document. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Anyway, I hope the next time you decide to tractor shop Kioti has made enough improvements to change your mind. I personally find it exciting that all the tractor manufactures are making some great products now. I personally feel that the competition benefits us. I'm looking forward to more great products in the future.

Dargo · Dec 18, 2005

( I'm a little confused though about your link. The document I believe was from 1996 or 1997? I believe it also put the Kioti in the 16 to 24 hp. I fail to see the importance of an out of date document. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Anyway, I hope the next time you decide to tractor shop Kioti has made enough improvements to change your mind.)

I re-read my post and I clearly noted that it was an old article and that quality has improved. What is your point?! Hopefully you are not disappointed that I stated that Kioti has been improving and I would not consider it on the "service challenged" list. Did I not say that I'd look at them again in the future and see if they continue to improve?! You asked for my reasons; I gave them. Sorry that you have a different perception of quality than I do. Yet again, each guy sure has the right to spend their money as they deem fit. I see Kioti as improving, but not yet prime time.

thcri · Dec 18, 2005

The thing that bothers me most about Kioti is the fact they have not been around for very long in the states. I am sure they are a good tractor, can't really say much because there is not a dealer within 120 miles of my place according to the web page dealer locator. The other thing I have heard of getting parts takes a while if your dealer doesn't have it in stock. Now maybe they have made improvements in that area also. But me and just me, I always worry about newcomers. When I purchased a tractor it was all about dealer. The other thing I have seen in different industries is when a newcomer comes around and the bigger manufactures see this they tend to go and steer that dealer to their product. In other words a good strong Kioti dealer may be approached by John Deere, Kubota or New Holland and ask him to take on their line. Well if you have your choice, Kioti dealership or John Deere dealership, the Kioti guy may just jump. The big three are all about numbers and market share. I see this in the industry I am in all the time.

Again when I bought the money issue was not a big deal, I would have paid a grand more as long as I was comfortable with the dealer.

Just my opinion.

murph

Donnyj · Dec 18, 2005

I apologize if you thought I was being disrespectful to you /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I was simply stating a fact. The document was older than the 5 years YOU stated. I feel no need what so ever to use a negative tone with me. I thought I left the discussion on a positive note with you. I guess I was wrong. I respect your opinion like I said before. If you wish to continue the discussion in a normal, rational manner, then great. If not, then good day to you.

wvmapler · Dec 18, 2005

The biggest negative I see about a Kioti is exactly what Murph pointed out is that they haven't been around that long. We now how Kubotas service as they have been around 30+ years and they have stood up to the abuse. I would venture to say they service probably about as good as any other tractor. In another 15 to 20 years, we will know more about Kioti. They appear to be a great tractor, but will they stay solvent or end up like Belarus or other manufactures. Probably not, but that was a HUGE factor for me was a company that was going to be there to back their products. 1,000,000+ tractors in the US in 30 years is a pretty good accomplishment and I have yet to find someone to really say anything legitimatly bad about a Kubota. I could say the same about Kioti too, but they haven't been around that long and their dealer network is low, at least in this area. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RedDog · Dec 18, 2005

( PTO HP
DK65S 52.1 hp
M6800 62 hp

Engine Gross
DK65S 64 hp
M6800 70.9 hp

Rated RPM
DK65S 2200
M6800 2600

Displacement
DK65S 201.4 (turbocharged)
M6800 202

Clutch
DK65S Dry single plate
M6800 Hydraulic Shuttle/Multiple Wet Disc

Transmission
DK65S 12F/12R (main gear synchronized)
M6800 8F/8R Fully synchronized

Diff Lock
DK65S Front & Rear
M6800 Front & Rear

Final Drive
DK65S Didn't find info
M6800 Inboard Planetary

Brake
DK65S Hydraulic wet disc
M6800 Mechanically operated, multi plate wet disc

PTO Type
DK65S Rear independent (540 rpm & 1000 rpm)
M6800 Live-hydraulic independent

Hydraulic Type
DK65S Didn't find info
M6800 Open

Hydraulic Pump
DK65S Didn't find info, but I believe it is a gear driven pump
M6800 Gear pumps

Total Pump Output
DK65S 19.17 gpm (10.88 main pump; 8.37 steering pump)
M6800 17.1 gpm (11.0 main pump; 6.1 steering pump)

Hydraulic Outlets
DK65S Two (3rd optional)
M6800 One (2nd & 3rd optional)

3-point Hitch
DK65S Cat II (Cat I optional)
M6800 Cat I & II (looks to be the same as the Kioti)

Hydraulic Controls
DK65S Position, Draft, Mix control
M6800 Position, Draft, Mix control

Lift Capacity at Lift Point
DK65S Didn't find info
M6800 4550 lbs

24" Behind LP
DK65S Didn't find info (at least not specifically stated as)
M6800 3310 lbs

24" Aft of Hitch
DK65S 4850 lbs (not exactly sure where this measurement takes place - may or may not be the same as 24" behind LP)
M6800 Didn't find this info

Steering
DK65S Hydraulic
M6800 Hydrostatic

Fuel Tank
DK65S 26.5 gal.
M6800 25.1 gal

Cooling System
DK65S Didn't find info
M6800 9 qts

Engine Oil
DK65S Didn't find info
M6800 11.3 qts

Weight with Cab (MFWD)
DK65S 6925 lbs (cab model with standard ag tires)
M6800 6175 lbs (cab model with standard ag tires)

Ground Clearance (Front Axle)
DK65S 16.7 in
M6800 18.1 in

Raw specs can give you an idea of a tractor's performance, but it doesn't tell you how a tractor fits you. You really need to see both beasts up close and personal. Without kicking the tires, grabbing a hold of a steering wheel, and messing with a vehicle's controls you really can't get a feel for the machine.

If a person chooses a Kioti over a Kubota or vice versa and is happy with the tractor, why worry about buyer's remorse? Be happy you now have a YOUR tractor (or get to drive the bank's tractor for a few years before it really becomes YOURs)!

I admit, I have my preference based on my experiences and my needs. Those two things are not the same for everyone and so everyone doesn't need to buy the same exact make and model tractor as mine.

If you are happy with your 2002 DK65S and it has done everything you've asked of it, then why worry about a M6800? It is a moot point. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Don't worry, be happy!

)

PTO HP
DK65 54HP
M6800 62HP

Engine Gross
DK65 64.5HP
M6800 No Info

Rated RPM
DK65 2250
M6800 2600

Displacement
DK65 2700cc
M6800 3318cc

Clutch
DK65 Dry type single plate-single stage
M6800 Multiple wet disc (common with shuttle clutch)

Transmission
DK65 12F/12R Synchronized shuttle and transmission
M6800 8F/8R Synchronized

Diff Lock
DK65 Front/Rear
M6800 Front/Rear

Final Drive
I didn't find it on either.

Brake
DK65 Wet disc
M6800 Mechanical wet disc

PTO type
DK65 Independent 540/1000
M6800 Live Independent 540 (1000 optional)

Total Pump Output
DK65 17.6gpm Steering 7.6gpm
M6800 11gpm main pump, Don't know steering

Hydraulic outlets
DK65 2 (opt 3)
M6800 1 (opt 2 on ROPS model)

3 point hitch
DK65 Cat 1and2
M6800 Cat1and2

Lift capacity
DK65 4991lbs 24" behind lower link end
M6800 3310lbs 24" behind lift point

Steering
DK65 Hydraulic
M6800 Hydrostatic

Fuel Tank
DK65 26.4 Gallons (ROPS and CAB)
M6800 17.2 Gallons (ROPS model only)

Weight
DK65 6338lbs (ROPS)
M6800 5185lbs (ROPS) w/Cast iron disks for rear wheels.

Min. Ground Clearance
DK65 16.7"
M6800 18.1 (Front axle only)

Deck Type
DK65 Full Flat
M6800 Semi Flat

Front End Loader
DK65 KL1730
M6800 LA1162

Lift Capacity of Loader
KL1730 3500lbs Full height @ pivot pins
LA1162 2890lbs Full height @pivot pins

Bucket size
KL1730 84"
LA1162 72"

My tractor is not the S-model. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I wish it was, they look better!!

Some of my numbers are the same as yours and some are not.

RedDog

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

( The thing that bothers me most about Kioti is the fact they have not been around for very long in the states. )

Correct. Same statement is true of Kubota in 1990, Toyota in 1975 etc etc. Kioti is not a new company but they have not been importing to the USA that long. Nonetheless, they have built infrastructure over the past decade and are moving on a trajectory that is steadily upwards. Pretty much exactly the situation Kubota was in a couple of decades ago.

Some people may not want to risk the equivalent of buying a Toyota in 1975 so will avoid such purchases (and buy GM /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif). Others look at the basic product, company history, local dealer, and make different decisions. Anyone doing their due diligence in purchasing a tractor understands that JD, NH and Kubota are the best established brands just like Ford, GM and Chrysler were in the auto industry 30 years ago. No one is hiding the fact that Kiotis are built in Korea. If you don't like foreign tractors then buy a.....PowerTrac (which has a very reliable foreign powerplant)!! If you need a dealer next door that should come into your decision making. To each his own...

One last point, there are a very few individuals on this board who get a twist in their panties every time someone else advocates for a Kioti. That ususally starts one of these pissing contests that really do no one any good. Yeah the Kioti crowd are enthusiastic, so what? They do not (as Dargo implies) form the majority of users on TBN (Kubota posts out number Kioti posts by six to one, "Big Three" posts to TBN out numer Kioti posts by twelve to one). Kioti users, like Power Trac users, may indeed use this board proportionately more than other brand users. Fine, that's who make up the TBN community. People who run to the dealer for every question and oil change may well be underrepresented here and those folks are likely to be disproportionately JD and Kubota customers who like turn key operations. This board seems populated with do-it-yourselfers and folks willing to step outside the protective bubble of the big 3.

There is nothing overwhelmingly either in favor of or against a Kioti tractor compared to equivalent Big Three models. I doubt anyone buys a Kioti without carefully considering the advantages of a Big 3 alternative. I personally came within a day of buying a Kubota 7510 until I rechecked prices with my local Kioti dealer and stumbled onto a slighted used CK20 that was too good a deal to pass up. If you think all Kioti owners are fools then avoid their advice but I for one did not think the Kioti crowd was naive or unsophisticated about their choices. Indeed, I dare say that the naive and gullible first time buyers (not TBN users /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) just walk into a JD or Kubota dealership and buy whatever the salesman talks them into. Choosing to buy a Kioti really is like deciding whether to buy a Toyota Corolla in 1975 (or God forbid a Renault, Chevy Nova, or Ford Pinto /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif). As the man says, you pays your money and takes your chances.

Instead of ragging on the Kioti, disgruntled Big Three advocates should try their fire and brimstone preaching on the Chinese tractor section and try to set those folks right. However, I'd put money on the proposition that one of those Chinese companies (if I knew which I'd buy stock /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) is going to dominate the whole CUT market in the next twenty five years. I wonder if the Big 3 will still be marketing Japanese built CUTs at that point.

daTeacha · Dec 19, 2005

Hey Islandtractor! My BIL's mother lives on Prudence. Do you know the Aldrich's? Small world.

I have to agree with you about the Chinese. I hate to say it, but the simple fact that that nation has so many people willing to work so hard for so little compared to the more developed areas of the world means that a lot of manufacturing will be moving to China. It's just a matter of economic survival. You design a good product, then get it put together where your costs are lowest so you can sell it cheaper and still make a big profit.

Look at athletic shoes, electronics, etc. For that matter, as China develops a more robust and consumer oriented internal economy, we are going to see the basic design of a lot of consumer goods oriented (sorry for the pun) toward the tastes of that huge market. For now, we have the luxury of arguing about the merits of Japanese vs. Korean vs. "American" and the various details each offers that the other doesn't. When China comes on line in a big way, other companies will seem to offer products that a person may percieve as better in some way, but at a very large price premium. As we speak, the major auto makers are vying for a slice of the Chinese labor and consumer market. All other industries, including tractors, will soon follow suit.

So, to all posters, enjoy your choices and spend your money on the features that are important to you. But look for the machinery made in the cheap labor countries to become a larger and larger part of the product mix. After China, watch North Korea.

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

( Hey Islandtractor! My BIL's mother lives on Prudence. Do you know the Aldrich's? Small world. )

Well, I do know of the Aldrich's but I don't think I have met them. I've had a summer place there for 4 years. Only about 100 families on the island though so I am sure I've been on the ferry with them. Come on down...(better wait til Spring though, pretty cold and miserable right now).

Ed

Dargo · Dec 19, 2005

Would it make things look better (or worse?) that I have looked at a few used Kioti tractors recently? I have a fairly large parcel of land that is not attached to the property where I live, and I'd like to have a tractor up there to use instead of trailering one of my tractors each time. Not the "old" tractors by Kioti that were considered to be a service problem, but a relatively late model. I'm concerned about buying a tractor on eBay, but there does seem to be some really good bargains to be had there on nice looking used Kioti tractors. With the prices I've seen, a low hour used Kioti tractor may be the best deal out there.

Author's note: this post is not a "suck up" post. If you've read my posts in the past, doing so would certainly not be my style. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Also, many will know that I am not hesitant to express my displeasure with any brand of tractor I own if it does not perform as I expect. This post is to demonstrate that although I think Kioti is not on an the same level of the "big 3" tractors I've bought, I'd have to say that it appears to be my next choice. Some tractors would not hold my interest regardless of the price; I woudln't take some even if they were free. However, the prices on a couple year old Kioti tractors is beginning to catch my interest.

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

Dargo,

I hope things work out. I took advantage of just such a deal and have not regretted it for a moment.

You will have to endure a bit of "I told you so" from the Kioti faithful but I'm sure they are a forgiving lot and will be delighted to have you aboard.

ck30newjersey · Dec 19, 2005

Everyone has there own thoughts

IslandTractor · Dec 19, 2005

Hey, if he's coming around let's give him a break. Who knows, he may soon be singing praises.

kcook · Dec 19, 2005

( I'm considering my first tractor purchase. I'm looking at the Kioti CK30 and the Kubota L3400. Both are 4wd, hst, with loader, R4 tires, box blade and shredder. Dealers are about the same distance. Kubota has more power and name recognition. Kioti is heavier and dealer more responsive. Any guidance?? )

Either will do the job you need, second dealer support is important weather you need parts or service. Check them out!

KC

ck30newjersey · Dec 19, 2005

( This post is to demonstrate that although I think Kioti is not on an the same level of the "big 3" tractors I've bought, )

I think Kioti's are at a higher level. At least when I purchased mine. I was really impressed with the Mahindra. Kubota's didn't really do much for me other then the little BX. Really liked that tractor.

gmsssi · Dec 19, 2005

( Dargo dislikes Kioti's no matter how you slice it. )

I disagree! Dargo confided in me when he was looking for a larger tractor. He's very open to a Kioti, he just hasn't found the right one that compares to the features that are important to him. Respect a man for his opinion and leave the barbs at home. We've lost enough members because of Kioti obsession.