Kioti hard starting
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Welcome to TBN. 
Briana03
Elite Member
Hello & WELCOME to TractorByNet.com!
I have moved your thread to the Kioti Owning/Operating Forum. You'll get a better response there.
I have moved your thread to the Kioti Owning/Operating Forum. You'll get a better response there.
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
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- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
Hi and welcome to the TBN site!:thumbsup:
If you state the symptoms and further description of exactly when this problem occurs, it makes it easier for us to help you.
I own a DK-40 and have had some starting issues with it. I keep it in a heated garage- radiant floor heat, so it's almost always around 50 degrees except now when the heat is off.
I found that if it doesn't start after glowing it the first time I do it again and it almost always starts.
If it's been started and I try to re-start, without it being run 'till it's warmed up completely I will turn the key toward, but not fully to crank, and this will bring on the glow coil light. I do a count of 15-30 seconds and then turn the key all the way to crank and she almost always starts.
Try this, and if it doesn't fix the issue post back with more details.
Enjoy your new work-horse: TOY!
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
i guess i dont know what you mean by hard starting
Highbeam
Super Member
The CK30 has been extremely easy starter in all temps. I always allow the glow plug light to cycle. Just a quick bump of the start and she light off. Much quicker to start than even my diesel Ford truck.
When you say it is hard starting, do you mean you turn the key over and it sits there and cranks for a while vs. starting at the turn of the key?
This happened to me 2 weeks ago. I cranked on it 2-3 different times until it finally started. I was worried but it hasn't happened again. It has been in the garage and nothing out of norm when this happened. Not sure what happened???
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks!
This happened to me 2 weeks ago. I cranked on it 2-3 different times until it finally started. I was worried but it hasn't happened again. It has been in the garage and nothing out of norm when this happened. Not sure what happened???
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks!
mrutkaus
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2004
- Messages
- 991
- Location
- 15 mi. N. of Winchester VA
- Tractor
- Kioti CK30HST, Kubota BX-1500,
On a CK30 once I had hard starting, Power Products brand Diesel additive in the White plastic jug cured it. I think it is available at WalMart.
Mike
Mike
tnewbern
Bronze Member
The symptom (if you have the same problem as me) is no starting not hard starting. The engine just turns and never fires. There is a know issue with some of the relays on this tractor. I belive the culprit is the fuel relay as the problem (for me) is not temperature dependant.
The quick fix is to listen for the relay contact when you turn the ignition on. If you don't hear a solid contact turn it off and back on again. If the tractor sits a while I sometimes need to do this 2 or 3 times. Once you get solid contact let the glow plug timeout then start.
The real fix is to replace the relay its under the hood on the firewall infront of the fuel tank. I am not sure which one exactly as I have been to busy (lazy) as the on-off-on method above is working.
The quick fix is to listen for the relay contact when you turn the ignition on. If you don't hear a solid contact turn it off and back on again. If the tractor sits a while I sometimes need to do this 2 or 3 times. Once you get solid contact let the glow plug timeout then start.
The real fix is to replace the relay its under the hood on the firewall infront of the fuel tank. I am not sure which one exactly as I have been to busy (lazy) as the on-off-on method above is working.
tnewbern
Bronze Member
Ok you inspired me. It appears to be the "Engine Stop Solenoid".
In the engine compartment on the firewall you will find a group of 3 relays. These are as follows left (outter most) start relay, middle preheat relay and right (inner) engine stop relay. Next to this you will see the display control unit.
On the right hand side (referenced from the seat) of the motor you will see a silver cylinder on the end of the injector pump. That is your engine stop solenoid (fuel cutoff). This solenoid opens the fuel to the engine. It fails safe in a closed position to prevent runaway. Until this solenoid opens the engine will not run.
When you turn the ignition to the "ON" position you should hear a loud click coming from the solenoid. If my machine sits for a day or so I get no sound on the first turn. This results in the engine turning but not running (no fuel). The next operation a soft click. Do this again and I get get the solid snap that should happen all the time. You can see how this might appear to be glow plug related if you find no start then cycle again.
I shall seek replacement of the engine stop solenoid on my next visit to the dealer. I don't know the cost but for warrenty replacement I am told it needs to go to the dealer. I will most likely just buy one to avoid the transport to the dealer. Until then my initial start procedure is as follows. Turn the ignition on-off-on a couple of times until I hear the snap. Once I hear that I let the glow plug cycle then start. Works every time (so far).
In the engine compartment on the firewall you will find a group of 3 relays. These are as follows left (outter most) start relay, middle preheat relay and right (inner) engine stop relay. Next to this you will see the display control unit.
On the right hand side (referenced from the seat) of the motor you will see a silver cylinder on the end of the injector pump. That is your engine stop solenoid (fuel cutoff). This solenoid opens the fuel to the engine. It fails safe in a closed position to prevent runaway. Until this solenoid opens the engine will not run.
When you turn the ignition to the "ON" position you should hear a loud click coming from the solenoid. If my machine sits for a day or so I get no sound on the first turn. This results in the engine turning but not running (no fuel). The next operation a soft click. Do this again and I get get the solid snap that should happen all the time. You can see how this might appear to be glow plug related if you find no start then cycle again.
I shall seek replacement of the engine stop solenoid on my next visit to the dealer. I don't know the cost but for warrenty replacement I am told it needs to go to the dealer. I will most likely just buy one to avoid the transport to the dealer. Until then my initial start procedure is as follows. Turn the ignition on-off-on a couple of times until I hear the snap. Once I hear that I let the glow plug cycle then start. Works every time (so far).
kco
Veteran Member
What a timely thread!
This happened to me several days ago and again yesterday. The weather was warm both times and the engine turned over well, so I thought it must be something to do with no fuel. Since it did not happen regularly and corrected itself both times I was concerned it would be difficult to troubleshoot.
While trying to recreate the problem when I finished yesterday and the tractor started perfectly each time, I dimly recalled that perhaps I did not hear that familiar click when I had the trouble in the morning--but I wasn't sure.
I'll keep and eye on it and mention it to my dealer.
Thanks for the information gkh7890 and tnewbern:thumbsup:--the symptoms you describe are exactly what I'm seeing.
This happened to me several days ago and again yesterday. The weather was warm both times and the engine turned over well, so I thought it must be something to do with no fuel. Since it did not happen regularly and corrected itself both times I was concerned it would be difficult to troubleshoot.
While trying to recreate the problem when I finished yesterday and the tractor started perfectly each time, I dimly recalled that perhaps I did not hear that familiar click when I had the trouble in the morning--but I wasn't sure.
I'll keep and eye on it and mention it to my dealer.
Thanks for the information gkh7890 and tnewbern:thumbsup:--the symptoms you describe are exactly what I'm seeing.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Ive had the same problem....just continues to turn over. its hard for me to hear the click due to the cab. My dealer told me that it is probibly the relay. Ill check with him again and see if **** ship me the part. no way im transporting it for just that part.
carhartt56
Bronze Member
I have the same problem ! It works as it is suposed to 95% of the time . One turn of the key to the off position and then back on usually corrects things . Not shure if its the relay or maybe the ignition sw . I mentioned it to my dealer , and he made a comment about them having some bad ignition swithes . The next time it happens I will have to get my meter out and trace it back , if I remember not to shut it off .
DK40SE
DK40SE
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
I talked to my dealer, and he told me that Kioti was having some problems with engine stop/fuel shutoff relay (40 amp) and he is going to go ahead and ship me out a new one. I didnt want to come all the way in with the tractor just for that. He actually told me that he would come out and install it at no cost, but thats something i could do myself.
Last edited:
tnewbern
Bronze Member
I doubt this is the ignition switch. The "Engine Stop Solenoid" is a dual coil device. The ignition switch energizes the hold (low current) coil the entire time its on. The display control energizes the pull-in (high current) coil for 1 second after the ignition switch is truned on.
The high current pull-in coil is what makes the click and opens the solenoid. This is the circuit the relay on the firewall operates. It could be either the relay, solenoid or display unit that is failing. My money is on the solenoid I can hear the relay click over but not the solenoid when this occurs. I will try and verify this with a meter in the morning.
If you open the hood and stand on the right side of the tractor when you turn on the switch you can hear this much better. Do not start your tractor from outside the operator platform as it is not safe. You should never start a machine when you are not in the operators seat. Sorry had to say it.
The high current pull-in coil is what makes the click and opens the solenoid. This is the circuit the relay on the firewall operates. It could be either the relay, solenoid or display unit that is failing. My money is on the solenoid I can hear the relay click over but not the solenoid when this occurs. I will try and verify this with a meter in the morning.
If you open the hood and stand on the right side of the tractor when you turn on the switch you can hear this much better. Do not start your tractor from outside the operator platform as it is not safe. You should never start a machine when you are not in the operators seat. Sorry had to say it.
tnewbern
Bronze Member
Wow this thread is going quick. grsthegreat I am not sure where the (70 amp) came from. The high current (pull-in) coil is 32A and the low current (hold) coil is 0.77A according to the service manual.
I don't believe the solenoid is faulty rather its sticking. None the less it should be replaced and I am glad to hear your dealer is helping. I will ping my guy and see if he would be as kind and send one my way.
Tom
I don't believe the solenoid is faulty rather its sticking. None the less it should be replaced and I am glad to hear your dealer is helping. I will ping my guy and see if he would be as kind and send one my way.
Tom
tnewbern
Bronze Member
Ok, I see where that came from and its the wrong relay. The 70A relay is for the preheat (glow plug) circuit the one in the center. The engine stop relay is the inner most one of the 3 on the firewall. This is a 30/20A relay 5P and color blue on my tractor.
Unless of course he ment the preheat relay.
Unless of course he ment the preheat relay.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
I see that Pats site sells the relay for $11.11
part #2
http://www.patspower.com/pages/oemp...01-18|~DK45SEHC-M-ELECTRICAL/0118DK45SEHC0085
part #2
http://www.patspower.com/pages/oemp...01-18|~DK45SEHC-M-ELECTRICAL/0118DK45SEHC0085
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
your right.....its 40 amps...my fingers suck at typing
But as usual, the Kioti parts manual specifies a different part number than the service manual, which is also different than the one thats on my tractor..... gotta love it. Oh well, its an easy fix and ill wait till the part arrives later this week. It has been not starting maybe 1 time out of 5-6, and all i had to do was turn off the key and try again, then it usually worked. but i dont want any problems in the winter, so ill fix it now.
dennis52
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
- Messages
- 323
- Location
- Queensland Australia
- Tractor
- Kioti DS4510HS , Kubota B7100
The engine stop solenoid on my new DS4510HS failed a few hours after delivery. Started fine about twenty times that day, then failed completely.
I identified the problem by finding the stop solenoid 10 amp fuse had blown and kept blowing when I replaced it. The solenoid itself got hot.
The dealer delivered and replaced it within 12 hours and said that this was not an uncommon problem in new machines but once replaced, then they did not find that customers had further problems.
I guess that sitting all that time on the delivery blocks and in containers contribute to the problem.
Anyway after 130 hours (or 4 months) it has started first time every time .
My tractor was made in 2010 so I am not sure if they now have an upgraded solenoid or not but the replacement one looked exactly the same.
Not one other thing has gone wrong with the tractor so I am pretty happy.
If it fails completely and you want to get it back to the shed, you can easily remove the solenoid (and seal the housing with a small rag or something to stop the diesel splashing out) and the tractor will start.
To stop it just push your finger into the housing against a rod and that will turn the engine off.
I identified the problem by finding the stop solenoid 10 amp fuse had blown and kept blowing when I replaced it. The solenoid itself got hot.
The dealer delivered and replaced it within 12 hours and said that this was not an uncommon problem in new machines but once replaced, then they did not find that customers had further problems.
I guess that sitting all that time on the delivery blocks and in containers contribute to the problem.
Anyway after 130 hours (or 4 months) it has started first time every time .
My tractor was made in 2010 so I am not sure if they now have an upgraded solenoid or not but the replacement one looked exactly the same.
Not one other thing has gone wrong with the tractor so I am pretty happy.
If it fails completely and you want to get it back to the shed, you can easily remove the solenoid (and seal the housing with a small rag or something to stop the diesel splashing out) and the tractor will start.
To stop it just push your finger into the housing against a rod and that will turn the engine off.
