Kioti Operator's Manual Mystery

[dennis52]

Getting back to manuals, I must say I am pretty impressed with the Owners and electronic Workshop manuals for the 2010 DS4510.

The coloured photographs with magnified close up "balloons" are just wonderful.

Sure there is the odd bit of broken English but I kind of like it.

 

[sawyernick]

I have an early 80's Kubota B7100 and the English in the owners manual is also bad, so there's hope for Kioti.:thumbsup:

Nick

 

[kco]

This topic got side-tracked when tomslawn made not so diplomatic comments about Kiotis.

But I will take his advice and check my loader bolts regularly. In fact page 10-3 of the KL 401/351 loader manual says to RE-TORQUE the bolts every 25 hours.

I don't buy the soft-steel theory but think the bolts may be prone to loosening due to the loader mount design. If regular maintenance is not performed bolts can loosen resulting in wear on the threads.

This problem can partially be blamed on sub-par Kioti manuals. The note about re-torquing every 25 hours is ONLY contained in the loader manual. How many people completely read, and remember, that? On the other hand, the Owner's Manual, Maintenance Check List, Daily Check Chart on page 7-3 says for "Loader (If Equipped) - Check mounting hardware for loose or broken parts." That's a lot different that calling for re-torquing.

The Owner's Manual Maintenance section includes an item (and values) for re-torquing wheel bolts every 50 hours. They should include and item for re-torquing loader bolts.

The KL 401/351 loader manual is confusing and, unless you own a DK35 with a KL 351, has NO actual torque values. For the KL 351 it does list values for the 8 14mm x 85mm hex head cap screws (part no. 01173-51485 on page 14-15). True to form, the manual lists the ISO class as 10.7 instead of the correct 10.9.

The rest of the bolts on the KL 351 are Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) 9T bolts as are ALL bolts on the KL 401 (ignoring the small M10 7T bolts holding the loader pins). The loader manual does not provide those torques but my dealer emailed me a chart that I assume is from the Workshop Manual.

I had asked a couple of other bolt questions which the dealer sent to Kioti Tech Support. He got a return email with the comment "The information he has is exactly what we have. My recommendation would be to go to a FASTENAL or good bolt supplier and get a generic torgue chart. The DD or DS is the manufacture signature." and a snapshot from Geno's Garage giving torques for M14 10.9 bolts which are different than those in the KL 351 Owner's manual :confused2the Geno's Garage specifies 133 lb-ft while the Kioti manual specifies 164 lb-ft). The 133 lb-ft value coincides with the 9T chart the dealer sent me. So I think the Kioti loader manual has the incorrect value (for the incorrect 10.7 bolt).

Several bolts moved slightly as I re-torqued them during the 50 hour service, and one moved about 1/4 turn. So I intend to check my loader bolts regularly as tomslawn suggests and as specified in the loader manual.

Kioti manual shortcomings can be entertaining. But some of this information is important. I think Kioti USA should take a more pro-active role and provide updated "errata" pages for manuals and/or put a "Support" section on their webpage where owners could download updated information.

By the way, the reason tomslawn's advice caught my eye is because my dealer had a DK90 in the shop with stripped loader bolts the day I bought my tractor. But I don't think it was a soft steel problem. The owner had noticed loose mounting bolts and fixed it with his 3/4" impact wrench! However, the fact that he noticed the loose bolts (must have been very loose) says something.

 

[VictorW]

I had noticed a few loader mount bolts coming lose on mine when I did my first check. I used lock tight on all of them and haven't had a problem since.

Beside the English translations, I had incorrect printed rear wheel torque values at 295 ft.lbs. in my owners manual. I converted the printed nm torque and found the correct torque for ft.lbs. The workshop manual for my tractor has the correct values though. They're not to good at converting numbers for the owners manual which should be updated because not everyone buys the workshop manual.

 

[kco]

I had noticed a few loader mount bolts coming lose on mine when I did my first check. I used lock tight on all of them and haven't had a problem since.

Beside the English translations, I had incorrect printed rear wheel torque values at 295 ft.lbs. in my owners manual. I converted the printed nm torque and found the correct torque for ft.lbs. The workshop manual for my tractor has the correct values though. They're not to good at converting numbers for the owners manual which should be updated because not everyone buys the workshop manual.

When I spoke with my dealer today he told me they started using Loctite on the loader bolts a couple of weeks ago. He said to use the blue Loctite (medium strength) as you can remove the bolts without heat or hammering. I think it is the Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 product.

I will likely use it on my bolts but for now will continue to check the torques often.

I did not ask the dealer why they started using Loctite but they must have noticed bolts loosening.

 

[dennis52]

If we are talking about the loader pin mounting bolts ( rather than the loader frame to tractor bolts) then the ones on myDS4510 get slightly loose about every 20 hrs.

I just include them in the overall bolt tightening maintainence schedule: wheels, loader, loader frame, slasher.

My toque wrench is only calibrated to 100ft lb so I use a leverage bar on the larger bolts.

 

[kco]

If we are talking about the loader pin mounting bolts ( rather than the loader frame to tractor bolts) then the ones on myDS4510 get slightly loose about every 20 hrs.

I just include them in the overall bolt tightening maintainence schedule: wheels, loader, loader frame, slasher.

My toque wrench is only calibrated to 100ft lb so I use a leverage bar on the larger bolts.

Hi Dennis. I'm referring to the loader frame to tractor bolts. i.e. the M14, and M12 bolts on the KL401 and KL351 loaders.

 

[dennis52]

Thanks KCO,
the Kiotis over here come with an Ansung (Korean) loader and bucket.
You are right, I remember it took me quite a while to figure out that bolt/ torque chart.

When the dealer did my on farm 50 hr service I watched him use a leverage bar (the 1 ft bar swivels on the 1/2 inch socket drive) to tighten the loader frame bolts .
I didn't want to pay $100 for another torque wrench so I bought the same size bar he used (for $20) and tighten them regularly, with my full strength.

One or two I get just a little loose.

However the dealer did advise me to keep a close eye on the loader pin mounting bolts as they regularly get loose. He was right.

Now the dealer only used his full force on a regular 17mm ring spanner on these bolts (no additional leverage) so that's what I am doing.

Forgot you are Canadian and I don't have to translate from metric; I'm old enough that I can work in both measurements but still think in feet, pounds and gallons.

 

[duanekeys]

It think I'll spend some time one of these evenings and come up with a better way to indicate what maintenance needs to be done when (some sort of spreadsheet with all the info needed to perform the maintenance intervals). As it is, it's very hard to keep track of as everyone has indicated.

 

[grsthegreat]

One or two I get just a little loose.

However the dealer did advise me to keep a close eye on the loader pin mounting bolts as they regularly get loose. He was right.

Now the dealer only used his full force on a regular 17mm ring spanner on these bolts (no additional leverage) so that's what I am doing.

.

Perhaps you could help me out...where exactly are the loader pin bolts you are referring to. Ive looked at the schematics on the 401 loader, but do not see them?