KAMA 454 engine dies when warm...

[Bob Rooks]

That's one of those baby Racor's and it possibly has one of the 3µ coalescing elements in it which won't pass water, and bugs will plug it in a New York second. Unfortunately it's a cartridge filter so you can't inspect the element. Check the screen in the top of your sediment bowl.
The same thing I said about running out of fuel and the bowl remains full also applies to the Racor filters.

 

[greg_g]

Take that filter out of the loop for a test run.

Chris, you may not realize doing that will introduce unfiltered fuel to the injection pump. That after-market spin-on assembly has been bolted in place of the OE cartridge filter assembly.

That said, the problem could be with the spin on filter itself - specifically with the bypass valve. When removing the original assembly, the original bypass capability went with it. That gray spin-on cartridge may have the wrong kind of bypass valve for your fuel pressure. Or maybe it just failed, and the filter itself needs replacing.

//greg//

 

[Diamondpilot]

Yea Greg, I did not realize there was a filter there to start with. I guess the best thing to do would be set up another fuel tank to feed the injector pump directly, bypassing he filter. That way you know the fuel is clean and you are eliminating all the hidden in hose screens and possibility of a collapsed hose.

Chris

 

[rhallman]

Here is the latest...

Changed to Injector oil...Fuel filter...Cleaned the bowl screen...replaced all fuel lines....When removing the fuel lines all had fuel running out. Ran the 454 for about 20 minutes and it died. Cooled down started right up....5 minutes later it died. This really is looking like a tempeture issue. I pulled the lines off the injector pump that go to the injectors and I have fuel spitting out when I crank the engine. I also pulled the main lines going to the Injector pump and I had fuel running out right after it died.

Right before it died the last time I had the RPM's low and they would not stay stable. Would rev high and low a few hundred RPM's....then seemed to just die. Are there other places like the govenor I can check.....or am I getting to the point that I need to have the injector pump replaced?

Thanks..

 

[rhallman]

Ok...Seems very much temp related now. When the tractor died, I sprayed cold water on the injector pump and I heard a click. I then tried to start the engine and it started right up. A minute or two of cold water each time on the pump cleared the problem with a click and then started no problem until it died again.

I also noticed the acceleration seems to become less responsive and "spongey" before it dies.

Thanks..

 

[Rich Waugh]

Sounds like you've done a pretty good job of ferreting out the root of the problem. Apparently, when your governor warms up something inside it starts to bind up. When you cool it down, it suddenly frees itself up and you hear that "click" when it moves back into position. Since you say the injectors are delivering fuel even when it won't run, that makes me think it's the governor anyway.

Have you really thoroughly flushed out the whole injector/governor assembly? You know, drain the oil, run some white kerosene in it for a few minutes and drain again, refill with new oil? I might even run a bit of carburetor/injector cleaner in with the kero. Something is sticking when it warms up and maybe a really good cleaning will get it the room it needs to stay loose when warm.

Good luck with it!

 

[Bob Rooks]

At this point I will revert to my earlier suspicion of a weak/broken buffer or compensator spring in the governor. Another possibility is a detached flyweight.
The oil level in a governor is very important, almost critical. If the oil level is too high the flyweights will hit it, and possibly damage them and other components, AND aerate the oil. And we all know the effects of aerated oil.

 

[rhallman]

Does anyone have a pic of where the govenor is on the pump or the spring you are talking about? Are these internal to the Inhector Pump?

Ill also flush the Injector pump again and refill with 30w ND oil.

Thanks...

 

[Rich Waugh]

I don't have a picture handy, but on my 304 with the TY395i-3 engine he governor part of the injector pump is on the right hand side as you are looking at it, the part where the throttle linkage attaches.

On some of the Chinese injector pump assemblies, there are two drains for the thing - one on the bottom of the governor and one on the bottom of the pump itself. The total oil volume is about twenty ounces. A number of guys have missed that second drain plug and drained only half the assembly so it only took ten or so ounces to fill it. (My pump assembly only seems to have one drain plug for some reason.) If you happen to have missed the other drain on yours, you might still have old oil in the governor part. There is only one fill point, by the way, the breather cap thingy on top of the pump. The oil spills over from one side to the other when filling, but has to be drained separately to get it all out.

If it is something amiss inside the governor like Bob suggested it might be, I think the conventional wisdom is that you really need an expert to do any messing around inside the governor due to the precise clearances and need for exact settings.

Don't know if this helps or not, but there it is. Once again, best of luck with it.

Rich

 

[bluechip]

I stock that pump. I have had customers pay more to have one rebuilt than the new one cost. but before you spend the money, I would change the oil in the pump again, use 10w30 oil. use fuel additive and see if you can free up whatever is sticking. How hot is the pump getting? can you put your hand on it after the engine dies. Maybe there is a bad bearning inside causing excessive heat, I would not think enough engine heat would be developed and transfered to the pump to cause a bind, but it does seem you have the problem pegged to the pump.

 

[Transit]

If you remove the pump, take pictures first and make note of any timing marks.
If not your going to have a hard time getting it all back together.

 

[rhallman]

BlueChip...The pump doesnt seem to get very hot. I can put my hand on it with no problem. Ill try cleaning it again this morning....But in the end I may be buying a new one from you.

Any pics on doing the replacement so I dont mess up the timing marks?

Thanks...

 

[Smalljobs]

If this were mine, I'd consider carefully marking/photographing everything and taking the governor apart to look for any kind of clue such as broken springs, wear, sticking parts, chips/shavings, etc. I'd do it with clean tools, good lighting, and a clean indoor workspace. Maybe something obvious might show up.

I'd first try to get a feel for the actual temperature of the governor at quitting time. One of those digital BBQ food thermometer might do it. Suppose it quits at 150F. I'd bring it in the house and look for smooth operation of the shaft. Then I'd put it in the oven at perhaps 100F and check it again and then 125F and so on. Maybe something is sticking at a given temperature. Then I would see if something like WD-40 would help. If no luck, I'd proceed to take it apart.

 

[Smalljobs]

An after thought is in case there is fuel inside the governor, I would simply double bag it in two locking freezer bags and slowly heat in a pan of warm water.

 

[Bob Rooks]

The problem doesn't seem to be with the fuel injection pumps because the engine accelerates and decelerates without any problem.
The governor and injector pump assembly are two distinctly different and separate mechanisims that are bolted together. The hand throttle controls the governor setting to a pre determined speed, the governor moves the injector pump rack gear in and out against the sector gears on the pump pistons, rotating them in conjunction with the cam lift. There is no mechanical connection between the hand throtle and the injector pump rack.
I speculate that if the issue were actually temperature related then there are close tolerance issues in the governor possibly in the flyweight carrier.
On some engines it is possible to remove the governor from the fuel injection pump assembly without removing it from the engine, thus not disturbing any timing settings. This type of operation is best left to a skilled technician, but if you feel confident then have at it.