Joined the red club!

[ray66v]

Glad you at least have the problem solved.

It would be great if you can offer advice in the future, on diagnosing hydraulic issues.

 

[Dmacleo]

It's a blessing and a curse being handy, seems everything likes to break around you haha.

been there done that.
jack of all trades master of none.
friends can get pissy if you choose NOT to wire their outbuildings (code changes alone for separately derived power systems...eg portable generators can be iffy), fix their plumbing,work on their cars.
whatever.

 

[Whitbread]

As my side tree work has gotten to be more and more, I needed more of a chipper than my woodmaxx wm8m. Its been great, but clearly isn't a fair comparison to a commercial duty. I stumbled onto a vermeer bc906 for a fair price a reasonable distance away. Yes, I'm well aware a bc606 would've been a better match on paper, but as long as the 3pt will lift the 906 (on paper it will), we're keeping the big guy. I have to get it cut off the trailer this week to know 100%.

As I'm a bit shy of the minimum recommended hp and buying a new tractor isn't in the cards, it's time to wake the tractor up. I own a diesel performance business so I'm well aware of the risks and this will be approached in a scientific manner. Now onto some napkin math.

This 1.7L common rail turbo engine is only making 52lbft/L in factory form in the 1740m. Per shibaura's catalog, the intercooled version of this engine is 66lbft/L. A stock vw 1.9L diesel from 1996 is making 79lbft/L so I think it's safe to say there's significant room for safe improvement with the modern technology this tractor has compared to the dinosaur vw. The equivalent common rail stock vw diesel makes 118lbft/L.

The goal is to basically match the old tech vw at ~75Lbft/L which should give me ~50hp at the pto.

The hoped perfect plan is to add the 10.5"x8.5"x1.25" Bell intercooler and have a good friend adjust the tune while monitoring egt on a pto dyno. If needed, I'll make a straight exhaust pipe to remove the doc to see if it's a restriction and drops egts. If absolutely necessary, I'll add a second turbo for a baby set of compounds where the doc currently resides. I really don't think I'll need to go that far given the extremely modest goals. Im not worried about hurting anything in the driveline as I never will plow or mow a field. These mods are solely for pto power. Stay tuned for fun.

 

[Hay Dude]

Welllll, everything has been fantastic until the other day. I noticed that I couldn't pick up the blower at idle anymore. Steering and pto clutch operation was totally normal. So onto the diagnostic tests.


Fluid level good, clean (just changed when mid pto kit went on in December), and not foamy.

Pressure gauge showed 1200psi at idle and 1800psi max when stone cold. When hot, only 300psi and 1100psi. That eliminates a suction issue because it would be worse when cold.

Relief valve removed and inspected, nothing found. Relief adjustment bottomed out, no difference in pressure gauge readings.

Next test was a bungee cord pulling a rear remote lever deadheading at 1500rpm. After about 5 minutes, the suction line to the pump was warm and steering discharge line was quite warm. Rear hydraulic discharge line was stone cold coming off the pump. Veryyyy interesting. Seems that the pump is internally bypassing somehow from the main hydraulic side into the steering side.

I tried like hell to contact Shimadzu directly to source a pump seal kit/parts availability, but it was absolutely useless. I called their USA office number and every extension went right to voicemail and all vm boxes were full.

So sadly, I had to call the dealer and order a pump and all the associated seals for $1034 shipped. I asked if i could return the pump in case my diagnosis was incorrect and they said yes as long as i didn't open it. Silly me, I ASSumed the whole tractor was under the 5 year warranty. But that's only the drive train, everything else is only a 2 year as I found out.

I tore into the tractor today (which was a giant pain in the rear) and pulled the pump. Tearing the pump down, it definitely was the issue. The shaft bushings on either side of lower gear on the main chamber were destroyed. The excess clearance between the shaft/bushings were letting hydraulic pressure escape and travel through the hollow lower shaft of the steering side of the pump and into its discharge line. I'm just happy to have actually found the smoking gun.

Pulling the strainer, there was definitely metallic junk stuck to it. So the cavity was cleaned out and a new strainer installed along with a new spin on filter. The 15 hour old oil will get pumped through a 20 micron filter on its way back into the tractor.
View attachment 785703View attachment 785704View attachment 785705View attachment 785706View attachment 785707View attachment 785708

Had same problem on my JCB Fast Trac. It was a $7,000 Rexroth aluminum pump. The shaft bushings were able to move in the aluminum housing and took the pump out. Not a big fan of aluminum pumps or housings anymore.

I wonder if previous owner overheated the pump/hydraulic fluid?

My Massey 7495

 

[deezler]

The goal is to basically match the old tech vw at ~75Lbft/L which should give me ~50hp at the pto.

The hoped perfect plan is to add the 10.5"x8.5"x1.25" Bell intercooler and have a good friend adjust the tune while monitoring egt on a pto dyno. If needed, I'll make a straight exhaust pipe to remove the doc to see if it's a restriction and drops egts. If absolutely necessary, I'll add a second turbo for a baby set of compounds where the doc currently resides. These mods are solely for pto power. Stay tuned for fun.

Niiiice. Thanks in advance for sharing as you go through this process. You gotta fab up a question mark downpipe for it like you did for my ALH back in.... 2009? I forget what year it was but definitely long ago.

Is the intercooler going to have a fan? Or sit by the radiator? If no airflow I could see it heatsoaking and being pretty pointless.

Who is flash tuning Massey tractors ?!? And can they also do a siemens ECU on a Kioti? lol.

 

[kenmbz]

As my side tree work has gotten to be more and more, I needed more of a chipper than my woodmaxx wm8m. Its been great, but clearly isn't a fair comparison to a commercial duty. I stumbled onto a vermeer bc906 for a fair price a reasonable distance away. Yes, I'm well aware a bc606 would've been a better match on paper, but as long as the 3pt will lift the 906 (on paper it will), we're keeping the big guy. I have to get it cut off the trailer this week to know 100%.

As I'm a bit shy of the minimum recommended hp and buying a new tractor isn't in the cards, it's time to wake the tractor up. I own a diesel performance business so I'm well aware of the risks and this will be approached in a scientific manner. Now onto some napkin math.

This 1.7L common rail turbo engine is only making 52lbft/L in factory form in the 1740m. Per shibaura's catalog, the intercooled version of this engine is 66lbft/L. A stock vw 1.9L diesel from 1996 is making 79lbft/L so I think it's safe to say there's significant room for safe improvement with the modern technology this tractor has compared to the dinosaur vw. The equivalent common rail stock vw diesel makes 118lbft/L.

The goal is to basically match the old tech vw at ~75Lbft/L which should give me ~50hp at the pto.

The hoped perfect plan is to add the 10.5"x8.5"x1.25" Bell intercooler and have a good friend adjust the tune while monitoring egt on a pto dyno. If needed, I'll make a straight exhaust pipe to remove the doc to see if it's a restriction and drops egts. If absolutely necessary, I'll add a second turbo for a baby set of compounds where the doc currently resides. I really don't think I'll need to go that far given the extremely modest goals. Im not worried about hurting anything in the driveline as I never will plow or mow a field. These mods are solely for pto power. Stay tuned for fun. View attachment 811669

Sounds interesting, wonder if the PTO drive will be able to take it as the spec sheet says 53HP for the chipper minimum. Also wonder about enough lube in the engine and how to get the heat out of the cooler. And hydraulic heat and ... keep us updated, seems like a fun project.

 

[Whitbread]

Niiiice. Thanks in advance for sharing as you go through this process. You gotta fab up a question mark downpipe for it like you did for my ALH back in.... 2009? I forget what year it was but definitely long ago.

Is the intercooler going to have a fan? Or sit by the radiator? If no airflow I could see it heatsoaking and being pretty pointless.

Who is flash tuning Massey tractors ?!? And can they also do a siemens ECU on a Kioti? lol.

Haha, no it won't get a question mark downpipe, it will be tig welded stainless if I have to though.

The intercooler will be out front of the current cooling pack so the engine fan will pull air through it. I'm going to weld bungs on the in/out pipes for a thermocouple to measure the delta also.

One of my euro tuner friends is tuning the ecu for me. I assume they could do a siemens on a kioti...? This is a denso ecu.

Sounds interesting, wonder if the PTO drive will be able to take it as the spec sheet says 53HP for the chipper minimum. Also wonder about enough lube in the engine and how to get the heat out of the cooler. And hydraulic heat and ... keep us updated, seems like a fun project.

Considering the size of the gears I saw up in the transmission case when I put the mid pto on (mid pto bolts to bottom of trans case), I'm not concerned with hurting them. The pto shaft that came with the chipper has a slip clutch on it so in theory it's a pretty safe setup there also.

Since there will be zero load on the tractor hydraulic system running the chipper, I see no reason for any additional heat to be made there. Yes there will be increased oil and coolant heat to be dissipated, but again it will be monitored and addressed as necessary.

Believe me, I'd love to just sell the 1740m and buy a 1760m and call it a day with a 5-8hp tune, but the only two used examples are $45k on tractorhouse and I doubt my mid pto and front mount blower would work on them. So that's a no go.

 

[Whitbread]

Got the intercooler setup done just in time for 5 tree jobs over the next few weeks. It was a pain in the arse to make it all fit perfect and not rub anywhere. View attachment 821488View attachment 821489

View attachment 821589

 

[JWR]

OMG, that is a major mod.

 

[deezler]

Nice. You had that much room between the air filter canister and radiator already?

Hey it looks like most of your pics did not load, FYI. More pics!!